[Xibalba]

I have never seen anybody exhibit psychic powers at any point in my life. I personally do not know of anybody who has ever witnessed psychic powers either. In fact, it is in my understanding that the vast majority of civilized people have not in any way experienced anything paranormal. And, needless to say, the scientific establishment itself has thus far not encountered anything supernatural too, as those who do claim to have psychic abilities have consistently been proven to be liars or mentally unstable.


So what's the deal here? Are the real people with psionic powers in hiding, like in Heroes or Harry Potter? Are they afraid of 'normal' people and choose not to display their powers for the world to see in case they get locked up and experimented on? Are they just trying to live normal lives and avoiding the use of supernatural abilities so that they can go about their days without harassment? (How ironic then that most 'normal' people actually want powers!) Are they all living underground or in a magical city under the sea, having no need to come into contact with the 'normal' world? Are they all secretly in the employ of various governments around the world, committing psychic espionage and assassinations in exchange for anonymity? Is it against their wizardry laws to expose themselves in public? (!)

You'd think people with psychic abilities would be more prominent in the public eye. They have an advantage over us, and time and again throughout history, those with an advantage over others seize power and take control. Is Barack Obama secretly some kind of mind reader? Why do I have to sit and watch chat shows featuring brainless celebrities who wouldn't know a good deed if a Nobel Peace prize fell on their head when I could instead be watching you juggle flaming swords with your mind? Please clarify why Mr 'I can see the future in my tea cup' is actually an IT consultant instead of Mr 'I'm insanely rich because I can predict the lottery?'

[aquatus1]

One of the greatest weaknesses of psychic phenomena is that it is virtually indistinguishable from the same phenomena occurring by chance.

[Paranormalcy]

That's true, and the same with some "magic(k)", if you do it right, supposedly, you can't tell, it's just what seems like significant coincidence that somehow seems to relate to what you were trying to do. I'd like to point to Rhine's research on psi but apparently there was fraud going on during all the trials, which is disappointing, as I really liked his scientific approach.

[Mr Walker]

Xibalba, on 14 October 2009 - 06:25 AM, said:

I have never seen anybody exhibit psychic powers at any point in my life. I personally do not know of anybody who has ever witnessed psychic powers either. In fact, it is in my understanding that the vast majority of civilized people have not in any way experienced anything paranormal. And, needless to say, the scientific establishment itself has thus far not encountered anything supernatural too, as those who do claim to have psychic abilities have consistently been proven to be liars or mentally unstable.


So what's the deal here? Are the real people with psionic powers in hiding, like in Heroes or Harry Potter? Are they afraid of 'normal' people and choose not to display their powers for the world to see in case they get locked up and experimented on? Are they just trying to live normal lives and avoiding the use of supernatural abilities so that they can go about their days without harassment? (How ironic then that most 'normal' people actually want powers!) Are they all living underground or in a magical city under the sea, having no need to come into contact with the 'normal' world? Are they all secretly in the employ of various governments around the world, committing psychic espionage and assassinations in exchange for anonymity? Is it against their wizardry laws to expose themselves in public? (!)

You'd think people with psychic abilities would be more prominent in the public eye. They have an advantage over us, and time and again throughout history, those with an advantage over others seize power and take control. Is Barack Obama secretly some kind of mind reader? Why do I have to sit and watch chat shows featuring brainless celebrities who wouldn't know a good deed if a Nobel Peace prize fell on their head when I could instead be watching you juggle flaming swords with your mind? Please clarify why Mr 'I can see the future in my tea cup' is actually an IT consultant instead of Mr 'I'm insanely rich because I can predict the lottery?'

I can 0nly speak for myself here. All my life i have exhibited what may be called paranormal abilities. These are sporadic and not controllable by me, but very real. As a teenager i found the fear they engendered if displayed to be a good reason to keep them to myself(as a very young child i thoughtthey were simply part of every humans existence.) My parents didnot correct me. I found out much later this was because my mothers family had a long history of such abilities . They accepted them, but did not speak of them. As an adult i have been a teacher of adolescents for 35 years. In tha t time many students and others have witnessed me do weird and impossible things. (when you spend a large part of your life in front of an audience this is inevitable) Because i dont really control these abilities they sometimes occur before i can prevent them.

