2241 replies to this topic

[questionmark]

jules99, on 01 April 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

Hi questionmark;
Whats your take on ancient Egyptian cosmology vs the Egyptian priests explanation of the Paethon myth? The explanation of the Paethon myth appears based on science.

" Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals; at such times those who live upon the mountains and in dry and lofty places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on the seashore."

I suppose this could be due to Greek influence (pythagoras), but it does seem odd that we have an Egyptian explaining a Greek myth using a Greek scientific take on the subject..Could the Egyptians have already known and mystery schools and secret knowledge explain this or do you think Greek thought had become pervasive?
Cheers; apologies if this has been dealt with b4..

I stopped at the fact that Solon could not have talked to a priest of an not-yet existing temple. The explanation must be found somewhere else.

But yes, there were connecting points between Greek and Egyptian culture, especially after Alexander the Great. In fact they were so big that the whole ruling elite of Egypt was Greek.

[mandude29]

Leonardo, on 01 April 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

Hi there mandude, welcome to UM.

re: What I have highlighted. My advice to you would be to forget about researching what others have written about Atlantis. Forget about their evidence and arguments.

Study Plato.

Study his life. What happened in his life before he started writing his dialogues. Study those dialogues and understand what they are and why he wrote them.

If you do that, you will understand what Atlantis is without having to look for it.

Leonardo, thank you.  Great advice.  Maybe that's all I was lacking was a direction in which to focus my research.  Will take that to heart and run with it.  And I am sure return with questions.

[mandude29]

Abramelin, on 01 April 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Oh yes they did, many times.

Check "Torre Sea Mount".

Or was it "Tore"?

Anyway, an undersea mega-vulcano somewhere west of Cadiz.

.

Thanks!  I think I may have????  Would have to check notes, but a reread is never a bad thing.  A lot of things that I'd read all seemed to be the most simple explanation (which, I know in theory, must be the correct answer).  I just wonder what we expect to find, a remaining landmass, intact, under the water for example?  Or something that's been in totality decimated.  LOL!!  Figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

[Abramelin]

mandude29, on 01 April 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Thanks!  I think I may have????  Would have to check notes, but a reread is never a bad thing.  A lot of things that I'd read all seemed to be the most simple explanation (which, I know in theory, must be the correct answer).  I just wonder what we expect to find, a remaining landmass, intact, under the water for example?  Or something that's been in totality decimated.  LOL!!  Figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

It seems to be "Tore Seamount", btw, well, according to the pic I found:

 Torre Seamount.jpg   31.54K   3 downloads

Maybe Tore–Madeira Rise (TMR) is a beter expression:



.

Edited by Abramelin, 02 April 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[Harte]

jules99, on 01 April 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

Hi questionmark;
Whats your take on ancient Egyptian cosmology vs the Egyptian priests explanation of the Paethon myth? The explanation of the Paethon myth appears based on science.

I suppose this could be due to Greek influence (pythagoras), but it does seem odd that we have an Egyptian explaining a Greek myth using a Greek scientific take on the subject..

Note:
Timaeus and Critias was written by a Greek, not an Egyptian.

For any of your concerns to have any weight, one would first have to assume that Plato was actually relating a tale that came from Solon, who had heard it in Egypt.

IOW, you have to assume that Atlantis was from an actual myth/story in Egypt.

Then you're halfway to assuming that Atlantis was real, in order to "investigate" whether or not Atlantis was real.

If you look at it objectively, you question isn't germane in the least.

Harte

[stevemagegod]

Abramelin, on 02 April 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

It seems to be "Tore Seamount", btw, well, according to the pic I found:

Torre Seamount.jpg

Maybe Tore–Madeira Rise (TMR) is a beter expression:



.

Interesting Photo. This is what i get when i Google it.
During November–December 1988, an extensive geophysical data set was collected over the Josephine Seamount, which is located at the northeasterly end of the Madeira–Tore Rise in the eastern North Atlantic. The Josephine Seamount lies at the intersection of the Madeira–Tore Rise and Azores–Gibraltar Fracture Zone, the latter representing the Africa–Eurasia plate boundary in this part of the eastern North Atlantic. From this data set, a 275 km long explosive refraction line has been modelled together with wide-angle airgun profiles, seismic reflection and gravity data. The velocity–depth model shows that the crust either side of the Seamount is typically oceanic in character. However, beneath the Seamount there exists a region of anomalously high velocity and crustal thickening to a depth of about 17–18 km. Gravity modelling also suggests that the Josephine Seamount is compensated by a crustal root, and that the Josephine Seamount/Madeira–Tore Rise system is in local isostatic equilibrium. Calculations of the flexural rigidity and effective elastic thickness of the lithosphere in this region suggest that the Madeira–Tore Rise formed contemporaneously with the lithosphere on which it lies. This age of crustal loading is consistent with the proposal that the Madeira–Tore Rise is an aseismic ridge which formed at or near the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

