[digitalartist]

blue triangle, on 27 October 2009 - 10:29 PM, said:

I've answered this already, but I'd like to repeat that The Two Towers was released in 2001, as was Oceans Eleven.

I meant to say the movie was an adaptation of the books not the books were an adaptation of the books...My bad. In any case, the movie, "The two towers" was not inspired by, or based on 9/11 but adaptations of books written decades before the twin towers of New York were built.

blue triangle said:

Are you aware that the 9/11 Commision Hearings, the official hearings into 9/11, were completed 1010 days after 9/11? the 9/11 Commision Report was published 1045 (11 x 95) days after 9/11. There are many more strange numerical coincidences like that. The Great Northeastern USA blackout of 11/9/65 took place 13090 (11 x 1190) days before 9/11. A very famous UFO encounter, only two miles from where I live (at Dechmont Hill, Livingston, Scotland), took place on 11/9/79, 22 years before 9/11.

Are you aware that you are just playing with numbers and they don't actually support your theory. I'm sure you can find the number 11 as you can any other number in many words, names, calculations, etc.

Here is an example of what I mean. it is an old calculator trick. Get a calculator. The story is you have 142 Israelis, 154 Arabs who are fighting over 69 oil wells in a 5 day war. Who is responsible? On the calculator punch in 14215469, multiply it by 5, then turn your calculator upside down and read the answer. It doesn't prove that company was responsible, it's just playing with numbers.

blue triangle said:

A man called Bob Taylor (who was a colleague of a friend of mine and the ordinal value of whose name is 110)

Well only if his name actually is Bob (no middle name) Taylor. If its Robert Taylor or if there is a middle name then your calculation is incorrect.

blue triangle said:

You are absolutely right that the shockwaves would have affected many writers, artists, etc - and that is just what the evidence shows! I give some of it in my page Signs of the Times in my site the New Bible Code. There is much more though, and others have done far more work than me in this area. The site September11.com has gathered a lot of fascinating information on 9/11 and Osama bin Laden (whose life has been stampted with the number 11 and whose name also has an ordinal value of 110). The Bible itself is a cultural artifact that is saturated with 9/11 prophecies and elevenness. For instance, Revelation is the 66th book of the Bible, has 22 chapters and 404 verses.

Actually I'm sure you can take just about any book from hop on pop to the encyclopedia and find "eleveness" as you put it so that proves nothing. As for the bible, unfortunately for you, it is not saturated with 9/11 prophecies. If I am wrong, show where it refers to New York City, The twin trade towers, Osama Bin Laden, Planes, etc...

[*Frank*]

blue triangle, on 29 October 2009 - 06:46 AM, said:

This story prefigured the Crucifixion and 9/11, which was another 'crucifixion'.

Um... no it wasn't.

Quote

3. Exodus 27 and 38: the altar of burnt offering. 9/11 was a 'burnt offering'.

No, it wasn't.

Quote

4. 1 Samuel, 17:49: David killing Goliath with a single slingshot. 1749 = 11 x 59

This never happened and what does the number 59 have to do with anything?

Quote

5. Isaiah 31:25 A prophecy of 'the day of destruction, when the towers fall'. 3125 = 11 x 11 x 5 x 5

What does the number 5 have to do with anything?

Quote

6. Daniel 8: The flying goat shattering the two horns of the strutting Ram. Daniel 8 is the Bible's 858th chapter, 858 being 11 x 78

What does the number 78 have to do with anything?

Quote

7. Mark 11: Jesus' triumphant entry into Jerusalem, his overturning of the tables of the money changers and his cursing a fig tree. Mark 11 is the Bible's 968th chapter. 968 = 11 x 11 x 8.

The number 8... dare I ask?

Quote

Because the writers of these movies and any books they were based on were influenced by the 'psychic shockwaves' from the 9/11 incident, just as biblical prophets such as the one we know as Daniel were. Synchronicity did the rest.

No they weren't and no it didn't. I have a degree in Film Production and I have written my fair share of screenplays and I can safely say that not one of them was influenced by the 'psychic shockwaves' of September 11th.

