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Multiple Universes


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#1    eric77

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 05:48 PM

Scientists seem to consider the possiblity of Mulitple Universes as real, and more plausible than God.

My question is, if the universe branches off at each choice we make (as many believe), where is the energy that is creating the new universe coming from?

And how does the universe know how to branch, or what laws govern it, if it is not aware?

To me, however unlikely God is, multiple universes seem even more far fetched.


#2    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 12:39 AM

the term 'multiple universes' is a bit absurd. its more like multiple realities.
the term universe means essentialy, all that there is.

there is not any extra energy necessary to create multiple branching realities, they all exist in the same place. When an electron is split in two, it makes 2 equal electrons with the same spin. seperate the two, as far as you like, and reverse the spin of one. the other will follow suit instantaneously. suggesting that anywhere you go in the universe is essentially the same place.

QUOTE
And how does the universe know how to branch, or what laws govern it, if it is not aware?

who says its not aware? the universe does not know how to branch off into other realities. it dosent need to. rather the realities branch off each other and stay contained within the universe.


If what you're referring to is the 'multiverse' posed by quantum physics, that deals with 'light horizons' a point which we cannot see beyond because light beyond that point has yet to reach us. the theory is that beyond the horizon lies a universe exactly like ours down to each individual, and beyond their horizon, the same, and so on and so on...
it hasnt been proven other than theoreticaly, and i think even that is a bit more credit than the theory deserves.


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#3    Chauncy

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 12:48 AM

QUOTE
Scientists seem to consider the possiblity of Mulitple Universes as real, and more plausible than God


I can't get my mind around the idea of multiple universes, to me it would just be the same universe, where as any part of it is still a component of the whole structure.

QUOTE
who says its not aware? the universe does not know how to branch off into other realities. it dosent need to. rather the realities branch off each other and stay contained within the universe


If there were these 'other' realities and one of us traveled there, it would be reality to the person there. So I see these 'other' realities as again being a part of the whole structure.


As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost and science can never regress.
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#4    Sum1

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 01:46 AM

A great resource for information on this is the book: The Universe in a Nutshell by Stephen Hawking. I have read most of this book and it is fasinating!

Just because your paranoid, dont mean there not after u - kurt cobain

#5    The Gryphon

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 03:10 AM

Right on Sum 1  thumbsup.gif Hawking explains multipes really well. Universes don't necessarily have to branch.
Has anyone ever seen a ballistic test where a gun's bullet is fired into ballistic gelatin? If the over-universe was the gelatin (energy matrix) and all the cavities blown into it were universes unto themselves (void, matter and bits of energy floating around) none of the universes branch, some cross, some end by tapering down remaining closed, some blow out the end remaining open etc, etc many different types beside each other.
Kinda the easy way to imagine it.

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#6    Chauncy

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 03:37 AM

QUOTE
Has anyone ever seen a ballistic test where a gun's bullet is fired into ballistic gelatin? If the over-universe was the gelatin (energy matrix) and all the cavities blown into it were universes unto themselves (void, matter and bits of energy floating around) none of the universes branch, some cross, some end by tapering down remaining closed, some blow out the end remaining open etc, etc many different types beside each other


I saw that balistics gelatin on "Myth Busters" they molded it to the shape of a human torso and fired homemade bullets at it.....very nifty!!

Since all these branches and off shoots are apart of the same mass then they are in fact the same universe as I would see it.....they were also created from the same striking force, in this case the bullet.?
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#7    The Gryphon

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 05:12 AM

True, now imagine a larger block with many holes blown into it, through it, etc all side by side. As in your picture Chauncy that could be a universe still expanding, it may continue and bell out to the other side creating an open one, or it may just taper down and end creating a closed one. Some may even have connecting branches and such! grin2.gif  

Edited by The Gryphon, 25 May 2004 - 05:14 AM.

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#8    Chauncy

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 05:30 AM

QUOTE
Some may even have connecting branches and such!


So the picture I showed would be one universe?