The responses have ranged from physically running away in fear, to asking me for Psychic help. So there are hundreds of people who can testify to my psychic abilities. Some probably think they are coincidences, some might be skeptical but open minded, and some are quite illogically and fanatically "believers"

I am talked about by students and in the staff room at times, but it is generally just acceped as who i am as part of a wider and generally nice guy. I use these abilities to help people where i can, and this is recognised. Having said all this, they are not daily occurences and because i cant control or make them happen, i cant always help people.
From my experiences, and a life time of research, i have personally tried to construct a logical and rational explanation for these abilities, both inmy self and in humanity generally ,but that is too lengthy to go into here.

You can actually read a lot of studies on experiments by american university researchers including some sponsored by the cia and later darpa, which are indicative of psychic abilities in some people, and the soviets did a lot of work in the military application of psychic powers; but you are correct, in general these do not meet present scientific standards for proof. Whether that is because they are not amenable to this form of testing or not is debatable. Psychic abilities are a bit like intelligence. They are useful but not necesarily predictive of life success. They are only a small part of my life, and contribute only marginally to my wealth and happiness. But they are fascinating and provide a great deal of fun and interest
Finding lost objects is the most practical appication But travelling around the world in real time via obe is perhaps the most fun. It was spying on the neighbouring teenage girls as a boy, via obe that first made me realise how big a problem such abilities could be in real society, and taught me to kep schtum about them

Well, except for the time i asked a female colleague why she was wearing a pair of distinctive mens boxers to bed at night, and then had to explain that i had oserved this in the process of an obe. That is stil a source of mirth amongst my colleagues, although i have assured everyone that, as a gentleman, i would not deliberately spy on another person.
As i said, many such events are outside my conscious control (as yet anyway) This poor woman still checks her bedroom at night to see if she can detect my astral presence hovering around it. I can see both the funny and the serious side of this, and i am very lucky she has a wonderful sense of humour.

Most "normal" peole want such powers because they think they will be at their command/ control, and be of advantage to them. Neither of those beliefs is necessarily true in reality and thus peole with real powers often dont advertise them.

This post has been edited by Mr Walker: 14 October 2009 - 12:19 AM

[Xibalba]

It just seems so unrealistic that I can spend dozens of years on this planet, supposedly filled with the paranormal, and never once encounter it myself. Here we have two people who claim to have abilities but of course they can't control them, negating any possibility of recording the phenomena. There are plenty of people who claim to have absolute control over their powers too yet they can't prove it either. Sorry guys, but I'm going to have to assume your delusional or lying.

[Mr Walker]

Xibalba, on 15 October 2009 - 11:11 PM, said:

It just seems so unrealistic that I can spend dozens of years on this planet, supposedly filled with the paranormal, and never once encounter it myself. Here we have two people who claim to have abilities but of course they can't control them, negating any possibility of recording the phenomena. There are plenty of people who claim to have absolute control over their powers too yet they can't prove it either. Sorry guys, but I'm going to have to assume your delusional or lying.

I said i had no(or very little) conscious control over them. I didnt say they couldnt be recorded. The only thing which prevents them being recorded is their spontaneous nature. Soon i guess one of my students will whip out that cell phone hes not supposed to have at school and record one of them i will then put it on the internet and make my fame and fortune(not) I would confisctte the phone and remove every trace of the recording rather than allow it to become public evidence You really dont get it do you?
On the other hand my experiences are "recorded" in the minds/memories of dozens, if not hundreds of kids. Thats ok though, because its deniable to the wider world.

They wont really believe without proof and perhaps that for the best. As i said, i have had children and adults run out of the room from witnessing some of the weird things which happen to meor which i sometimes "do"

How would you feel, if you were in a room with me, and i just came out and gave you (word for word) a conversation you had with another person, in the privacy of your own home, or asked why you were wearing your PJ's inside out last night (and you had been)? Or if you had lost your phone/usb and i said "its ok its ........" and was spot on.

Or as one poor canadian exchange student asked "how could you describe the car in my barn under a tarpaulin. My father gave it to me as a graduation present . We are going to restore it when i go back to Canada next year. No one in Australia knows anything about it"

I had described the car exactly, without actually knowing what it was, because I had seen it via either reading her mind or obeing to her house in canada( I could also give her a perfect description of her house and barn from both and aerial and oblique views That included roofing material, the fact that the barn was clad in timber shakes and the little porch with a steep roof where you entered the front door. I also saw the lay out of garden and driveways although i did not recognise some of the plant species
Ps this was in the days before one could simply google such views but then i really didnt know where she lived, even though i had travelled there by obe the night before and witnessed all this(or else i had extracted the info somehow from her mind)

As to lying. Why bother? I came to UM originally, for answers and comparitive views, after a lifetime of such experiences.