Quote

It most certainly was this too, but the event was somehow controlled from 'above' to send a powerful, urgent and timely message to all humankind, who have now largely turned their backs on their Creator. Unfortunately this holds true for most Christians, who claim to worship God but in reality kneel at the alter of mammon.

Well the 'almighty god' screwed up in spectacular fashion then didn't he? If 9/11 was meant to be a warning to all mankind to bring peace and love to one another god clearly didn't count on this little human invention called war. Apparently in his wisdom he never saw that coming. Which is strange because I certainly did.

[*Frank*]

digitalartist, on 29 October 2009 - 07:58 PM, said:

I meant to say the movie was an adaptation of the books not the books were an adaptation of the books...My bad. In any case, the movie, "The two towers" was not inspired by, or based on 9/11 but adaptations of books written decades before the twin towers of New York were built.

Correct. In fact the two towers were inspired by buildings in Edgbaston, Birmingham where J.R.R Tolkien lived with his aunt.

[lookingfortruth]

bluetriangle, the more posts i'm reading, the more it makes me feel like your bending everything to fit your "bible prophecies"

[blue triangle]

digitalartist, on 29 October 2009 - 07:58 PM, said:

I meant to say the movie was an adaptation of the books not the books were an adaptation of the books...My bad. In any case, the movie, "The two towers" was not inspired by, or based on 9/11 but adaptations of books written decades before the twin towers of New York were built.

That's of course true, but the fact that the film came out so close to 9/11 was no coincidemce, I believe. It was synchronicity, Jung's word for meaningful coincidence. I don't say that because of this one event - that could easily have been coincidence, but because there were so many of them (see below).

digitalartist, on 29 October 2009 - 07:58 PM, said:

Are you aware that you are just playing with numbers and they don't actually support your theory. I'm sure you can find the number 11 as you can any other number in many words, names, calculations, etc.

In any numerical feature of anything there is a 1-in-11 chance of finding a multiple of 11 (assuming we are dealing with a whole number). However, there was a 'clustering' effect around 9/11 - caused by synchronicity - that was designed to catch our attention. The number 11 was built into 9/11 (incidentally, so was the number 5). The date was the 11th, flight 11 hit first (not second or fourth but first - that itself increases its significance), the towers resembled 11 and had 110 storeys, etc, etc, etc. It's willful blindness not to see that something is going on here. If you really want to be convinced, go to september11news.com.

digitalartist, on 29 October 2009 - 07:58 PM, said:

Here is an example of what I mean. it is an old calculator trick. Get a calculator. The story is you have 142 Israelis, 154 Arabs who are fighting over 69 oil wells in a 5 day war. Who is responsible? On the calculator punch in 14215469, multiply it by 5, then turn your calculator upside down and read the answer. It doesn't prove that company was responsible, it's just playing with numbers.

That's something that someone deliberately constructed so that the numbers would give that message. But what if there actually was a 5-day war, involving 142 Israelies, 154 Arabs and 69 oil wells? Do you see the difference? 9/11 was not a fictional scenario. It happened. The numbers were built into the event, the Bible and other cultural artifacts and they form a clear message.

digitalartist, on 29 October 2009 - 07:58 PM, said:

Well only if his name actually is Bob (no middle name) Taylor. If its Robert Taylor or if there is a middle name then your calculation is incorrect.

All forms of his name can be used, although obviously his full name has the most significance. Interesting that it came to 110 though, is it not. I don't know Bob Taylor's full name, but I do know Osama bin Laden's full name, so let's try both versions.

Osama bin Laden (o) = 110 = 11 x 10
Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden (o) = 209 = 11 x 19

Hmm, interesting.

digitalartist, on 29 October 2009 - 07:58 PM, said:

Actually I'm sure you can take just about any book from hop on pop to the encyclopedia and find "eleveness" as you put it so that proves nothing. As for the bible, unfortunately for you, it is not saturated with 9/11 prophecies. If I am wrong, show where it refers to New York City, The twin trade towers, Osama Bin Laden, Planes, etc...

