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Atlantis


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#1756    Leonardo

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:31 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 07 April 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

Also whats interesting Herodutus before Plato was the frist to mention the tribes of Atlanties on his map


http://www.mmdtkw.or...tusWorldMap.jpg



Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4. 17. 1 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"The cattle of Geryones, which pastured in the parts of Iberia which slope towards the ocean. And Herakles, realizing that the task called for preparation on a large scale and involved great hardships, gathered a notable armament and a multitude of soldiers as would be adequate for this expedition. For it had been noised abroad throughout all the inhabited world that Khrysaor (Golden-Sword), who received this appellation because of his wealth, was king over the whole of Iberia, and that he had three sons [the three-bodied Geryon] to fight at his side, who excelled in both strength of body and the deeds of courage which they displayed in contests of war; it was known, furthermore, that each of these sons had at his disposal great forces which were recruited from warlike tribes.."

http://www.theoi.com...r/Khrysaor.html


Each of Khrysaor`s ( A king of Tartessos) sons had at their disposal great forces which were recruited from warlike tribes.." The Atlanties of west Africa?


I also believe when the Solon saw the statues of these forgion twin princes ( hyksos) that were transported from Sasi to Tanis, an overwhelming floor of a quarter of a million of men who swooped down upon, conquered and occupied the delta, the Fayoum, and Lower Nile valley he put the story together of Atlantis,as one of the sets of twins sons by Posidion the fish


   http://www.flickr.co...ary/2469134448/

The Atalantes of Herodotus' mention, was the generic name for those peoples who lived in and around the Atlas mountains, and have no connection with Plato's Atlanteans - except that Plato also used Atlas in his dialogue.

As for Solon, Plato used him as the vehicle to bring the tale of Atlantis from Egypt to Athens because of Solon's reputation among the Athenians. When we consider that Plato's dialogues are largely critical of contemporary Athenian society, it makes sense that he would use such a reputable figure to reinforce that criticism, making it more difficult to refute.

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#1757    docyabut2

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:56 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 07 April 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

The Atalantes of Herodotus' mention, was the generic name for those peoples who lived in and around the Atlas mountains, and have no connection with Plato's Atlanteans - except that Plato also used Atlas in his dialogue.

As for Solon, Plato used him as the vehicle to bring the tale of Atlantis from Egypt to Athens because of Solon's reputation among the Athenians. When we consider that Plato's dialogues are largely critical of contemporary Athenian society, it makes sense that he would use such a reputable figure to reinforce that criticism, making it more difficult to refute.

What you have to consider it was not Plato`s story, but Critias who claim he heard the tale from his great grandfather, who knew Solon.Plato didn`t make up the tale, only reported it.The only city that really disapeared in history was Tartesso around the time of Solon.

Edited by docyabut2, 07 April 2012 - 10:59 AM.


#1758    Mario Dantas

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:18 PM

Abramelin,

When you say:

"Mario, everytime you use that most convenient map made by Athanasius Kircher, I will post the other one also he made"

I again state that i am not a Kircher "believer", but there are in fact similarities between Kircher's Insula Atlantis and Greenland:

Posted Image


Posted Image

Although you may not believe it, i hope you will agree that there is at least some similitude.

https://lh5.googleus...topography.jpeg
https://lh5.googleus...d123456789.jpeg
https://lh5.googleus...d123456789.jpeg
https://lh3.googleus...g/s512/wewe.jpg

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas, 07 April 2012 - 03:19 PM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#1759    Abramelin

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:56 PM

View PostMario Dantas, on 07 April 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Abramelin,

When you say:

"Mario, everytime you use that most convenient map made by Athanasius Kircher, I will post the other one he also made"

I again state that i am not a Kircher "believer", but there are in fact similarities between Kircher's Insula Atlantis and Greenland:

Posted Image


Posted Image

Although you may not believe it, i hope you will agree that there is at least some similitude.

https://lh5.googleus...topography.jpeg
https://lh5.googleus...d123456789.jpeg
https://lh5.googleus...d123456789.jpeg
https://lh3.googleus...g/s512/wewe.jpg

Regards,
Mario Dantas

I know both the islands look similar, but you must realize he just fanatasized how Atlantis could have looked like, like he fantasized how the 'pre-Deluvian' world could have looked like. His maps are not in agreement with eachother as you can see for yourself.

In fact, his worldmap - the one I posted - shows "Doggerland" (check that thread if you are interested) or better, it shows the whole Celtic Shelf as it might have looked like when it was still dry land. I am still wondering how he knew about that.

And contrary to 'Atlantis', there is proof of the North Sea and the Celtic Shelf being dry land once.

These areas didn't move 1000's of miles according to some "still unknown tectonical process" (= your theory), they were always there.

And according to some, the "Pillars of Hercules" might have been the rocks at Dover and Calais.

MIGHT, lol.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 07 April 2012 - 04:45 PM.


