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Atlantis


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#1816    cormac mac airt

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:25 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 24 April 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

How is any of this Greenland business the least bit relevant to the subject of Atlantis? :unsure:

It's not. Mario's all over the geological timeframe of the last few billion years trying, and failing miserably, to be relevant to the discussion. Micro-meteoric particles would have no effect on the geological layout of the planet, nor any small section thereof.

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The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1817    Leonardo

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:56 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 24 April 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

How is any of this Greenland business the least bit relevant to the subject of Atlantis? :unsure:

I think (but I'm not 100% positive) that Mario is suggesting that Greenland was Atlantis, and it originally resided outside the Gibraltar Strait until a very large impact broke it away from the crust (or maybe the impact caused all the tectonic motion of the plates) and started it moving northwest to it's current location.

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#1818    cormac mac airt

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:08 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 24 April 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

I think (but I'm not 100% positive) that Mario is suggesting that Greenland was Atlantis, and it originally resided outside the Gibraltar Strait until a very large impact broke it away from the crust (or maybe the impact caused all the tectonic motion of the plates) and started it moving northwest to it's current location.

Unfortunately, he disregards everything that's known about plate tectonics and tectonic movements (amongst other things) in an attempt to validate his proposed movement of Greenland within the timeframe of anatomically modern humans (US). There's no evidence for any of it beyond his willingness to disregard reality.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1819    kmt_sesh

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:00 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 24 April 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

I think (but I'm not 100% positive) that Mario is suggesting that Greenland was Atlantis, and it originally resided outside the Gibraltar Strait until a very large impact broke it away from the crust (or maybe the impact caused all the tectonic motion of the plates) and started it moving northwest to it's current location.

I'm aware of Mario's Greenland premise. I stopped participating in this thread some time ago because of the Greenland premise. It's not just because he thinks Greenland was Atlantis, but his open denial of the geologic timeline. He's compressing millions if not billions of years without a thought to scientific reality. I for one resoundingly say no, you cannot ignore the geologic timeline. Everything that follows is by necessity pointless and does not contribute to any avenue of study. Good grief.

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#1820    Mario Dantas

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:19 AM

Posted Image

“Oh God. Geology has been just vomited on all over the last many pages. I want to cry.”

You should never underestimate the power of independent research!

I have decided that i will not continue here any longer. Stick with you predictable agendas and good luck in finding the golden pot at the end of the rainbow. I will make a final statement (can i have this much?) to those who might be interested in reading about a four year research, that has consumed much of my personal life...

I wonder how could you just ignore what has been shown here. Images are worth a thousand words! I doubt that any of you has taken time to analyse them. You discard the obvious! There is a continental fit between Iberia, northwest Africa and eastern Greenland, to say the least. But you deny it because it is uncomfortable? Can you tell me in all honesty that nothing was presented here? All “evidences” forwarded do not have the least bit of credibility?

You tell me that it is a mere coincidence that my images are showing a continental fit, between three continents. Nevertheless, nobody ever “explained” here why there is no continental fit in that exact region, in the north Atlantic. Nobody ever explained why the largest positive anomaly on earth is located exactly on the northern MAR, again, where there no continental fit at all. The Sahara holds secrets that in due time will be revealed by archaeologists, there is no doubt in my mind. The mud related by Plato in Timaeus and Critias is everywhere, even in the atmosphere and also in Greenland’s bottom ice cores:

“Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. Of the combatants on the one side, the city of Athens was reported to have been the leader and to have fought out the war; the combatants on the other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean.”
http://classics.mit....to/critias.html

“But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth,and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. ”
http://classics.mit....to/timaeus.html

Posted Image

How come Greenland’s silty ice core (at the bottom) can have a thickness of more than 13 m? What provoked that “shoal of mud”? Not even science has a sure answer for it, but i believe you certainly do have an explanation! or worse, a reason to contradict it.

You failed to understand (and i must say you only understand experts) that a strangely geologic similitude between two far apart regions in the world exists on top of a undeniable continental fit. I feel like i am wasting my time here and that no good result will ever come out of such a discussion, maybe i should look for a geology forum instead...

You speak like Greenland was situated in Mars and not in the northern Atlantic ocean. You speak like Greenland is not the largest island in the Atlantic, or in the world...

Greenland moved from a southerner location (nearly positioned in front of Gibraltar) to its present position (nearest to the north pole), does this ring any bells to you? Read Plato’s dialogs well first!

Does Greenland have any of the of the valuable minerals referred by Plato, such as gold? (let us not forget that only less than 20% of the entire island’s barren territory is just now starting to be explored):

“Today there are several gold occurrences known in Greenland. These are primary in-situ deposits of gold. Secondary deposits of gold, i.e. placer gold, have not been found in Greenland. Over the last three decades a number of significant gold mineralised areas have been discovered and described.”
http://www.geus.dk/minex/go11.pdf

What about the plain?