Im 58 years old, I have no pathological need to justify myself or bignote myself. I am a sane, secure adult. I write so that others may hear my experiences and perhaps consider some of the things which happen in their own lives.

If no one speaks of such things then, like you, many people are justifiably skeptical. But in the real world there are real dangers and problems with both discussing and displaying ones own experiences and "abilities." I found this most so as a child/ adolescent. As an adult, with status and power in my world, it is less so, but still quite tricky .

Ps If you talk to people around you, and listen without scoffing or judging, you might just find quite a few people who have their own stories to tell. How do you react to someone who tells you they have seen a ghost, for example?

This post has been edited by Mr Walker: 15 October 2009 - 02:08 PM

[maximaldecimal]

Hello resident Schitzo Jelly here Walker I'm gonna add you once I get done ere that was epic. I think Xibalba was kinda spot on though she was being sarcastic. Modern mental science teaches us that if you see shadow people or visions then you are crazy. However these same things fit into the realm of Psichic friends, Totemic avatars, and the various denizens of the other realms. If you see these things than you are crazy there all in your head and so its just you messing with yourself right. This cosmology is potentially harmfull in that the negative is seen as coming from within. It can be daunting to move past this point and so it is supressed. The potentials are dampned or cut off within the mind. Even if someone continues to cultivate one's inner voice it is in secret so as to avoid the ostracism of a cynical and skeptical world. Indeed it is my firm belief that not all the voices are mine! Although I'm getting better about ridding myself of negative thought and malignant voices it is a war in my head from time to time, a war in wich I am but a tool, and the worst part is there are no sides. All opinions must be expressed it is the tact and application of ethics which must remain paramount. Without accounting for dissenting opinion we provide the possibility for loosing the knowledge presented within the opinion expressed. It sucks being able to come up with three povs on a subject sometimes but I do not think this designates multiples for all my accepted opinions are well consolidated into a whole. Sometimes I talk with dead folks and imajine them talkin back. This doesn't neccisarilly mean I could do it on command It's just a way of pratin in m o pinion. I got three plausibles for David Carradine One suicide, two Gangsters lookin for payback for Bruce, three anybody seen a body c'mon. I don't necessarily think my delusions are proof positive of Phsicism in humans but I gotta keep a good skeptical profile so I can desmiss anything I say as a bad Joke.

This post has been edited by maximaldecimal: 15 October 2009 - 11:20 PM

[Mr Walker]

Thanks max. My rationale is that we should all keeep an open mind on everything.

Once a mind is closed, not only can no new idea or information get into it, but it refuses to analyse old info in new ways.

I guess ive been forced to this approach by al ife time of weird things, but it still seems to me, that even a person who lives an ordinary and mundane life would be best served to keep their mind open.

Science is a wonderful thing, and a useful tool. But it often contributes to people categorising things into real/unreal, possible/not possible.
(Science has a history of naming and categorising.)

The problem is that these things are not always fixed or completely established. There are, also, physically and metaphysically, "doors" between these worlds.
True science, what ever its methodology, also requires an absolutely open mind, free of fixed preconceptions, to be most effective.

[momentarylapseofreason]

I'm a firm believer in (some) psychic abilities. But many that claim to have them do not or they just think they do.

The gullibility and the phonies ruin alot of the credibility of these genuine people/ with genuine abilities (which are just natural)

I just can't explain what it is, how it works, why it happens or what it all means

This post has been edited by momentarylapseofreason: 16 October 2009 - 01:19 AM

[momentarylapseofreason]

Xibalba, on 13 October 2009 - 08:55 PM, said:

I have never seen anybody exhibit psychic powers at any point in my life. I personally do not know of anybody who has ever witnessed psychic powers either. In fact, it is in my understanding that the vast majority of civilized people have not in any way experienced anything paranormal. And, needless to say, the scientific establishment itself has thus far not encountered anything supernatural too, as those who do claim to have psychic abilities have consistently been proven to be liars or mentally unstable.


