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Are the Israel and Palatines, using the right war tactics in this conflict

#1 User is online   Ryinrea 


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Posted 28 October 2009 - 09:18 PM

Is it using the Right war Tactics


From Al Jazzer, take it with a grain of slat

Who Is Wrong - Israel Or Palestine?

Is Israel's Response To Hamas Correct?



I wondering after watching a couple of videos for a project. who do you think is wrong in the Israel/ Palatines conflict?

This post has been edited by Ryinrea: 28 October 2009 - 09:29 PM

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#2 User is offline   keithisco 


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Posted 28 October 2009 - 10:54 PM

View PostRyinrea, on 28 October 2009 - 10:18 PM, said:

Is it using the Right war Tactics


From Al Jazzer, take it with a grain of slat

Who Is Wrong - Israel Or Palestine?

Is Israel's Response To Hamas Correct?



I wondering after watching a couple of videos for a project. who do you think is wrong in the Israel/ Palatines conflict?



Who do YOU think is wrong or right, and why? And by Palatines, do you mean Palestinians?

#3 User is online   Ryinrea 


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Posted 28 October 2009 - 11:00 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 28 October 2009 - 04:54 PM, said:

Who do YOU think is wrong or right, and why? And by Palatines, do you mean Palestinians?

Yeah I do,



I think Israel is more wrong, but I also think what the Palestinians are doing is also wrong.

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I think that Israel is wrong in trying to take people land, but I think the way the Palestinians are going the wrong way in defending themselves.


I am saying that the way we consider them terrorist ect. I think, if they went like something like Ghindi or something. The whole world would behind them ^^.

This post has been edited by Ryinrea: 28 October 2009 - 11:08 PM

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#4 User is offline   keithisco 


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Posted 28 October 2009 - 11:04 PM

View PostRyinrea, on 29 October 2009 - 12:00 AM, said:

Yeah I do,



I think Israel is more wrong, but I also think what the Palestinians are doing is also wrong.

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OK, but what is wrong on both sides?

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 11:23 PM

Ha! "Correct war tactics", "international law", is the only thing that's keeping this conflict alive. If Israel was allowed to deal with the terrorists the same way Sri Lanka dealt with the Tamils, or the way Pakistan dealt with the Taliban, this conflict would've ended decades ago, and thousands of lives would've been spared.

This post has been edited by Pseudo Intellectual: 28 October 2009 - 11:26 PM

Whispers in the dark. Anonymous sources. Rumors. That is all it takes. After all, we all know what they [the Jews] are like, don’t we: inhuman, hardened. Capable of anything. Now all that remains is the defense, equally predictable: ‘Anti-Semitism? No, no, just criticism of Israel.’ - Mats Skogkär

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 10:14 AM

View PostRyinrea, on 29 October 2009 - 07:18 AM, said:

Is it using the Right war Tactics


From Al Jazzer, take it with a grain of slat

Who Is Wrong - Israel Or Palestine?

Is Israel's Response To Hamas Correct?



I wondering after watching a couple of videos for a project. who do you think is wrong in the Israel/ Palatines conflict?


Mostly Israel is at fault! They're the ones that keep on breaching the Oslo Accords by continuously building Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory, the West Bank. After which, I blame Hamas for being idiots and thinking they can defy the inevitable. Israel is a State and will remain a State despite what Hamas thinks or wants.

Also I blame you for putting these pro-Hamas videos on. If you're doing a project get your information from reliable and neutral sources, not from rubbish like this. Read and make your own mind up, don't listen to crap from a one sided point of view.
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Posted 29 October 2009 - 12:31 PM

Israel seems to be a lot more heavy handed, but that could be born out of what they see as a lack of progress in the peace process. Personally I think it's the Palestinian who need the biggest overhaul in their tactics. Randomly blowing up civilian targets, kidnapping people, and treating their children that they should seek death is not the way to win wide spread support. At least it seems those in the West Bank now have the right idea.

#8 User is offline   momentarylapseofreason 


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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:23 PM

I think this little anology below is great.