“The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north. The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist”
http://classics.mit....to/critias.html

Greenland's golden rectangle:
https://picasaweb.go...GoldenRectangle

Is that a coincidence that in two different sets of images by Google Earth, the results are one and the same? There is something beneath Greenland’s ice, whether you like it or not!

Much has been said in the past years about Greenland’s anomaly object:



Now that Google Earth’s update has been issued, there is the proof that a perfectly rectangular shape exists below the ice. What do you have to say about that? I hope you do not close this thread...

https://lh3.googleus...lantis%20A2.jpg
https://lh3.googleus...tM/s512/QWE.jpg

The northern MAR is also another matter of importance:

https://lh3.googleus...2/Atlantis6.jpg

You deny that the bulge formed by the northern MAR, has exactly the same shape as Greenland? GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program)!

https://lh3.googleus...ywY/s512/A2.jpg
https://lh5.googleus...is%20Iberia.jpg
https://lh4.googleus...qk/s512/A11.jpg

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas, 26 April 2012 - 12:20 AM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#1821    Abramelin

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:32 AM

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#1822    TheTitan

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:09 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 April 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

I'm new around here and I've been reading quite a few of the posts and links on this thread about atlantis. Some interesting one's which gets the mind thinking to some down right fabrications. But this link here really made laugh.


#1823    stevemagegod

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:43 PM

View PostTheTitan, on 26 April 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

I'm new around here and I've been reading quite a few of the posts and links on this thread about atlantis. Some interesting one's which gets the mind thinking to some down right fabrications. But this link here really made laugh.

I can't believe this thread is still alive. Considering its been 3 years now lol. But ya i do have to agree with you there are some ridicously theories on here but theres also a lot of scientific facts to.


#1824    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:53 PM

View Poststevemagegod, on 05 October 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

I can't believe this thread is still alive. Considering its been 3 years now lol. But ya i do have to agree with you there are some ridicously theories on here but theres also a lot of scientific facts to.

1000 miles opposite the pillars of Hercules (Gibralter) the Eurasian, Carribbean and African tectonic plates meet.

Oil exploration has reported vast magma chambers under the seabed there the type of which feeds supervolcanos. There is the possibility Atlantis was built on an island there similar to Yellowsone Park. When the magma chambers emptied the height of the land mass descended to 1000s of metres below sea level.

There is also the possibility Atlantis is older than thought so instead of looking what coastal regions were land at the end of the last ice age we should go back further to where open ocean was land.


#1825    cormac mac airt

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:14 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 05 October 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

1000 miles opposite the pillars of Hercules (Gibralter) the Eurasian, Carribbean and African tectonic plates meet.

Oil exploration has reported vast magma chambers under the seabed there the type of which feeds supervolcanos. There is the possibility Atlantis was built on an island there similar to Yellowsone Park. When the magma chambers emptied the height of the land mass descended to 1000s of metres below sea level.

There is also the possibility Atlantis is older than thought so instead of looking what coastal regions were land at the end of the last ice age we should go back further to where open ocean was land.

There have been enough core samples take by both the Deep Sea Drilling Project (DSDP) as well as the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program (IODP) to date the area around the Atlantis Massif, the area you're talking about, to the last 1.5 - 2 million years while showing no evidence for anything remotely like Plato's Atlantis having ever existed. And Plato never placed his Atlantis that far away from the Straits of Gibraltar, but sufficiently close enough to block the straits with a shoal of mud upon its destruction.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1826    stevemagegod

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:10 PM

View PostMario Dantas, on 26 April 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Posted Image

“Oh God. Geology has been just vomited on all over the last many pages. I want to cry.”

You should never underestimate the power of independent research!

Can you be more specific on which pages exactly?


#1827    Proclus

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:36 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 05 October 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

And Plato never placed his Atlantis that far away from the Straits of Gibraltar, but sufficiently close enough to block the straits with a shoal of mud upon its destruction.
Let us be precise on this: It is the priest within the Atlantis story who places it there, with the words, that "in your language" (i.e. Greek) the straits would be called "Pillars of Hercules". This simply means that in the Egyptian account (if it existed) the word "Pillars of Hercules" was not written (which is logic because it is a more recent Greek word in the times of Solon and Plato and not an Egyptian word). And this means that the original account (if it existed) does not talk of the Pillars of Hercules. This is valid even within the assumption that the whole thing is a fiction because Plato then considered this point to make his fiction a very very perfect fiction. But it is valid also under the assumption that there maybe was an Egyptian account.

And what does this mean?