So what's the deal here? Are the real people with psionic powers in hiding, like in Heroes or Harry Potter? Are they afraid of 'normal' people and choose not to display their powers for the world to see in case they get locked up and experimented on? Are they just trying to live normal lives and avoiding the use of supernatural abilities so that they can go about their days without harassment? (How ironic then that most 'normal' people actually want powers!) Are they all living underground or in a magical city under the sea, having no need to come into contact with the 'normal' world? Are they all secretly in the employ of various governments around the world, committing psychic espionage and assassinations in exchange for anonymity? Is it against their wizardry laws to expose themselves in public? (!)

You'd think people with psychic abilities would be more prominent in the public eye. They have an advantage over us, and time and again throughout history, those with an advantage over others seize power and take control. Is Barack Obama secretly some kind of mind reader? Why do I have to sit and watch chat shows featuring brainless celebrities who wouldn't know a good deed if a Nobel Peace prize fell on their head when I could instead be watching you juggle flaming swords with your mind? Please clarify why Mr 'I can see the future in my tea cup' is actually an IT consultant instead of Mr 'I'm insanely rich because I can predict the lottery?'

It will only be "obvious" if you experience it yourself and how you choose to interpret it, or experience it with others all together.(to insure it's not your imagination or delusion) Many people "read" too much into common occurences.

[sam12six]

Xibalba, on 13 October 2009 - 03:55 PM, said:

I have never seen anybody exhibit psychic powers at any point in my life. I personally do not know of anybody who has ever witnessed psychic powers either. In fact, it is in my understanding that the vast majority of civilized people have not in any way experienced anything paranormal. And, needless to say, the scientific establishment itself has thus far not encountered anything supernatural too, as those who do claim to have psychic abilities have consistently been proven to be liars or mentally unstable.

I agree with what you're saying, but science has encountered many paranormal things. Lightning was once what the gods threw around when they got pissed off. Anything science can't measure/recreate is paranormal.

Xibalba, on 13 October 2009 - 03:55 PM, said:

So what's the deal here? Are the real people with psionic powers in hiding, like in Heroes or Harry Potter? Are they afraid of 'normal' people and choose not to display their powers for the world to see in case they get locked up and experimented on? Are they just trying to live normal lives and avoiding the use of supernatural abilities so that they can go about their days without harassment? (How ironic then that most 'normal' people actually want powers!) Are they all living underground or in a magical city under the sea, having no need to come into contact with the 'normal' world? Are they all secretly in the employ of various governments around the world, committing psychic espionage and assassinations in exchange for anonymity? Is it against their wizardry laws to expose themselves in public? (!)

You'd think people with psychic abilities would be more prominent in the public eye. They have an advantage over us, and time and again throughout history, those with an advantage over others seize power and take control. Is Barack Obama secretly some kind of mind reader? Why do I have to sit and watch chat shows featuring brainless celebrities who wouldn't know a good deed if a Nobel Peace prize fell on their head when I could instead be watching you juggle flaming swords with your mind? Please clarify why Mr 'I can see the future in my tea cup' is actually an IT consultant instead of Mr 'I'm insanely rich because I can predict the lottery?'

This I agree with completely. Assuming psychic powers are real, I would personally keep them a secret since an unseen advantage is a powerful thing. On the other hand, there are obviously a lot of people (hell, a lot just on this forum) who are proudly proclaiming both their amazing abilities and their control over those abilities. If any of these braggarts were telling the truth, they'd make a fortune just showing what they can do.

Mr Walker, on 13 October 2009 - 08:14 PM, said:

I can 0nly speak for myself here. All my life i have exhibited what may be called paranormal abilities. These are sporadic and not controllable by me, but very real. As a teenager i found the fear they engendered if displayed to be a good reason to keep them to myself(as a very young child i thoughtthey were simply part of every humans existence.) My parents didnot correct me. I found out much later this was because my mothers family had a long history of such abilities . They accepted them, but did not speak of them. As an adult i have been a teacher of adolescents for 35 years. In tha t time many students and others have witnessed me do weird and impossible things. (when you spend a large part of your life in front of an audience this is inevitable) Because i dont really control these abilities they sometimes occur before i can prevent them.

