Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Second expulsion for veiled schoolgirl in France


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1    DC09

DC09

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,458 posts
  • Joined:17 Feb 2004
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 26 May 2004 - 12:19 AM

  rolleyes.gif

STRASBOURG, France (Reuters) - A Muslim girl who refuses to remove her headscarf was expelled Tuesday from French state schools for the second time in six months, education authorities said.

Hilal, a 12-year-old of Turkish origin, was shut out of a school in the eastern town of Thann in November for refusing to uncover her hair. Another school there took her in on condition that she wear a bandana instead of the full headscarf.

But Hilal went back to the full headscarf after only a few days of wearing the bandana, sparking off a day-long strike by teachers in March demanding that she conform to the rule banning overt signs of religious affiliation.

"The agreement was never clearly put into practice, despite the contacts the principal had with her and her parents," said Philippe Hemez, a local school board official.


France has passed a ban on pupils wearing religious garb in school, judging it a violation of the constitutional separation of church and state, and plans to implement it in September.


The new law leaves some flexibility for compromise solutions such as bandanas, as Muslim leaders have proposed, but the full head-and-shoulders scarf that Hilal wears would not be allowed.


Hilal's family has a week to appeal the expulsion. If it is upheld, school officials will have to find another school for her or organize a correspondence course to allow her to continue her schooling.


A handful of other children have been expelled under the law.

Article





#2    BurnSide

BurnSide

    Through the Looking Glass

  • Member
  • 25,390 posts
  • Joined:11 May 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Everywhere.

  • Experience is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you.

Posted 26 May 2004 - 12:25 AM

That makes me sick.
And i ain't religious.

Maybe it's me getting used to canadian customs and the fact that theres more forgien religions here than there are canadians, but come ON, it's their religious beliefs you can't tear that away from someone, especially in SCHOOL.
Christ.


#3    Janiel

Janiel

    Author of Best Signature 2005

  • Member
  • 11,369 posts
  • Joined:19 May 2003

Posted 26 May 2004 - 12:37 AM

just let her wear the damned scarf...s**t...ppeople are sooooooooo pathetic...

Posted Image
гордый фетишйст


#4    Talon

Talon

    UM Chess Tournament Champion 2005

  • Member
  • 15,003 posts
  • Joined:29 Jan 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paisley, Scotland

  • Life, Death, Anime inbetween

Posted 26 May 2004 - 04:47 AM

I agree with the schools.

I'm sorry to ofend the rest of you, but its France's law and we can't pick and choose want laws we want to obey or not.

Every other religion follows the law without arguement, Christains don't were crosses, Jews don't were skullcaps, why is this girl and other like her demanding special treatment. If they allow her to wear a headscarf it will be discriminating against other religions and against the wishes of the nation of France, a nation she and her parents choose to live in. If they want to live in France they have to accept its rules and regularions.

Please tell me why France should have to change its beleif system to follow that of Turkey?

Her family choose to leave Turkey, they should not expect the country they move into to become a new one.

Her past should not be France's future.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#5    Fluffybunny

Fluffybunny

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,136 posts
  • Joined:24 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male

  • "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."
    Thomas Paine

Posted 26 May 2004 - 06:04 AM

I agree with you Talon.

The schools rules are in place and they apply to everyone. I could see the girls point if crosses and caps were allowed but not head scarves, but that isn't the case.

I lived in Southern California for several years. For those of you that aren't local, it is in where Los Angeles is, and is quite a melting pot. There was a time when people that immigrated to the area from other countries worked hard to climitze themselves to their new country. They would learn the language and customs of their new home. They would melt into the pot; adding a bit of themselves to the stock.

Now you can drive around different areas of Southern Calfornia and find areas where different immigrants gathered together and have for the most part turned an entire community into a small version of their country.

In Orange county there is Little Saigon, where the better part of a city has it's signs in Vietnamese. It is like anothercountry there. Where I grew up if you didn't know spanish, you didn't get around very well. I met folks that had been living in the country for decades without learning the language. The cultures and the customs don't seem to blend into the melting pot anymore.

I wouldn't move to France without learning French. I wouldn't expect France to cater to my American Customs(violence, overeating, etc. whistling2.gif ), and I don't understand how someone else would assume that their new country will bend to their wishes.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#6    Talon

Talon

    UM Chess Tournament Champion 2005

  • Member
  • 15,003 posts
  • Joined:29 Jan 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paisley, Scotland

  • Life, Death, Anime inbetween

Posted 26 May 2004 - 06:10 AM

Similarly my parents considered emigrating to Australia before I was born, however they decided if they went they were not going to force their culture on the native population. They beleived if they were leaving Scotland for Australia they had to respect their new homeland enough to become new Australians and raise their children as such.


QUOTE
Now you can drive around different areas of Southern Calfornia and find areas where different immigrants gathered together and have for the most part turned an entire community into a small version of their country.


Yes, its called multiculturalismm, the replacing of the majority's culture with the minority's   grin2.gif

Edited by Talon S., 26 May 2004 - 06:12 AM.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#7    Althalus

Althalus

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,906 posts
  • Joined:12 Jan 2002
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England

Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:13 AM

Unfortunately, this type of thing happens all over the world, albeit not as frequently:

Muslim girl suspended for head scarf

Saturday, October 11, 2003 Posted: 5:17 AM EDT (0917 GMT)

The school board is expected to have a decision next Wednesday on whether Hern can return to school wearing her head scarf, officials said.

OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) -- An 11-year-old Oklahoma girl has been suspended from a public school because officials said her Muslim head scarf violates dress code policies.

Board officials met Friday to discuss the fate of suspended sixth-grader Nashala "Tallah" Hern, who was asked to leave school in the eastern Oklahoma town of Muskogee on October 1 because she refused to remove her head scarf, called a "hijab."

School officials instituted a dress code in 1997 prohibiting the wearing of hats and other head coverings indoors. Officials said they implemented the code to stem gang-related activity. Hern declined to remove her hijab, saying it would violate the way she observes her religion.

Officials at the school, the Ben Franklin Science Academy, previously summoned
Hern to the office on September 11 to inform her she was no longer allowed to wear the scarf. She had worn it since the school year started a few weeks earlier.

Source: Link

Now about the Hijab, or veil of secrecy, the Islamic woman must according to SOME scriptures wear clothing that covers all body parts apart from those bits which Mohammed pointed to, which were the hands and face, so that would include the hair, but other parts say that they should just cover any bits of beauty so as to not entice men.

But it is also said in some circles that they do not have to wear it, as it is only a custom and not a religious code.  The debate is still out as to which one is right.

"We make choices everyday, some of them good, some of them bad. And - if we are strong enough - we live with the consequences."
David Gemmell

#8    Erikl

Erikl

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,522 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Israel

Posted 26 May 2004 - 09:09 AM

QUOTE
Please tell me why France should have to change its beleif system to follow that of Turkey?

Her family choose to leave Turkey, they should not expect the country they move into to become a new one.


The irony is that Turkey too doesn't allow girls to wear headscarf in schools and universities  LOL  tongue.gif  

Posted Image

"We live in a world where when Christians kill Muslims, it's a crusade; When Jews kill Muslims, it's a massacre; When Muslims kill Muslims, it's the weather channel. Nobody cares"

#9    Aslan

Aslan

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,523 posts
  • Joined:05 Jun 2003
  • Location:Czech Republic

  • Scariest Member of the Six Worst Men of the Apfelschnaps

Posted 26 May 2004 - 09:55 AM

As it goes, the AK party is seeking to change that particular law, and they appear to have quite a lot of popular support to do so.


#10    joc

joc

    Adminstrator of Cosmic Blues

  • Member
  • 12,689 posts
  • Joined:12 Dec 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy 3rd planet

  • They're wearing steel that's bright and true
    They carry news that must get through
    They choose the path where no-one goes

Posted 26 May 2004 - 11:23 AM

QUOTE
I agree with you Talon.


A little Algebra is in order here:

If A = B and B = C then A = C.

You agree with Talon....I agree with Talon .... Therefore; I agree with you.


PARTY!!! w00t.gif  

Posted Image
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

ReverbNation

#11    Seraphina

Seraphina

    Voted Best Member 2005

  • Member
  • 7,133 posts
  • Joined:10 Sep 2003
  • Location:Paisley, Scotland

  • Everyone likes a smouldering and sexy glare from a diminutive scientist.

Posted 26 May 2004 - 01:47 PM

Miracles happen every day, Joc, Talon and I are all of the same opinion w00t.gif

I believe the same thing I always have....if you want to live in a country, then you must be expected to follows the laws of that country. I've got no patience with people who expect special treatment, or some kind of immunity from a rule everyone else has to follow.

Religious symbols don't have any right being in a place of learning...whether it's a cross around your neck, or a gigantic blanket over your head, it should be left at the door. If they're unable to accept that, then there are many countries they could go to where the scarf is, in fact, compulsory...in fact, so compulsory they'll stone you to death if you don't wear it.

People who emigrate to get away from a bad life by moving into other people's cultures can't pick and choose which part of that culture they're going to follow, and which they're going to try and replace with your own; people who can't integrate have no business living in other people's countries.

Posted Image

Apparantly, over on Exchristian.Net, they say that I'm "probably the smartest person" on UM....that is so cool...

#12    Fluffybunny

Fluffybunny

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,136 posts
  • Joined:24 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male

  • "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."
    Thomas Paine

Posted 26 May 2004 - 03:46 PM

QUOTE (joc @ May 26 2004, 04:23 AM)
You agree with Talon....I agree with Talon .... Therefore; I agree with you.



Wow, imagine that...wait, something must be wrong...

I guess we are just going to have to agree to agree. It isn't nearly as much fun, but it is kind of nice every once in a while.  thumbsup.gif  

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#13    aquatus1

aquatus1

    Forum Divinity

  • 19,425 posts
  • Joined:05 Mar 2004
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 26 May 2004 - 06:37 PM

On a similar, but a little different note:

Disney fires woman refusing to remove hijab

I'm all for religious freedom, but Disney makes it absolutely, without the slightest chance of doubt, bordering...no, actually pretty much all the way, dictatorial statement that when you are "on-stage" (where the tourists are), then you are an actor and you must be in costume.  No if, ands, or buts.  Having worked at, and been fired from, Disneyworld myself, I have no great love for the company, but again, you knew what you were agreeing to when you signed the contract.  You can't expect the rules to change just because you're there now.  





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users