I really think there will be peace some day as the world becomes more secular, but not for another 25-50 yrs. If we are lucky in 15 yrs. If some crazy country doesn't nuke Isreal away first

Our Neighbor and Why We Have to Kill Him




He humiliates us by his very existence. Destroying him will give our lives meaning.

Our neighbor lives in the house in which our grandfather used to live. He claims he bought the first part of the house from a Turki, and later the second part from a British bank, but that doesn’t make the sale any less illegal: my family lived in that house for hundreds of years and we don’t accept the documents of sale. Now he’s living there. He is the son of monkeys and pigs.
The problem is that he’s not just brazen, he’s also strong, although he is a tiny guy.
The whole neighborhood hates him. He’s a thief and possessed by the devil. But he seems to be able to beat everyone. We tried to force him out of the house together, but it didn’t work. He has bulletproof windows, and the roof is made of inflammable material.
All we think about is him. Our own home is in ruins because all our efforts, all our money and ideas and energy are devoted solely to destroying our neighbor’s house. We’re utterly convinced that we will be perfectly happy just as soon as we’ve killed him and his house is a heap of smoking rubble. We live for one thing only: our neighbor’s demise. It’s a noble ambition for which we’re all willing to die.
Sometimes our neighbor seems to forget we exist, then we throw a couple of pebbles at his windows. If we’re lucky, there’s a window open and we toss a Molotov cocktail inside to start a nasty fire. That makes our neighbor angry, and that’s good. We don’t want him to forget us. Life means nothing to us as long as our neighbor’s living in that house. So we make sure he remembers us, even though we can’t force him out and he sometimes beats the hell out of us.
Every now and then our neighbor gets fed up with our stone-throwing — those are the best moments. Then he storms out of our grandfather’s house and smashes our kitchen or bathroom or refrigerator to pieces. By doing so he proves that it’s right that we hate him. We provoke him until he reveals his true demonic character. That’s what we live for. We can’t beat him, but there’s something satisfying about watching him kick our old, worn-out, empty refrigerator to shreds after we have tried to ransack one of his freezers — he has several, all full of food which he bought with the wealth he found in our grandfather’s house. What he does to us is much worse than our provocations, but we keep provoking him because that’s the main thing we want in life.
Our neighbor, the dog, wants us to leave him alone. We can’t. His death is our ultimate ambition in life. We live in our hovel, we grow nothing in our garden, and we leave our schoolbooks on the shelf because we dream of returning to our grandfather’s house and work solely towards our neighbor’s collapse. Nothing is allowed to distract us from that.
Our neighbor claims that when he bought the house, it was just a wooden hut on a piece of barren land that he turned into a palace. He claims he planted a fertile vegetable garden — that’s a lie. It was an estate with fertile soil and the bathrooms had gold taps; our grandfather told us so himself, we even keep the key to his house in a sacred place. If we had still been living in our grandfather’s house then we would have had all those freezers in which our neighbor keeps his food. The family of monkeys and pigs never lived there before; our neighbor’s existence is based on clever lies and forgeries.
We keep challenging him and when we’ve insulted him enough and managed to wreck some part of his house, he marches angrily into our place. We can’t stop him and we have no idea how long he’ll stay in our hovel, until one day he leaves. Then we lick our wounds in satisfaction and survey in intense pleasure all the destruction he left behind, and we show it to the world. Our scars prove to us and to the world that our cause is just. We know he doesn’t harm us when we leave him alone, but we want him to harm us. If he wouldn’t, the world would think he is just an ordinary guy. Which he isn’t. That’s why we provoke him. Without him harming us, we wouldn’t exist.
We want to kill him, but we don’t have the right weapons. He has the means to kill us all, but he doesn’t, the coward. If we had the weaponry he has, we would have killed him long ago. And the fact that he doesn’t kill us, although he could, is a sign of his unbearable arrogance.
Some, who don’t live in our neighborhood and who don’t know how things work around here, occasionally ask us, “Why do you keep provoking him when you know that he’ll hit back so ferociously?”
This question proves they are ignorant about our neighborhood. We do it because that’s what our life is about. Our neighbor, who’s a murderer of prophets, humiliates us just because he is there. That’s why we can’t think about anything else. Our grandfather’s honor is worth risking our own lives and those of our children and grandchildren. We have no future as long as our neighbor lives in peace and plenty. None of us in the neighborhood can build as long as his house remains standing.
Strangers sometimes try to persuade us that we ought to build a viable house on our own lot. But nothing is viable beside our neighbor’s stolen property. He is the burning focus of our existence. He is rich, so we are poor. He is powerful, so we are weak. He has to disappear.
A little further along in our neighborhood we have a friend who supplies us secretly with stones and Molotov cocktails. He’s working on a big bomb that will reduce our neighbor to a miserable pile of atoms in a fraction of a seco That bomb will kill us too — The neighborhood will be completely gone..nd.that hellish thought is almost erotic. Our neighbor will burn, and we will as well, but one thing is certain: we won’t feel inferior anymore; at last we’ll have beaten him, in death — which we don’t fear, but he does.




