[coberst]

We perceive our self as an object

‘Object is container’ is, I think, a useful metaphor. The object has an inside and an outside with a boundary separating the two. It is possibly the reason we think of the existence of souls and spirits. Humans think about them self as an object. We see an example of this interior and exterior when we communicate on the Internet. In our face-to-face communication in the real world the exterior of a person becomes very important in our concept of that person. On the Internet such is not the case and this fact causes situations between the two modes of communication.

When most people contact one another there is only a combining of exteriors. Few occasions develop when two people make a significant contact of interiors. James Baldwin put it succinctly when he said “mirrors can only lie”. The mirror exposes only the exterior and says nothing about the interior; I find that, as I grow older, I have less and less exterior about which to communicate and communication about the interior seems much easier with total strangers on the Internet than with those close to me.

Marshall McLuhan was particularly interested in Technology as Extension of the Human Body. “An extension occurs when an individual or society makes or uses something in a way that extends the range of the human body and mind in a fashion that is new. The shovel we use for digging holes is a kind of extension of the hands and feet. The spade is similar to the cupped hand, only it is stronger, less likely to break, and capable of removing more dirt per scoop than the hand. A microscope or telescope is a way of seeing that is an extension of the eye.”

Going further in this vein the auto is an extension of the foot. However there are negative results from all such extensions. “Amputations” represent the unintended and un-reflected counterparts of such extensions.

“Every extension of mankind, especially technological extensions, has the effect of amputating or modifying some other extension… The extension of a technology like the automobile "amputates" the need for a highly developed walking culture, which in turn causes cities and countries to develop in different ways. The telephone extends the voice, but also amputates the art of penmanship gained through regular correspondence. These are a few examples, and almost everything we can think of is subject to similar observations…We have become people who regularly praise all extensions, and minimize all amputations. McLuhan believed that we do so at our own peril.”

McLuhan was concerned about man's willful blindness to the downside of technology. In his later years McLuhan developed a scientific basis for his thought around what he termed the tetrad. The tetrad is four laws, framed as questions, which give us a useful instrument for studying our culture. What does it (the medium or technology) extend?
What does it make obsolete? What is retrieved? What does the technology reverse into if it is over-extended?

McLuhan’s gravestone carries the inscription The Truth Shall Make You Free. We do not have to like or even agree with everything that McLuhan said. However, we would be wise to remember that his was a life of great insight and it was dedicated to showing wo/man the truth about the world we live in, and especially the hidden consequences of the technologies we develop.

In the book The Birth and Death of Meaning Earnest Becker provides us with a synthesis of the knowledge about the extensions of the human body that McLuhan spoke of and science certified through research.

Becker informs us that the “self” is in the body but is not part of the body; it is symbolic and is not physical. “The body is an object in the field of the self: it is one of the things we inhabit…A person literally projects or throws himself out of the body, and anywhere at all…A man’s “Me” is the sum total of all that he can call his, not only his body and his mind, but his clothes and house, his wife and children, [etc].” The human can be symbolically located wherever s/he thinks part of her really exists or belongs.

It is said that the more insecure we are the more important these symbolic extensions of the self become. When we invest undue value onto such matters as desecrating a piece of cloth that symbolizes our nation is an indication that our self-valuation has declined and this overvaluation of a symbol can help compensate that loss. We get a good feeling about own value by obtaining value in the pseudopod as the flag.

In conceiving our self as a container that overflows with various and important extensions that our technology provides us we might appear like a giant amoeba spread out over the land with a center in the self. These pseudopods are not just patriotic symbols and important things but include silly things such as a car or a neck tie. We can experience nervous breakdowns when others do not respect our particular objects of reverence.

[Mr Walker]

I perceive myself as a sapience. Sure this sapience is contained in an organic host, but that host is largely rirelevant, except as a form of life support. The host faces so many physical limitations, but the sapient self has none. It travels the universe without let or hindrance, and encompasses the smallest particle and the infinity of the multiverse.

Who/what i am is contained within my sapience, not my organic host. I would be almost as happy in a computer(ai) mind, interfaced with a robotic body, particularly now that the organic host is increasingly falling down on its job lol

This post has been edited by Mr Walker: 13 November 2009 - 11:10 AM

[Bocat]

coberst, on 28 October 2009 - 05:08 AM, said:

We perceive our self as an object

‘Object is container’ is, I think, a useful metaphor. The object has an inside and an outside with a boundary separating the two. It is possibly the reason we think of the existence of souls and spirits. Humans think about them self as an object. We see an example of this interior and exterior when we communicate on the Internet. In our face-to-face communication in the real world the exterior of a person becomes very important in our concept of that person. On the Internet such is not the case and this fact causes situations between the two modes of communication.

When most people contact one another there is only a combining of exteriors. Few occasions develop when two people make a significant contact of interiors. James Baldwin put it succinctly when he said “mirrors can only lie”. The mirror exposes only the exterior and says nothing about the interior; I find that, as I grow older, I have less and less exterior about which to communicate and communication about the interior seems much easier with total strangers on the Internet than with those close to me.

Marshall McLuhan was particularly interested in Technology as Extension of the Human Body. “An extension occurs when an individual or society makes or uses something in a way that extends the range of the human body and mind in a fashion that is new. The shovel we use for digging holes is a kind of extension of the hands and feet. The spade is similar to the cupped hand, only it is stronger, less likely to break, and capable of removing more dirt per scoop than the hand. A microscope or telescope is a way of seeing that is an extension of the eye.”