The plaintext could hardly be expected to give the precise names of people and events that did not exist then, but they are alluded to.

New York City is Babylon the Great (Rev. 17), the great city (Rev. 11), Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 10:19), the strutting Ram (Dan. 8), the beast out of the water (Rev. 13), etc.

The Twin Towers are the tower of Babel (Gen. 11), Goliath (1 Sam. 17), the trees that bore no fruit (Deut. 20:20), the horns of the strutting ram (Dan. 8), the fig tree that Jesus withered (Mark 11), the temple (Matt. 24:2), the two-horned beast out of the earth (Rev. 13:11), the two criminals crucified alongside Jesus, the cross on which Jesus was crucified, the two witnesses (Rev. 11), Jesus Christ, etc, etc.

The pentagon represented the dragon, the five wounds suffered by Christ and Jesus Christ, etc.

Osama bin Laden represented Jesus Christ, as did Pope John Paul II. bin Laden also reprsented the angel of the abyss (Rev. 9:11).

The airplanes are represented by the four horsemen of the apocalypse, the flying goat with a single horn (Daniel 8), the slingshot David killed Goliath with (1 Sam. 17), etc.

Many biblical scenes were played out on 9/11, which is why some of the 'parts' were interchangeable. So the twin towers and pentagon represented Jesus Christ because 9/11 represented the Crucifixion. But Osama bin Laden also represented Jesus Christ because 9/11 also represented Jesus' overturning the tables of the moneychangers.

This post has been edited by blue triangle: 30 October 2009 - 06:36 AM

[digitalartist]

blue triangle, on 30 October 2009 - 02:34 AM, said:

That's of course true, but the fact that the film came out so close to 9/11 was no coincidemce, I believe. It was synchronicity, Jung's word for meaningful coincidence. I don't say that because of this one event - that could easily have been coincidence, but because there were so many of them (see below).

So close to 9/11? The release date for the "Two Towers" was December 18, 2002 http://archives.theo...ovie/dates.html Im not sure how you consider more than a year between the two as close.

blue triangle said:

In any numerical feature of anything there is a 1-in-11 chance of finding a multiple of 11 (assuming we are dealing with a whole number). However, there was a 'clustering' effect around 9/11 - caused by synchronicity - that was designed to catch our attention. The number 11 was built into 9/11 (incidentally, so was the number 5). The date was the 11th, flight 11 hit first (not second or fourth but first - that itself increases its significance), the towers resembled 11 and had 110 storeys, etc, etc, etc. It's willful blindness not to see that something is going on here. If you really want to be convinced, go to september11news.com.

The towers also resemble two lowercase L's or the roman numeral 2. With the two towers movie release more than a year after the 9/11 attack, it does seem that your comments on clustering and synchronicity may not be accurate.

blue triangle said:

That's something that someone deliberately constructed so that the numbers would give that message. But what if there actually was a 5-day war, involving 142 Israelies, 154 Arabs and 69 oil wells? Do you see the difference? 9/11 was not a fictional scenario. It happened. The numbers were built into the event, the Bible and other cultural artifacts and they form a clear message.

The point was to show that you can play around with numbers until they support any theory you would like.

blue triangle said:

All forms of his name can be used, although obviously his full name has the most significance. Interesting that it came to 110 though, is it not. I don't know Bob Taylor's full name, but I do know Osama bin Laden's full name, so let's try both versions.

Osama bin Laden (o) = 110 = 11 x 10
Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden (o) = 209 = 11 x 19

Hmm, interesting.

Not as interesting as you would like people to believe.

Bob Taylor = 110 = 11 x 10
Bobby Taylor = 169 = 11 x 15.36
Robert Taylor = 137 = 11 x 12.45

Osama Bin Laden = 110 = 11 x 10
Osam Bin Mohammed Bin Awad Bin Laden = 261 = 11 x 23.72

Only Bob Taylor fits ( no other variations) and Osama Bin Laden's full name doesn't fit either just the version you claim is his full name but isn't. See Here for his full name http://en.wikipedia....Osama_bin_Laden

blue triangle said:

The plaintext could hardly be expected to give the precise names of people and events that did not exist then, but they are alluded to.