#1760    Mario Dantas

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 07:51 PM

Here is a comment in Umberto Eco´s latest book: “Do not expect to get rid of books” (2009), on Athanasius Kircher. The book is co authored by Jean-Claude Carrière.

  

Quote

    Do not expect to get rid of books

    [...] Umberto Eco (UE): My collection is very orientated. It is a Biblioteca Semiologica Curiosa Lunattica Magica et Pneumatica, in other words, a collection dedicated to the occult sciences and false sciences. I have Ptolomeu, that was wrong about the movement of the earth, but i don’t have Galileu who was right.

    JCC: Then you forcibly have the works of Athanasius Kircher, an encyclopedic spirit as is your pleasure and, without a doubt a promoter of not few false ideas...

    UE: I have all his works except the first, the Ares Magnesia, though it is a small book without pictures. Probably, only a few copies were printed in the time that Kircher was not yet known. Pamphlets that were so lacking in charm that no one really tried to save with care. But I have also the works of Robert Fludd and of a number of other lunatic spirits.

    JPT: can you tell us a little of Kircher?

    JCC: It is an eighteenth-century German Jesuit who lived in Rome for a long catch up. Author of thirty books covering mathematics, astronomy, music, acoustics, archeology, medicine, china, the Lazio, volcanology and so on. He is sometimes considered the father of Egyptology, although his understanding of hieroglyphic symbols is treated as completely wrong.

    UE: Which does not preclude Champollion could not have carried out his work without relying not only on the Rosetta Steele, but also in reproductions published by Kircher. In 1992, I had given a course at the College de France on the search for a perfect language and consecrated one of my lessons to Athanasius Kircher and his interpretation of hieroglyphs. That day, the janitor told me: 'Mr. Professor, please note. They are in the room sitting in the front row all the Egyptologists from the Sorbonne." I said to myself that i was lost. I had attention and I did not spoke about the hieroglyphics, but simply on the positions of Kircher. I realized then that Egyptologists, who had never occupied of Kircher (and who had only heard about him like a madman), enjoyed themselves immensely. At that time I became acquainted with the Egyptologist Jean Yoyotte, which gave me a valuable bibliography on the issue of loss and rediscovery of the key to hieroglyphics. The example of the disappearance of a language such as the ancient Egyptians interested us, of course, when we feel new dangers hanging on the legacy of universal culture.

    JCC: Kircher was also the first to publish a kind of encyclopedia on China, China Monumentis Illustrata.

    EU: He was the first to realize that Chinese characters had an iconic origin.

    JCC: And without forgetting his brave Ars Magna Lucis et Umbrae, where the first representation of an eye that watches moving images by means of a turntable, makes him the inventor of film, in theory. It is said, moreover, that he introduced in Europe the use of the magic lantern. He addressed all areas of the knowledge of his time. It could be said of Kircher that he was a kind of Internet avant la lettre, that is, he knew everything that was possible to know and there were fifty percent accuracy and fifty percent of inaccuracy or fantasy. Proportion that approaches that we can probably see on our screens. Adding, however, is also why I enjoyed it, he envisioned an orchestra of cats (he had only to pull them to the tails) and a machine to clean volcanoes. He would go down in a basket until the vapors of Vesuvius, supported by a small army of young Jesuits. But Kircher is, first, sought by collectors because their works are of exceptional beauty. I think we're both passionate about Kircher, at least of his works so magnificently edited. Just one is missing, but certainly one of the most important, the Oedipus aegyptiacus. It is considered one of the most beautiful books in the world.

    EU: For me the most curious is the Ark of Noe, with the board of several folds of the court's Ark with all animals, including snakes that lurk deep in the basement.

    JCC: And the magnificent plank of the flood. Without forgetting the "Turris Babel. It shows there, from scientific calculations, the tower of Babel could not have been completed because, unfortunately if it had been, would have made the Earth rotate on its axis due to their height and weight.

    EU: One sees the image of the earth that ran and the tower that emerges from a side horizontal, as if it were his penis. Genial! I have also the works of Gaspar Schott, a pupil of Kircher, a another German Jesuit, but I will not boast of my possessions. The question that may arise is the motivations that drive the collector for this or that object bibliophilia. Why we both collected works of Kircher? There are several considerations that come into account when choosing an earlier work [...]


    2009 N’esperez pas vous debarrasser des livres (entretiens avec Jean-Cklaude Carrière). Paris: Grasset
    Translations:
    Non sperate di liberarvi dei libri. Milano: Bompiani 2009


1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#1761    Mario Dantas

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:42 PM

The Garden of Eden in Mesopotamia. From Athanasius Kircher, Arca Noë.

Posted Image

Edited by Mario Dantas, 07 April 2012 - 08:43 PM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#1762    Mario Dantas

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:47 PM

Central Greenland plain

Posted Image

Edited by Mario Dantas, 07 April 2012 - 08:49 PM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#1763    andes_wolf

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:46 AM

where is it ^


#1764    Harte

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:58 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 07 April 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

What you have to consider it was not Plato`s story, but Critias who claim he heard the tale from his great grandfather, who knew Solon.Plato didn`t make up the tale, only reported it.The only city that really disapeared in history was Tartesso around the time of Solon.
Sorry, but no.