Going further in this vein the auto is an extension of the foot. However there are negative results from all such extensions. “Amputations” represent the unintended and un-reflected counterparts of such extensions.

“Every extension of mankind, especially technological extensions, has the effect of amputating or modifying some other extension… The extension of a technology like the automobile "amputates" the need for a highly developed walking culture, which in turn causes cities and countries to develop in different ways. The telephone extends the voice, but also amputates the art of penmanship gained through regular correspondence. These are a few examples, and almost everything we can think of is subject to similar observations…We have become people who regularly praise all extensions, and minimize all amputations. McLuhan believed that we do so at our own peril.”

McLuhan was concerned about man's willful blindness to the downside of technology. In his later years McLuhan developed a scientific basis for his thought around what he termed the tetrad. The tetrad is four laws, framed as questions, which give us a useful instrument for studying our culture. What does it (the medium or technology) extend?
What does it make obsolete? What is retrieved? What does the technology reverse into if it is over-extended?

McLuhan’s gravestone carries the inscription The Truth Shall Make You Free. We do not have to like or even agree with everything that McLuhan said. However, we would be wise to remember that his was a life of great insight and it was dedicated to showing wo/man the truth about the world we live in, and especially the hidden consequences of the technologies we develop.

In the book The Birth and Death of Meaning Earnest Becker provides us with a synthesis of the knowledge about the extensions of the human body that McLuhan spoke of and science certified through research.

Becker informs us that the “self” is in the body but is not part of the body; it is symbolic and is not physical. “The body is an object in the field of the self: it is one of the things we inhabit…A person literally projects or throws himself out of the body, and anywhere at all…A man’s “Me” is the sum total of all that he can call his, not only his body and his mind, but his clothes and house, his wife and children, [etc].” The human can be symbolically located wherever s/he thinks part of her really exists or belongs.

It is said that the more insecure we are the more important these symbolic extensions of the self become. When we invest undue value onto such matters as desecrating a piece of cloth that symbolizes our nation is an indication that our self-valuation has declined and this overvaluation of a symbol can help compensate that loss. We get a good feeling about own value by obtaining value in the pseudopod as the flag.

In conceiving our self as a container that overflows with various and important extensions that our technology provides us we might appear like a giant amoeba spread out over the land with a center in the self. These pseudopods are not just patriotic symbols and important things but include silly things such as a car or a neck tie. We can experience nervous breakdowns when others do not respect our particular objects of reverence.

Okay,as a follower of Jesus I'd like to become totally immersed in a sacred dimension. It has been expressed as the kingdom of heaven. This kingdom,is no less than an infinity field...or you could express it as a state of being. People are asked to pray without ceasing,which means not constructing artifacts for worship but relationally entering into the love of the Son. Love is often spoken about but seldom is it experienced. I know this to be true through the distressed state of the world and the way that people desperately crave genuine love.

[Triade]

I do understand this article.
But I don't fully agree with what the title might imply.
Perceive ourselves as an "object".

I don't believe this is true. Ppl in general are far to subjective and maybe proud to "degrade" themselves mentally to see their own "self" (which they think is the body) as an object. It's a temple, some say, etc.


I don't know if most ppl actually realise how irrelevant the body actually is, to it all.
The fact that we're recreating skin in the lab..using stem cell research for example, should give a clue about how expendable the flesh is.


Exactly as the article says, we identify with our surroundings for some reason. The things we touch, own, and of course our own bodies. Thinking that if you maintain all that you'll reach enlightment maybe or inner peace.
Of course most ppl feel insecure without having all that comfort then. They try to define themselves with it.
It's even the language we use...when ppl ask what you do for an example. You answer "I am student" or "I am a doctor" or "I am unemployed and homeless". This is not something you really ARE. It's a phase you go through..it's something you live through. It's not your essence.
Just as others say "i am rich"...no, it's something you have. It's not YOURSELF. And it's passable, just as the body is. Which unconciously just adds to the insecurity..the body fades, so does the glory. Which is some cases may turn into fear and agression and corruptness..the feeling of the invitable, powerlessness. Trying to stay on top of the world when the body doesn't allow you to anymore for example.
Or with authority figures that turn corrupt (everyone knows an example of that)...because they perceive themselves as a word. "Authority" "Cop" "Person the gun". While it's not what they are. It's something they occupy themselves with. Losing the bigger picture and trying to find an endless meaning in what they do. "Making the world a better place." Deluding themselves in the fact that that's what they do and so they're going to heaven or whatever.

[TRUEYOUTRUEME]

I would tend to disagree with the title: "We percieve our self as an object" and would feel it to be better stated as: "We percieve our self through objects"

A true self eludes mankind for the most part but there are millions of way that people view their self through objects.

The majority of a person's thoughts, feelings and actions revolve around perceiving the body as an object. The majority of our actions in Life can be seen as serving some end towards our physical container, the body. From movement, to sleep, to digestion, to breathing, etc...

Other more intellectual or even emotional endeavors also concentrate for the most part on some sort of physical object. Thoughts and emotions about objects... our body, objects in our surroundings, etc...

The question it seems to me would be to ask what type of perception or action would be solely encompassing something that is not about an object but is purely about our self?

Is the self anything more then a theater of objects interacting? Or is there more?