The responses have ranged from physically running away in fear, to asking me for Psychic help. So there are hundreds of people who can testify to my psychic abilities. Some probably think they are coincidences, some might be skeptical but open minded, and some are quite illogically and fanatically "believers"

Unless your paranormal ability is doing the Exorcist head-spin or causing fear, why on earth would someone seeing you do something unusual run out of the room in fear? I guess I'm asking for more clarification of what your super power is. Is it only saying something strange (like your example of knowing about the covered car), or is it doing something weird (like dropping your drawers and running around the room flapping your arms singing, "I believe I can fly..." when you have an out-of-body experience)?

Mr Walker said:

-snip-

Finding lost objects is the most practical appication But travelling around the world in real time via obe is perhaps the most fun. It was spying on the neighbouring teenage girls as a boy, via obe that first made me realise how big a problem such abilities could be in real society, and taught me to kep schtum about them

So you chose not to use your powers to become perv-man. I applaud you. Wait...

Mr Walker, on 13 October 2009 - 08:14 PM, said:

Well, except for the time i asked a female colleague why she was wearing a pair of distinctive mens boxers to bed at night, and then had to explain that i had oserved this in the process of an obe.

We'll assume you got out-of-body-lost and ended up in some co-worker's bedroom watching her sleep instead of being perv-man...

Mr Walker, on 13 October 2009 - 08:14 PM, said:

That is stil a source of mirth amongst my colleagues, although i have assured everyone that, as a gentleman, i would not deliberately spy on another person.
As i said, many such events are outside my conscious control (as yet anyway) This poor woman still checks her bedroom at night to see if she can detect my astral presence hovering around it. I can see both the funny and the serious side of this, and i am very lucky she has a wonderful sense of humour.

I'm sure it would be a source of mirth if you had drilled a hole in her wall and mentioned the same pair of boxers the next day at work. The source of mirth isn't that you knew something you should have had no way of knowing, it's that you were crass and insane enough to mention it at work the next day.

Mr Walker, on 13 October 2009 - 08:14 PM, said:

Most "normal" peole want such powers because they think they will be at their command/ control, and be of advantage to them. Neither of those beliefs is necessarily true in reality and thus peole with real powers often dont advertise them.

I don't think people really want such powers. I believe they fantasize about having powers sometimes, understanding that a fantasy is just that. I also think there are a lot of people who claim to have powers for attention knowing they have no powers (remember the "I made you say that. I made you do that. I made you do that, too. WAAAAAAAA, MOM SAM HIT ME!!!" game from when you were little? Along with these few attention-mongers, I think there are a lot of people who really believe they have super-powers because they see a connection whenever coincidence strikes.

I'm open to the possibility that someone out there does really have super-powers. If that's the case though, they're hiding it because I've asked a lot of people who claim to be superhuman and have never seen a demonstration.

[momentarylapseofreason]

momentarylapseofreason, on 16 October 2009 - 02:24 AM, said:

It will only be "obvious" if you experience it yourself and how you choose to interpret it, or experience it with others all together.(to insure it's not your imagination or delusion) Many people "read" too much into common occurences.

please excuse my spelling

[Paranormalcy]

I don't see the point in keeping "powers" secret, either the possessors or scientists doing it, plus it simply wouldn't be possible, there are always leaks and if such things are "natural", then thousands of people across the world have them, there is no way any sort of authority can cover the globe, suppressing info about every single one.

[momentarylapseofreason]

sam12six, on 16 October 2009 - 02:30 AM, said:

This I agree with completely. Assuming psychic powers are real, I would personally keep them a secret since an unseen advantage is a powerful thing. On the other hand, there are obviously a lot of people (hell, a lot just on this forum) who are proudly proclaiming both their amazing abilities and their control over those abilities. If any of these braggarts were telling the truth, they'd make a fortune just showing what they can do.

So how do you prove this:
You take a nice sunday drive to get some fresh air & sunshine at a neighboring town at a pond. It's a beautiful day!! But when you arrive you really can't relax because you get an overwhelming negative feeeling. Your family thinks you are being a jerk, because you get very moody and demanding. they feel great and are enjoying the day. Yes, you can't relax and are overcome with dread & discomfort. An full blown anxiety attack starts that is horrendous. You feel or get a light impression that some girls bodies (you even sense their ages 6&8 yrs.2 brunette girls) are in the pond. Then you see a red car briefly in your mind but can't figure out the make because it's so fuzzy and fast. The feelings are much more intense than the visions. The visions seem too subtle & flaky. You demand to leave immediately. You feel silly and don't want to share your impressions and you don't think it really matters all that much even though this has happened quite few times in the past.