New York City is Babylon the Great (Rev. 17), the great city (Rev. 11), Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 10:19), the strutting Ram (Dan. 8), the beast out of the water (Rev. 13), etc.

The Twin Towers are the tower of Babel (Gen. 11), Goliath (1 Sam. 17), the trees that bore no fruit (Deut. 20:20), the horns of the strutting ram (Dan. 8), the fig tree that Jesus withered (Mark 11), the temple (Matt. 24:2), the two-horned beast out of the earth (Rev. 13:11), the two criminals crucified alongside Jesus, the cross on which Jesus was crucified, the two witnesses (Rev. 11), Jesus Christ, etc, etc.

The pentagon represented the dragon, the five wounds suffered by Christ and Jesus Christ, etc.

Osama bin Laden represented Jesus Christ, as did Pope John Paul II. bin Laden also reprsented the angel of the abyss (Rev. 9:11).

The airplanes are represented by the four horsemen of the apocalypse, the flying goat with a single horn (Daniel 8), the slingshot David killed Goliath with (1 Sam. 17), etc.

Many biblical scenes were played out on 9/11, which is why some of the 'parts' were interchangeable. So the twin towers and pentagon represented Jesus Christ because 9/11 represented the Crucifixion. But Osama bin Laden also represented Jesus Christ because 9/11 also represented Jesus' overturning the tables of the moneychangers.

In this case you are really reaching. Especially in cases like Goliath that depicts a living creature that you somehow have turned it around to say it is actually a representation of the twin towers of new york.

The more I look into your "supporting evidence" the more sure I am that it does not support your theory.

[blue triangle]

digitalartist, on 30 October 2009 - 03:42 PM, said:

So close to 9/11? The release date for the "Two Towers" was December 18, 2002 http://archives.theo...ovie/dates.html Im not sure how you consider more than a year between the two as close.

I do consider a year to be close, yes. A few years or even decades either side of the new millenium is nothing. Many of the events influenced by 9/11 took place many years before 9/11. For instance, the Great Northeast USA Blackout (which affected a large part of the northeastern states, including new York) took place on 11/9/65 (11 x 1190 days before 9/11). The Birds was released in 1963, the link to 9/11 being that the attacks by the birds took place during the weekend when Mitch Bremner's sister celebrated her 11th birthday.

digitalartist, on 30 October 2009 - 03:42 PM, said:

The towers also resemble two lowercase L's or the roman numeral 2.

...as in John Paul II.

digitalartist, on 30 October 2009 - 03:42 PM, said:

The point was to show that you can play around with numbers until they support any theory you would like.

Yes you can, but this is a red herring. The relevant question is: does a numerical code exist within the NIV Bible? I think I have given enough evidence to say ''Yes''. If you look at the first page on my website, The Signature Of Christ, you will see a regular array of six numerical 'signatures' that are standard values for popular names and titles for Jesus Christ. A very conservative estimate of the likelihood of such an occurence is about 1 in 100000. The real odds, though, will be much higher. As an empirical test I tried to find the same phenomenon in some of my wife's crime novels. I found the odd random 'hit', as would be expected, but nothing like the number of hits in the NIV. Moreover - and this is the crucial point - the numerical signatures were arranged in regular strings of 6 and 12 words, obtained simply by cutting the first 24 words into four 6-word strings. The number 6 is meaningful hereecause the words describe God's creation of the universe, which Genesis tells us took place over 6 days. It is this confluence of meaningful numbers and words - 6 signatures of Christ, encoded in strings of 6 words, in a passage describing the 6 days of creation - that is significant, because it is not what we should expect if the winds of chance had been blowing.

digitalartist, on 30 October 2009 - 03:42 PM, said:

Osama Bin Laden = 110 = 11 x 10
Osam Bin Mohammed Bin Awad Bin Laden = 261 = 11 x 23.72

Only Bob Taylor fits ( no other variations) and Osama Bin Laden's full name doesn't fit either just the version you claim is his full name but isn't.

I am spelling 'Mohammed' as 'Muhammad', as this variant is more popular. If so, we obtain

Osama bin Laden (o) = 110 = 11 x 10

Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden (o) = 209 = 11 x 19

Osama bin Awad bin Muhammad bin Laden (o) = 263
Messiah (s) = 263

As I said, bin Laden represents Christ in the 9/11 drama.

digitalartist, on 30 October 2009 - 03:42 PM, said:

In this case you are really reaching. Especially in cases like Goliath that depicts a living creature that you somehow have turned it around to say it is actually a representation of the twin towers of new york.

The more I look into your "supporting evidence" the more sure I am that it does not support your theory.

Goliath represented worldly power, military might, brute strength, etc, the very qualities embodied by the 9/11 targets.

[sam12six]

I don't usually like to brag about my super powers in the world of decoding world events, but I've been inspired by this thread.

The other day I walked into a 7/11 and bought 2 items (2+7/11 or 9/11)
Those 2 items were gummy worms and a jolt cola
Gummy worms - like little snakes (midgard serpent)
Jolt cola - a shock (like what might happen if you fought the god of thunder, Thor)

This proves without a doubt that 9/11 was Loki's attempt to bring about Ragnarok

BTW: If you're wondering how qualified I am to make these random connections and claim some higher wisdom, let me point out that I'm 37 years old and have been "training" to choose my food for at least 35 years.

I would let you know what my lunch today says about last year's American Idol winner, but I just don't think you're all ready for that kind of enlightenment.

[merril]

How many rams or goats have existed since ancient times? Or, been written about in serious texts? And, what do those have to say about our human dilema? Too many to count or re-interpret, I suspect.

Thus, why is the Bible special? I am simply asking if it really holds inspired knowledge, or if it's text is still relevant.

One other matter, this numerization of the NIV seems somewhat arbitrary, in that the ancient texts used hebrew and greek numerical script. Yes, it was translated into hindu-arabic. The number "1" was not originally used (eliminating the comparison to a high-rise modern office building}.

Any layers of meaning, over centuries, have surely taken on new aspects of possible interpretaion, when using any of numerous methods of numerization to try and find whatever is hidden or revealed in the text.


What would have been nice, is if people who aim to wield brutal or negative power would do so with more concern for the rights of those they wish to affect. In that respect, people and nations do stray from the straight and narrow, when imposing degrees of suppression or violence.

[merril]

Blue Triangle mentioned something about the World Trade Towers, in comparison to Goliath, and various ill-begotten worldly pursuits.

Here is a list of the business occupants as of September, 2001.


Businesses that had offices in the two towers.


Which ones were unethical, as of that day?

Blue Triangle, which would you change, and how?

[digitalartist]

blue triangle, on 30 October 2009 - 07:43 PM, said:

I do consider a year to be close, yes. A few years or even decades either side of the new millenium is nothing. Many of the events influenced by 9/11 took place many years before 9/11. For instance, the Great Northeast USA Blackout (which affected a large part of the northeastern states, including new York) took place on 11/9/65 (11 x 1190 days before 9/11). The Birds was released in 1963, the link to 9/11 being that the attacks by the birds took place during the weekend when Mitch Bremner's sister celebrated her 11th birthday.

Of course you believe that a year, decade, century, millennium or more are close. You have to or your entire theory is useless. This does not mean that by expanding the time frame to as large as you need, the supposed supporting evidence actually supports your theory. On the contrary, the greater you expand the time frame the greater the odds that what you find is mere coincidence. You chose as one point the blackout of 1965. The blackout did indeed affect Canada and Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont, New York, and New Jersey. The biggest land area affected was Canada I believe. It was caused by a faulty relay. I'm interested how 9/11 rippled back through time and cause a relay to become faulty.

blue triangle said:

...as in John Paul II.

as in John Paul the second not John Paul the 11th

blue triangle said:

Yes you can, but this is a red herring. The relevant question is: does a numerical code exist within the NIV Bible? I think I have given enough evidence to say ''Yes''. If you look at the first page on my website, The Signature Of Christ, you will see a regular array of six numerical 'signatures' that are standard values for popular names and titles for Jesus Christ. A very conservative estimate of the likelihood of such an occurence is about 1 in 100000. The real odds, though, will be much higher. As an empirical test I tried to find the same phenomenon in some of my wife's crime novels. I found the odd random 'hit', as would be expected, but nothing like the number of hits in the NIV. Moreover - and this is the crucial point - the numerical signatures were arranged in regular strings of 6 and 12 words, obtained simply by cutting the first 24 words into four 6-word strings. The number 6 is meaningful hereecause the words describe God's creation of the universe, which Genesis tells us took place over 6 days. It is this confluence of meaningful numbers and words - 6 signatures of Christ, encoded in strings of 6 words, in a passage describing the 6 days of creation - that is significant, because it is not what we should expect if the winds of chance had been blowing.

Actually you have not provided evidence of a numerical code within the NIV. You have assigned numbers to letters (numerology) but you chose what numbers to assign (at least the A=1 Z=800 part). You had to choose those because the normal assignments (A=6, B=12, etc...) didn't come up with any support for your theory. When you manipulate the data, it contaminates the study and provides no support for the theory. Your reference to the numbers 6, 12 and 24 are not multiples of 11 and do not tie into 9/11 at all.

blue triangle said:

I am spelling 'Mohammed' as 'Muhammad', as this variant is more popular. If so, we obtain

Osama bin Laden (o) = 110 = 11 x 10

Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden (o) = 209 = 11 x 19

Osama bin Awad bin Muhammad bin Laden (o) = 263
Messiah (s) = 263

As I said, bin Laden represents Christ in the 9/11 drama.

Still you declared in your earlier post that Osama's full name was a multiple of 11 and it isn't not even when you use the alternate spelling for Mohammed. I noticed you stopped using the multiple of 11 for Osama's full name as it no longer fits your theory and actually detracts from it.

Full name with Mohammed = 261 = 11 x 23.72
Full name with Muhammad = 263 = 11 x 23.90

Using Osama Bin Muhammad Bin Laden is incorrect and is not now nor has it ever been his full name.

blue triangle said:

Goliath represented worldly power, military might, brute strength, etc, the very qualities embodied by the 9/11 targets.

This is such a poor attempt to tie a biblical character into 9/11 that it would be laughable if it weren't so sad.


It is obvious, in much of what you have said, that you are misconstruing coincidence as affirmation. You said you trained for 3 years and have been at this for 8 years if I remember right. In that time you didn't even check for the correct full name of Osama Bin Laden, just accepted an incorrect full name and used it as support for your theory. 8 years for you, a trained person, to believe you were right on that point and only a few days for me, an untrained person to prove you wrong on that point. It is a shame, in that 3 years of training, that they didn't teach you the three most important things. Logic, Common Sense and Research.

[blue triangle]

merril, on 31 October 2009 - 01:53 AM, said:

How many rams or goats have existed since ancient times? Or, been written about in serious texts? And, what do those have to say about our human dilema? Too many to count or re-interpret, I suspect.

Very few of these rams and goats are in the Bible, the most influential written document in existence. With respect, your not looking at the entire picture here. Along with the creatures themselves, it's the meaning of the passages they are used in, the position of the passages in the Bible and the numerical properties of these passages that provide the message, in a statistically-improbable confluence of meaningfully-related elements.

merril, on 31 October 2009 - 01:53 AM, said:

Thus, why is the Bible special? I am simply asking if it really holds inspired knowledge, or if it's text is still relevant.

Yes, I think the Bible is inspired. The existence of an encoded message is itself evidence of inspiration. The code was placed within the Bible by a very sophisticated form of synchronicity, or meaningful coincidence. Synchronicity is one of the principal methods by which God communicates with us. Many Christians (as do members of other faiths) report synchronicity in their lives, much of it centred on the Bible. They have a problem on their mind, open the Bible and see a passage that answers it. Or it may come from a church sermon or even an advert on he side of a bus. One of the principal indicators of spiritual growth is the number of synchronicities one experiences. I think this explains why the Bible is such an inspired document: it was written, translated and compiled by some very spiritual people.

merril, on 31 October 2009 - 01:53 AM, said:

One other matter, this numerization of the NIV seems somewhat arbitrary, in that the ancient texts used hebrew and greek numerical script. Yes, it was translated into hindu-arabic. The number "1" was not originally used (eliminating the comparison to a high-rise modern office building}.

Any layers of meaning, over centuries, have surely taken on new aspects of possible interpretaion, when using any of numerous methods of numerization to try and find whatever is hidden or revealed in the text.

The numeration systems I use are the three most important systems in the Kabbalah. The most important of all, the standard value system, is the English equivalent of the Hebrew alphabetic numeration system. This itself derived from the Greek alphabetic numeration system and all three are in fact part of the code (although I am calling them one system here).

You're right in saying that meaning can change with time. The meaning Jewish kabbalists extract from the Torah is not always the same as the meaning I take from the NIV Bible, although they have many points in common. I am intepreting it from a Christian perspective and in a modern context, although I have learned much from reading kabbalistic intepretations.

merril, on 31 October 2009 - 01:53 AM, said:

What would have been nice, is if people who aim to wield brutal or negative power would do so with more concern for the rights of those they wish to affect. In that respect, people and nations do stray from the straight and narrow, when imposing degrees of suppression or violence.

I agree. The abuse of power is the fundamental human problem. In an ideal world only the most ethical, mature and spiritual people would be able to wield temporal power, but in the real world that is rarely the case.

[blue triangle]

merril, on 31 October 2009 - 02:03 AM, said:

Blue Triangle mentioned something about the World Trade Towers, in comparison to Goliath, and various ill-begotten worldly pursuits.

Here is a list of the business occupants as of September, 2001.


Businesses that had offices in the two towers.


Which ones were unethical, as of that day?

Blue Triangle, which would you change, and how?

I looked at the list and noticed that it was dominated by the fat-cat professions. Number one was finance, avarice being the very lifeblood of the beast, of which the towers were archetypal manifestations. They were a church built for the worship of mammon and that is why they were destroyed on 9/11. God was pointing to the very source of our suffering: our own greed.

[Coffey]

The Bible may well have been edited to death, but God is always several steps ahead of any editor. I do not believe that the Bible is wholly the work of God, however. Insofar as it is the work of God it is perfect. Insofar as it is the work of man it is imperfect. The Bible is like an onion, with several layers of meaning. The surface layers contain more of man, the deeper layers more of God. Rabbis talk of four levels of understanding of the Torah, from a literal level of understanding, for children and people of limited understand, to a mystical level. I believe this is true for the Christian Bible too. Unfortunately, most Christians understand the Bible at the literal level.
[/quote]


The bible was a book of fiction that someone or some people wrote to try and teach people morals and the difference of right and wrong. It's stupid people that have taken it and blown it out of proportion that is the problem with the bible. If there is a God then he probably thinks all the people who worship him and take it seriously are fools.

[blue triangle]

digitalartist, on 31 October 2009 - 05:12 AM, said:

Of course you believe that a year, decade, century, millennium or more are close. You have to or your entire theory is useless. This does not mean that by expanding the time frame to as large as you need, the supposed supporting evidence actually supports your theory. On the contrary, the greater you expand the time frame the greater the odds that what you find is mere coincidence. You chose as one point the blackout of 1965. The blackout did indeed affect Canada and Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont, New York, and New Jersey. The biggest land area affected was Canada I believe. It was caused by a faulty relay. I'm interested how 9/11 rippled back through time and cause a relay to become faulty.

Please don't misquote me. I said that a few years or decades either side of the millenium are nothing. 36 years - the timespan between the blackout and 9/11 - is only 1.8% of 2000 years, the timespan between the first and second comings. As for whether you believe that 9/11 could ripple back in time and cause a relay to become faulty, that depends on you worldview. If your worldview has room for synchronicity, divine intervention, prophecy and similar phenomena then you will be in a position to accept that this was possible.

digitalartist, on 31 October 2009 - 05:12 AM, said:

as in John Paul the second not John Paul the 11th

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, here, but I was trying to show how every property of the number 11, even its visual semblance to the roman numerals for 2, might have been utilised.

Incidentally,

John Paul the Second (o) = 242 = 11 x 11 x 2

John Paul II, as I already pointed out, has an ordinal value of 151, the same as 'Jesus Christ', who I am saying the Pope represented.

digitalartist, on 31 October 2009 - 05:12 AM, said:

Actually you have not provided evidence of a numerical code within the NIV. You have assigned numbers to letters (numerology) but you chose what numbers to assign (at least the A=1 Z=800 part). You had to choose those because the normal assignments (A=6, B=12, etc...) didn't come up with any support for your theory. When you manipulate the data, it contaminates the study and provides no support for the theory. Your reference to the numbers 6, 12 and 24 are not multiples of 11 and do not tie into 9/11 at all.

Those 'normal assignments' are simply another system of gematria, which is a modern invention based on the ancient sumerian sexagesimal system. However, the ordinal value system, sometimes called simple English gematria, is just as normal and more natural and elegant. It also has a long history of use by Christian kabbalists, occultists and (in the Hebrew language) by Jewish kabbalists. Anyway, what makes you think that there is no information encoded within the NIV under the A = 6 system?

The first 18 (6 + 6 + 6) words of the NIV have an ordinal value of 906. Under the A = 6 system,

Jesus Christ = 906

digitalartist, on 31 October 2009 - 05:12 AM, said:

Still you declared in your earlier post that Osama's full name was a multiple of 11 and it isn't not even when you use the alternate spelling for Mohammed. I noticed you stopped using the multiple of 11 for Osama's full name as it no longer fits your theory and actually detracts from it.

Using Osama Bin Muhammad Bin Laden is incorrect and is not now nor has it ever been his full name.

You are correct: I should have said Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden is a fuller version of his name. The reason I focused on 'Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden' in the first place is because this is the name bin Laden started using for himself after 9/11. Actually, he is called by many names. Here are some:

Osama bin Laden,
Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden
Osama Bin Muhammad Bin Laden ,
Osama Bin Laden Muhammad al Wahal Bin Laden

Also Osama can be spelled Usama and Osamah, Muhammad can be spelled Mohammed and Laden can be spelled Ladin, so there are many possible variations of his name using the Latin alphabet.

The reason I focus on 'Osama bin Laden' on my site and in forum discussions and regard its gematria as more important that the others is because this is the name by which he is most commonly known, by far. Doing a Google search on the names above (with all the variants) gave the following numbers of hits (excluding those below 100000)

Osama bin Laden = 7,090,000
Usama bin Laden = 431,000
Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden = 240,000
Osama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin = 174,000
Usama bin Ladin = 174000
Osama bin Ladin = 112000
Osama Bin Muhammad Bin Laden = 109,000

As you see, the most popular name by far was the one with the most significant ordinal value, 110, Osama bin Laden. Incidentally, Usama bin laden, the second most popular variant, is 116, 911 swivelled 180 degrees.

digitalartist, on 31 October 2009 - 05:12 AM, said:

It is obvious, in much of what you have said, that you are misconstruing coincidence as affirmation. You said you trained for 3 years and have been at this for 8 years if I remember right. In that time you didn't even check for the correct full name of Osama Bin Laden, just accepted an incorrect full name and used it as support for your theory. 8 years for you, a trained person, to believe you were right on that point and only a few days for me, an untrained person to prove you wrong on that point. It is a shame, in that 3 years of training, that they didn't teach you the three most important things. Logic, Common Sense and Research.

You are making very much of very little here, a common tactic of the debunker. Moreover, you don't apply these principles very impressively yourself, so don't try to lecture me.

This post has been edited by blue triangle: 31 October 2009 - 11:04 PM