It means that we should ask the question if the priest could have made a mistake within the context of his Saitic cultural and geographic understanding, when he identified the straits from the original account with the Greek Pillars of Hercules. (Again, this is just a question I want to open, I do not claim anything but one thing: That the whole thing with Atlantis is not that simple as many think.).

Edited by Proclus, 16 January 2013 - 05:38 PM.

Academic approaches towards Atlantis as a real place: www.Atlantis-Scout.de!

#1828    cormac mac airt

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

View PostProclus, on 16 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Let us be precise on this: It is the priest within the Atlantis story who places it there, with the words, that "in your language" (i.e. Greek) the straits would be called "Pillars of Hercules". This simply means that in the Egyptian account (if it existed) the word "Pillars of Hercules" was not written (which is logic because it is a more recent Greek word in the times of Solon and Plato and not an Egyptian word). And this means that the original account (if it existed) does not talk of the Pillars of Hercules. This is valid even within the assumption that the whole thing is a fiction because Plato then considered this point to make his fiction a very very perfect fiction. But it is valid also under the assumption that there maybe was an Egyptian account.

And what does this mean?

It means that we should ask the question if the priest could have made a mistake within the context of his Saitic cultural and geographic understanding, when he identified the straits from the original account with the Greek Pillars of Hercules. (Again, this is just a question I want to open, I do not claim anything but one thing: That the whole thing with Atlantis is not that simple as many think.).

Which has no bearing on reality since there is no evidence that the story of Atlantis, by whatever name, ever existed in Ancient Egypt at any point in its entire existance. So it remains as nothing more than something allegedly said within the confines of a story. And it would appear that your bouncing from an alleged priest's claim within the Atlantis story to wondering if the priest made a mistake, in the real world, is an attempt to represent the story as fact. That's not the way it works. First try showing evidence that the story of Atlantis, as an island empire, ever existed in Greece and Egypt prior to Plato's claim. Because anything less is a house of cards.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1829    Abramelin

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:05 PM

View PostProclus, on 16 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Let us be precise on this: It is the priest within the Atlantis story who places it there, with the words, that "in your language" (i.e. Greek) the straits would be called "Pillars of Hercules". This simply means that in the Egyptian account (if it existed) the word "Pillars of Hercules" was not written (which is logic because it is a more recent Greek word in the times of Solon and Plato and not an Egyptian word). And this means that the original account (if it existed) does not talk of the Pillars of Hercules. This is valid even within the assumption that the whole thing is a fiction because Plato then considered this point to make his fiction a very very perfect fiction. But it is valid also under the assumption that there maybe was an Egyptian account.

And what does this mean?

It means that we should ask the question if the priest could have made a mistake within the context of his Saitic cultural and geographic understanding, when he identified the straits from the original account with the Greek Pillars of Hercules. (Again, this is just a question I want to open, I do not claim anything but one thing: That the whole thing with Atlantis is not that simple as many think.).

I'd like to add that the older name of the Pillars of Hercules was Pillars of Melqart. The Greeks equated their Hercules (or better, "Herakles") with Melqart, and changed the name accordingly.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 16 January 2013 - 07:05 PM.


#1830    Proclus

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 16 January 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Which has no bearing on reality since there is no evidence that the story of Atlantis, by whatever name, ever existed in Ancient Egypt at any point in its entire existance. So it remains as nothing more than something allegedly said within the confines of a story. And it would appear that your bouncing from an alleged priest's claim within the Atlantis story to wondering if the priest made a mistake, in the real world, is an attempt to represent the story as fact. That's not the way it works. First try showing evidence that the story of Atlantis, as an island empire, ever existed in Greece and Egypt prior to Plato's claim. Because anything less is a house of cards.

I take this as a first step to admit that it is not that easy. Thank you!
And concerning the attackers from islands: The Sea Peoples serve well, here.
And others, too.
Look, again I do not want to claim anything, but to claim only one thing:
LET US SEARCH! For heavens sake, do not interrupt a search before you know where it will lead to.
You yourself defined criteria for this search in your posting above, now let us follow this path!

View PostAbramelin, on 16 January 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

I'd like to add that the older name of the Pillars of Hercules was Pillars of Melqart. The Greeks equated their Hercules (or better, "Herakles") with Melqart, and changed the name accordingly.
Maybe, maybe not. According to Karl Kerenyi the Pillars of Hercules once stood in the direct south-west of Greece.
But this is not the question, because: In an old (very old) Egyptian text surely nothing was said about the Pillars.
Something was written there which made the Saitic priest to immediately think of Gibraltar.

Edited by Proclus, 16 January 2013 - 07:13 PM.

Academic approaches towards Atlantis as a real place: www.Atlantis-Scout.de!




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