[Wookietim]

aquatus1, on 22 October 2009 - 10:58 AM, said:

Ahhh! **raises index finger and both eyebrows dramatically** But that does not preclude that the paranormal may well be something that is outside of nature (which is, after all, limited to the life and landscape of a particular planet).

That's like trying to talk about something outside the universe... "Outside" of nature has no real meaning - especially when it is demonstrably a part of nature since we can experience it.

It is either within our range of perception (If it's a real phenomenon) - in which case it is part of nature and therefore cannot be "Paranormal". OR it is outside of nature and outside our perception, in which case it may be "Paranormal" but we wouldn't have any way of experiencing it.

Even if one tries to bring in metaphysics like "Heaven" and "God" - if it interacts with our perception in any way, that is part of nature and therefore is not beside the normal.

[sinewave]

Wookietim, on 22 October 2009 - 10:02 AM, said:

That's like trying to talk about something outside the universe... "Outside" of nature has no real meaning - especially when it is demonstrably a part of nature since we can experience it.

It is either within our range of perception (If it's a real phenomenon) - in which case it is part of nature and therefore cannot be "Paranormal". OR it is outside of nature and outside our perception, in which case it may be "Paranormal" but we wouldn't have any way of experiencing it.

Even if one tries to bring in metaphysics like "Heaven" and "God" - if it interacts with our perception in any way, that is part of nature and therefore is not beside the normal.

I agree. Nothing is outside of nature but there is plenty outside of our understanding.

This post has been edited by sinewave: 22 October 2009 - 07:22 PM

[kiddglock]

There are two forums more devoted to this type of debate than this one is. No offense. It sounds as if your mind is already made up. I would say that physical manifestations in both religion and parapsychology, are the fly in your ointment, the monkey in your wrench, as it were.

[sinewave]

kiddglock, on 23 October 2009 - 01:21 AM, said:

There are two forums more devoted to this type of debate than this one is. No offense. It sounds as if your mind is already made up. I would say that physical manifestations in both religion and parapsychology, are the fly in your ointment, the monkey in your wrench, as it were.

If it belongs somewhere else, the Mods with put it there.

[Wookietim]

sinewave, on 22 October 2009 - 03:22 PM, said:

I agree. Nothing is outside of nature but there is plenty outside of our understanding.

That is the best way of saying it I have heard yet.

[aquatus1]

I don't know. I tend to think of "nature" as being restricted to a given planet. No one talks about nature in space, or nature on the moon.

Why give the word "nature" the same meaning as the word "universe".

This post has been edited by aquatus1: 23 October 2009 - 06:00 PM

[Sweetpumper]

aquatus1, on 23 October 2009 - 06:59 PM, said:

No one talks about nature in space, or nature on the moon.

Did you miss the "Life on the Moon" thread in the ET section?

Oh, you meant real people.

[sinewave]

Wookietim, on 23 October 2009 - 12:21 PM, said:

That is the best way of saying it I have heard yet.

Thanks Tim!

[sinewave]

aquatus1, on 23 October 2009 - 12:59 PM, said:

I don't know. I tend to think of "nature" as being restricted to a given planet. No one talks about nature in space, or nature on the moon.

Why give the word "nature" the same meaning as the word "universe".

When I say nature I mean in a broader sense than just plants, animals, and pretty landscapes. I mean the nature of things in general not just what is likely specific to our planet. I am talking about the threads common to the Universe - the physics and chemistry that bind everything. Frank Lloyd Wright called it Nature, with a capital N and used it in place of the word God throughout his life.

This post has been edited by sinewave: 23 October 2009 - 06:46 PM

[maximaldecimal]

I sgree there is a wide array of events that fit into the op's statement. The problem we have in dismissing all of the evidence is the fact that some of the evidence may have merit. Occurences such as shadows in photographs, lights that seem to jump around the skyon home video, and discovery of as of yet unclassified creatures do indeed happen. Thier subjectmatter is the subject of historical record. Many of the ufo phenomena could indeed be terestrial in nature that does not indicate identification. New species do get found new insects are discovered every year. As for ghosts and other apparations the documentation on audio distortions, hot/cold patches, electromagnetic fluctuations and film anomolies are for the majority unexplained by the group delusion theme. I believe anything is possible myself and try to keep an open mind. I like to think I can see the skeptical point of few though in my mind I use doubt mainly as a key to focus. I have seen much I can classify as delusion. I have seen much that I cannot.

[lookingfortruth]

I really think if ghost sightings and demons were real they'd have solid evidence by now. they've had plenty of time haven't they?

[Reelybored]

lookingfortruth, on 23 October 2009 - 07:32 PM, said:

I really think if ghost sightings and demons were real they'd have solid evidence by now. they've had plenty of time haven't they?

not unless these other forces makes it a point not to be exposed.... or are just camera shy

[sinewave]

Noting short of repeatable and reproducible physical measurements will suffice as proof. All the pictures an recordings in world collectively are merely suggestive at best.

[lookingfortruth]

Reelybored, on 24 October 2009 - 12:52 AM, said:

not unless these other forces makes it a point not to be exposed.... or are just camera shy

hehe it'll never get too old for that one! I suppose it'll always be a mystery

[Jerry Only]

The way I see it, everything we experience from the second we're born to the moment we die is what our brain is telling us. All our senses are told to us by our brain. So if that is true, yes, all paranormal activity is in the brain... because everything in our world is in our brain! Pretty profound if you really sit down and think about it...