It was Plato's story.  Plato wrote it.  Plato was, unlike Critias, not a character in his Dialogues.

If you remember, the conversation was with Socrates, who was dead by then.

There's no evidence at all that the real Critias - whom Plato did know - was ever involved in any such thing.

Also, there's no evidence of any similar story in any Ancient Egyptian records or myths.

Harte

Posted Image
See the new Harte Mark III
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#1765    Mario Dantas

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:07 PM

Posted Image

Posted Image

Quote

I have before remarked in speaking of the allotments of the gods, that they distributed the whole earth into portions differing in extent, and made for themselves temples and instituted sacrifices. And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe. Looking towards the sea, but in the centre of the whole island, there was a plain which is said to have been the fairest of all plains and very fertile. Near the plain again, and also in the centre of the island at a distance of about fifty stadia, there was a mountain not very high on any side.
http://classics.mit....to/critias.html

https://lh3.googleus...ccccccccccc.jpg
https://lh4.googleus...Island%202.jpeg
https://lh4.googleus...512/ddddddd.jpg

Quote

I will now describe the plain, as it was fashioned by nature and by the labours of many generations of kings through long ages. It was for the most part rectangular and oblong, and where falling out of the straight line followed the circular ditch. The depth, and width, and length of this ditch were incredible, and gave the impression that a work of such extent, in addition to so many others, could never have been artificial. Nevertheless I must say what I was told. It was excavated to the depth of a hundred, feet, and its breadth was a stadium everywhere; it was carried round the whole of the plain, and was ten thousand stadia in length. It received the streams which came down from the mountains, and winding round the plain and meeting at the city, was there let off into the sea. Further inland, likewise, straight canals of a hundred feet in width were cut from it through the plain, and again let off into the ditch leading to the sea: these canals were at intervals of a hundred stadia, and by them they brought down the wood from the mountains to the city, and conveyed the fruits of the earth in ships, cutting transverse passages from one canal into another, and to the city. Twice in the year they gathered the fruits of the earth-in winter having the benefit of the rains of heaven, and in summer the water which the land supplied by introducing streams from the canals.
http://classics.mit....to/critias.html

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#1766    Abramelin

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:26 PM

Mario, you mangled and distorted pics to 'prove' your point.

What next: Plato had a computer too??


#1767    cormac mac airt

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:32 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 08 April 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Mario, you mangled and distorted pics to 'prove' your point.

What next: Plato had a computer too??

Shh, don't tell anybody. That's a trade secret that only the Guild of Quacks are supposed to know.  :w00t:

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1768    Mario Dantas

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:56 PM

Abramelin,

Quote

Mario, you mangled and distorted pics to 'prove' your point.

"Mangled and distorted pics" are not the sole aspect of my theory, you know... i can leave right now, just say it!

Contrary to what any of you might think, to tell you of my theory is not an easy task. There are too many elements from too many areas of knowledge that i feel lost in information, not knowing what exactly to talk about. New Geological data is indicating that the Cape Verde Islands were in fact a part of Greenland, for a start. Google Earth's update is also corroborating the existence of a perfect rectangular surface (100 x 150 km) in central Greenland, as shown in above images.

Regards,
Mario Dantas

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#1769    Arbitran

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:22 PM

View PostMario Dantas, on 08 April 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

Abramelin,



"Mangled and distorted pics" are not the sole aspect of my theory, you know... i can leave right now, just say it!

Contrary to what any of you might think, to tell you of my theory is not an easy task. There are too many elements from too many areas of knowledge that i feel lost in information, not knowing what exactly to talk about. New Geological data is indicating that the Cape Verde Islands were in fact a part of Greenland, for a start. Google Earth's update is also corroborating the existence of a perfect rectangular surface (100 x 150 km) in central Greenland, as shown in above images.

Regards,
Mario Dantas

I may disagree entirely with your theory, but I have enough respect for you to warn you.
These people do not believe you when you state that your information is too expansive (mine is very similar); they will simply make repeated claims that it is somehow proof that you have no evidence.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#1770    docyabut2

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 04:46 AM

I respect all theories however Plato spoke of two different plains, one of the city and one surrounding the city.


I have before remarked in speaking of the allotments of the gods, that they distributed the whole earth into portions differing in extent, and made for themselves temples and instituted sacrifices. And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe. Looking towards the sea, but in the centre of the whole island, there was a plain which is said to have been the fairest of all plains and very fertile. Near the plain again, and also in the centre of the island at a distance of about fifty stadia, there was a mountain not very high on any side.


I have described the city and the environs of the ancient palace nearly in the words of Solon, and now I must endeavour to represent the nature and arrangement of the rest of the land. The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north.

Edited by docyabut2, 09 April 2012 - 04:50 AM.





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