Other 'bullets' would create other universes?

So if as we were sitting here another bullet was fired and one of those branches intersected ours, would we notice?....or do you think it would destroy us? or are all the bullets already fired?

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Edited by Chauncy, 25 May 2004 - 05:31 AM.

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#9    The Gryphon

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 04:50 PM

The way I understand it is the creation of universes may be an ongoing affair throught the over verse. They mention quite abit about how multiple universes may exist beside each other, but didn't really want to get into how they may actually touch, merge, or cross. But using the gelatin example it's obvious that that is a possibilty. I mean look at examples in our universe where galaxies are colliding and crossing through each other. Universes would be doing it on a much larger scale and perhaps on different wavelengths or bands of some energy we haven't even experienced yet! wacko.gif

I do believe at the start of this thread that there may be some confusion between "multiple universes" and  "divergent timelines"

divergent timelines might occur within a universe, but then this is a whole different issue from physical universes, and may not exist at all. I think the sci-fi guy who first thought of it did science a disfavor by calling divergent timelines 'other universes.'

Edited by The Gryphon, 25 May 2004 - 04:56 PM.

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remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
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#10    Chauncy

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 05:25 PM

QUOTE
Universes would be doing it on a much larger scale and perhaps on different wavelengths or bands of some energy we haven't even experienced yet!


This I'm very well intune with, there most definetly is some type of energy or wavelength that we have yet to encounter. The essence of this unknown energy may very well lay within the muddied waters of cold fusion , zero point energy, crop circles, the making of the pyramids, Atlantis, worm-holes, black-holes.

The pursuance of String Theory may allow us to find this understanding.
http://superstringtheory.com/

There is a satellite that has been positioned over the North Pole to help elucidate Einstien's theories...I still can't believe we may be adding an addition to E=MC2
http://www.gravityprobeb.com/

As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost and science can never regress.
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#11    The Gryphon

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 07:45 PM

QUOTE (Chauncy @ May 25 2004, 06:25 PM)
[QUOTE]There is a satellite that has been positioned over the North Pole to help elucidate Einstien's theories...I still can't believe we may be adding an addition to E=MC2
http://www.gravityprobeb.com/

That's what were here for! thumbsup.gif  It seems to be all falling together especially if you think of an oververse as an energy matrix. Recent threads and article are showing that energy can create matter, that solves the problem about what and where a singularity came from

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remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
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#12    Chauncy

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 09:53 PM

QUOTE
That's what were here for!


Progression! thumbsup.gif

The beauty of science I suppose, it never gets stagnate. What do you think the gravity probe is going to find? The website I gave you will keep us updated.

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#13    The Gryphon

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 10:39 PM

Thanks for those websites thumbsup.gif I've found others previously and it will take me some time to get throught them. I'm hoping Everything Einstien calculated will be proved true without a glitch. The scientific community doesn't need anyhting jarring right now cause I think other studies are on the verge of some important stuff. They're close to having the TOE (theory of everything).
On the other hand a good shake up may cause a discover in another field?
Like I said that's what we're here for.

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remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
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#14    Chauncy

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 11:09 PM

QUOTE
I'm hoping Everything Einstien calculated will be proved true without a glitch.


Me too, although some elaboration may be nice. Maybe he was missing a key factor. In the context that we may need to add something to his original equation
so it would be [E=Mc2+yada,yada]. We've been kind of locked into a certain mentality because this is all we have been able to discern from our environment. This Gravity Probe  may get us over this plateau.

I think a good way to look at it is no matter what, if Einstien was right or wrong or partially right, WE are still gonna learn something! And like you said "That's what we are here for"



As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost and science can never regress.
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#15    eric77

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 12:13 AM

Thanks for your responses. And I have read Stephen Hawkings, and many others. I like to look at the skeptical side of things, as well as the spiritual.

The thing is, if the universe branches, everything would have to be copied because small choices have big effects. What is copying it? And what role does the concious observer play in this? Could the universe exist if there was no conciousness to observe it?





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