Edited by stevemagegod, 04 April 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[Abramelin]

stevemagegod, on 04 April 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Interesting Photo. This is what i get when i Google it.
During November–December 1988, an extensive geophysical data set was collected over the Josephine Seamount, which is located at the northeasterly end of the Madeira–Tore Rise in the eastern North Atlantic. The Josephine Seamount lies at the intersection of the Madeira–Tore Rise and Azores–Gibraltar Fracture Zone, the latter representing the Africa–Eurasia plate boundary in this part of the eastern North Atlantic. From this data set, a 275 km long explosive refraction line has been modelled together with wide-angle airgun profiles, seismic reflection and gravity data. The velocity–depth model shows that the crust either side of the Seamount is typically oceanic in character. However, beneath the Seamount there exists a region of anomalously high velocity and crustal thickening to a depth of about 17–18 km. Gravity modelling also suggests that the Josephine Seamount is compensated by a crustal root, and that the Josephine Seamount/Madeira–Tore Rise system is in local isostatic equilibrium. Calculations of the flexural rigidity and effective elastic thickness of the lithosphere in this region suggest that the Madeira–Tore Rise formed contemporaneously with the lithosphere on which it lies. This age of crustal loading is consistent with the proposal that the Madeira–Tore Rise is an aseismic ridge which formed at or near the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

There's a guy who wrote a whole Atlantis book about it using thise rise:

Roots of Cataclysm: Geopulsation and the Atlantis Supervolcano in History - Richard W. Welch

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

[jules99]

Abramelin, on 04 April 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

There's a guy who wrote a whole Atlantis book about it using thise rise:

Roots of Cataclysm: Geopulsation and the Atlantis Supervolcano in History - Richard W. Welch

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

Thanks Abe that was an interesting read; typical though, 4 chapters in just as it got to the point where things were getting really interesting it stopped   and to find out more you have to buy the book..
I will see how much it costs..
Cheers

[Abramelin]

jules99, on 04 April 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Thanks Abe that was an interesting read; typical though, 4 chapters in just as it got to the point where things were getting really interesting it stopped   and to find out more you have to buy the book..
I will see how much it costs..
Cheers

I know of the guy because he posted his theory on about every site about Atlantis I enncountered on the internet.

=

Edited by Abramelin, 04 April 2012 - 07:55 PM.

[Mario Dantas]

[docyabut2]

The Egyptians would have not known of the heritage of the people of Atlantis near Gaderia ,or of the frist ten kings, if it were not for some kind of heritage record to go by that was brought back by Necho2 of Sais expediction where the tale came from.

There were the 10 tombs of the culture of Vila Nova de São Pedro. Could be the 10 Kings of Atlantis , their desendants then ruling the city of Tartesso that disapeared.

http://en.wikipedia....i/File:VNSP.gif

Plaques of Iberia

http://www.igespar.p...logia/5_2/5.pdf

Edited by docyabut2, 05 April 2012 - 01:22 AM.

[Harte]

Mario Dantas, on 04 April 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Well, at least that guy has the photoshopped picture oriented the right way (upside down - like the map.)

Harte

[Leonardo]

Harte, on 05 April 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Well, at least that guy has the photoshopped picture oriented the right way (upside down - like the map.)

Harte

Obviously the Kircher map was designed to be read in the Southern hemisphere. Hence the upside-down writing!  

This is why no-one has ever been able to find Atlantis! The map shows that all the continents were originally in the Southern Hemisphere, and have migrated to the Northern Hemisphere since Atlantis sunk!

This is also why the Earth never tipped over, because all the land-mass - and so the weight - was on the bottom half of the sphere!

Edited by Leonardo, 05 April 2012 - 08:57 PM.

[Mario Dantas]

Hi Docyabut,

There can only be one person in the whole world with your name that believes in Tartessos as being Atlantis, it is good to see you...

Interesting findings, they definitely must be related to Atlantis! Nevertheless, according to Plato, Iberian Gades faced its Atlantean "counterpart":

Quote

and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest; the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory. And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.

http://classics.mit....to/critias.html

The Iberian (Gades) region was named after the island's counterpart region of Gadeirus, in my opinion. If there is any truth in my "continental model", the region of Scoresbysund (the largest fjord in the world) tectonically fits within the Pillars of Hercules (Gibraltar) region. In fact, they are even similar to the bull's horns, which is really the root of the word "Gades", at least in the Iberian Peninsula:

https://lh6.googleus...Ys/s512/111.jpg
https://lh3.googleus...12/Untitled.jpg
https://lh3.googleus...2/Gadeirus2.jpg
https://lh6.googleus...ytfffffffff.jpg
https://lh5.googleus...adeirus2222.jpg
https://lh4.googleus.../Gadeirus22.jpg

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas, 06 April 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[Abramelin]

Mario Dantas, on 04 April 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

This is another map made by Athanasius Kircher: