[seax]

Professor Ann Currey of South Hampton University is leading a group of scholars in questioning the numbers of the Battle of Agincourt. She claims the French forces might have been a more 'even match' to Henry the V's forces.

Questions are drawn to using these battle in military handbooks for modern day warfare...with Afganistan being the comparison. Is nothing sacred anymore? Regardless of the doubts of the scholars...Henry V...defeated the French...at Agincourt...and we got the famous 'middle finger salute' that we use up to this day...If anyone does not know what I mean I will gladly provide you with and explanation...but here is the article.

http://www.nytimes.c...rt.html?_r=1&hp

best regards,
seax

This post has been edited by seax: 25 October 2009 - 12:21 AM

[Rhungobains]

There's always been questions about the true numbers at Azincourt. I think we can safely say that Henry won, but there are is valid ground for thinking that perhaps the facts may have become distorted over time:

Henry spent a lot of money on getting an army together to invade. Upon arrival in France, he sieged a place called Harfleur. The siege was a bit of a disaster for the English. The town held out for quite some time and due to this lots of Henry's army died through diseases like dysentery. Eventually they broke through, but the victory was costly. Henry was now faced with a depleted army. He needed to win a big battle to prove that he hadn't wasted people's money. So he decided to move further into France, basically looking for a fight. This obviously leads to Azincourt. It can be said that perhaps the battle figures were distorted to make Henry's victory look a little more heroic in England to cover up the fact that the campaign was mostly a disaster, and over time the hyperbole just became fact, cemented by Shakespeare. But who knows, maybe it was as amazing a victory as people say.

This post has been edited by Rhungobains: 25 October 2009 - 02:10 AM

[seax]

Rhungobains, on 24 October 2009 - 10:07 PM, said:

There's always been questions about the true numbers at Azincourt. I think we can safely say that Henry won, but there are is valid ground for thinking that perhaps the facts may have become distorted over time:

Henry spent a lot of money on getting an army together to invade. Upon arrival in France, he sieged a place called Harfleur. The siege was a bit of a disaster for the English. The town held out for quite some time and due to this lots of Henry's army died through diseases like dysentery. Eventually they broke through, but the victory was costly. Henry was now faced with a depleted army. He needed to win a big battle to prove that he hadn't wasted people's money. So he decided to move further into France, basically looking for a fight. This obviously leads to Azincourt. It can be said that perhaps the battle figures were distorted to make Henry's victory look a little more heroic in England to cover up the fact that the campaign was mostly a disaster, and over time the hyperbole just became fact, cemented by Shakespeare. But who knows, maybe it was as amazing a victory as people say.

I am sure you have heard the story of 'flipping someone the bird'. It came from the French Barons telling their soldiers to cut off the middle fingers of the English archers captured at Agincort because of their deadly use of the longbow. Pheasant feathers were used to feather the bows and the 'yew' to make the bow. So 'pluck yew' meant to pull back the string. Since the English won the battle the archers would hold up their middle fingers and say 'pluck yew' meaning they could still shoot their arrows. Also...to give someone the bird...symbolizes the pheasant feathers. Also..to this day a proper salute to the French...


best regards,
seax

[keithisco]

seax, on 25 October 2009 - 03:49 AM, said:

I am sure you have heard the story of 'flipping someone the bird'. It came from the French Barons telling their soldiers to cut off the middle fingers of the English archers captured at Agincort because of their deadly use of the longbow. Pheasant feathers were used to feather the bows and the 'yew' to make the bow. So 'pluck yew' meant to pull back the string. Since the English won the battle the archers would hold up their middle fingers and say 'pluck yew' meaning they could still shoot their arrows. Also...to give someone the bird...symbolizes the pheasant feathers. Also..to this day a proper salute to the French...


best regards,
seax

I always thought it was the reversed "V for Victory" sign that came out of Agincourt. The French would cut off both the index and middle fingers to prevent the archers from using the Longbow

[stevewinn]

keithisco, on 25 October 2009 - 09:08 AM, said:

I always thought it was the reversed "V for Victory" sign that came out of Agincourt. The French would cut off both the index and middle fingers to prevent the archers from using the Longbow

that's a myth. according to QI. Liink

[Rhungobains]

seax, on 25 October 2009 - 02:49 AM, said:

I am sure you have heard the story of 'flipping someone the bird'. It came from the French Barons telling their soldiers to cut off the middle fingers of the English archers captured at Agincort because of their deadly use of the longbow. Pheasant feathers were used to feather the bows and the 'yew' to make the bow. So 'pluck yew' meant to pull back the string. Since the English won the battle the archers would hold up their middle fingers and say 'pluck yew' meaning they could still shoot their arrows. Also...to give someone the bird...symbolizes the pheasant feathers. Also..to this day a proper salute to the French...


best regards,
seax

I have to admit I didn't know that's where 'the bird' came from. I'd known of the 'V' salute myth. Can we assume this is the first instance of such a thing happening in war, or is there a chance that it's just ascribed to Agincourt because of the high number of archers present that day and because of the magnitude of the battle?

[seax]

Rhungobains, on 25 October 2009 - 08:32 AM, said:

I have to admit I didn't know that's where 'the bird' came from. I'd known of the 'V' salute myth. Can we assume this is the first instance of such a thing happening in war, or is there a chance that it's just ascribed to Agincourt because of the high number of archers present that day and because of the magnitude of the battle?

The archers were deadly with the bows...and according to history is what won the battle..along with the French Knights truddling through the mud making easy targets. I have also heard the 'v' salute also...but...I like the salute to the French better...


best regards,
seax

[Bullseye]

Goose feathers,not pheasant,I make longbow arrows.What's always p*ssed the French off is that English peasant bowmen slaughtered the best of the French aristocracy (just was'nt the done thing),the French never trusted their own peasants enough to allow them to arm themselves.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=OAvmLDkAgAM