A few months later two bodies are found, 2 girls ages 6&8 (don't know if they are brunette) in that pond. A red car is mentioned that may have something to do with it, directly or indirectly.It's all in the news. So what do you do? Call them and say, "I had a feeling they were in there?" Could you imagine the response? Very unpleasant or you would be a suspect yourself!


Now how do you prove this? how do you prove you pretty much knew or at least a part of your mind knew that they were in there? But you continually reject it because it's not logical, so you suppress it. Is it coincidence every time even though you know so many deatils of past events? Do you call the police? Especially if you weren't even aware that 2 girls were missing in the first place. The only ones you would let know possibly are your closest friends & family whom you trust.


What about sensing a prior deaths in houses? Even though you never had a clue about it's past? All you can do is ask. And people look at you shocked & puzzeled and wonder how in the world you knew. Now it's your confirmation, possibly those who knew of the incident. So now what do you do? Call a news agency and say "hey guess what..........."

This post has been edited by momentarylapseofreason: 16 October 2009 - 04:26 AM

[Mr Walker]

Quote

We'll assume you got out-of-body-lost and ended up in some co-worker's bedroom watching her sleep instead of being perv-man...

Precisely. Actually, i first assumed i was lucid dreaming, and in jest, asked the woman why on earth she was wearing a pair of mens boxers to bed. It turns out she was wearing her partners boxers. He was up in the northern Territory, barrumundi fishing for several months, and she was missing him. That will teach me (again)) to keep my mouth shut, but I just had to know.


Mr Walker, on 13 October 2009 - 08:14 PM, said:

That is stil a source of mirth amongst my colleagues, although i have assured everyone that, as a gentleman, i would not deliberately spy on another person.
As i said, many such events are outside my conscious control (as yet anyway) This poor woman still checks her bedroom at night to see if she can detect my astral presence hovering around it. I can see both the funny and the serious side of this, and i am very lucky she has a wonderful sense of humour.

Quote

I'm sure it would be a source of mirth if you had drilled a hole in her wall and mentioned the same pair of boxers the next day at work. The source of mirth isn't that you knew something you should have had no way of knowing, it's that you were crass and insane enough to mention it at work the next day.

I didnt mention it at work. I just talked to her about it. She was the one who told (and still tells) the story at happy hours. I guess that's because she isnt threatened by it. She does know from experience that i have some unusual abilities (as i have explained before about the students and people i work with.)

The mirth came in from the idea of mild mannered mr walker hovering, in astral form, above her bedroom and her looking up each night to check if she could sense my presence. The idea either terrifies or amuses one, if it is accepted as real.

Quote

Mr Walker, on 13 October 2009 - 08:14 PM, said:

Most "normal" peole want such powers because they think they will be at their command/ control, and be of advantage to them. Neither of those beliefs is necessarily true in reality and thus people with real powers often dont advertise them.


I don't think people really want such powers. I believe they fantasize about having powers sometimes, understanding that a fantasy is just that. I also think there are a lot of people who claim to have powers for attention knowing they have no powers (remember the "I made you say that. I made you do that. I made you do that, too. WAAAAAAAA, MOM SAM HIT ME!!!" game from when you were little? Along with these few attention-mongers, I think there are a lot of people who really believe they have super-powers because they see a connection whenever coincidence strikes.

I think there is a lot of truth in this, particularly among young people. They are powerless and lacking control of their lives. Thus they invent or exaggerate abilities which give them power.

I can only say that, in reality, a young person with such real powers would go to considerable lengths to hide it for many good reasons. Having pimples is cause for angst. Imagine if your peers began to suspect that you could read their minds.

Quote

I'm open to the possibility that someone out there does really have super-powers. If that's the case though, they're hiding it because I've asked a lot of people who claim to be superhuman and have never seen a demonstration.

Fair comment. That might be because such abilities are difficult to produce on demand, or it might be because people who actually can, are the very last to come forward and demonstrate them.

How do you feel about the life of the real person, on whom the tv series, medium, was based, and her abilites to work with police to solve crimes/find bodies etc?

This post has been edited by Mr Walker: 16 October 2009 - 04:41 AM