And that’s how it should be. Death will free us of the son of monkeys and pigs, and of our infuriating obsession with him




http://cousinavi.wor...leon-de-winter/

This post has been edited by momentarylapseofreason: 29 October 2009 - 01:27 PM

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It is a beautiful trait in the lovers character, that they think no evil of the object loved.

#9 User is offline   Roughneck 


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Posted 29 October 2009 - 02:17 PM

That man forgot to mention his neighbor has also been living there for thousands of years and that his grandfather's house was built atop lands long-ago claimed by the Jews.

Or has Judea suddenly become a fictional Tolkien-like fairytale land? When that man's grandfather, not liking his house to be named Judah, renamed it West Bank.
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#10 User is offline   Moon Monkey 


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Posted 29 October 2009 - 03:26 PM

I blame the romans.

#11 User is offline   acidhead 


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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:13 PM

View PostCorp, on 29 October 2009 - 05:31 AM, said:

Israel seems to be a lot more heavy handed, but that could be born out of what they see as a lack of progress in the peace process. Personally I think it's the Palestinian who need the biggest overhaul in their tactics. Randomly blowing up civilian targets, kidnapping people, and treating their children that they should seek death is not the way to win wide spread support. At least it seems those in the West Bank now have the right idea.



when people have lost everything and have nothing left to lose - they lose it

-apply that statement to the Palestinians and a person can understand their pain and suffering.
"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#12 User is offline   Moon Monkey 


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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:21 PM

View Postacidhead, on 29 October 2009 - 05:13 PM, said:

when people have lost everything and have nothing left to lose - they lose it

-apply that statement to the Palestinians and a person can understand their pain and suffering.

- apply that statement to the jews and a person can understand their determination to obtain a secure homeland.

#13 User is offline   acidhead 


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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:58 PM

View PostMoon Monkey, on 29 October 2009 - 10:21 AM, said:

- apply that statement to the jews and a person can understand their determination to obtain a secure homeland.



When the war ended the jewish religion was still just the jewish religion.

Once they established an Israeli state the jewish people became Israel people in the land of Palestine.

Say and feel what you like... the jewish people should have just went home after Europe was liberated.... just like everybody else did.
"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#14 User is offline   Moon Monkey 


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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:11 PM

View Postacidhead, on 29 October 2009 - 05:58 PM, said:

Say and feel what you like... the jewish people should have just went home after Europe was liberated.... just like everybody else did.

They did go home. Although as I have said before if my wife can have her maternal grandparents townhouse in central Berlin and her paternal grandparents villa on the croatian coast back I will ensure one more jew 'goes home' real soon.

This post has been edited by Moon Monkey: 29 October 2009 - 06:11 PM


#15 User is online   Ryinrea 


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Posted 29 October 2009 - 07:16 PM

Quote

Also I blame you for putting these pro-Hamas videos on. If you're doing a project get your information from reliable and neutral sources, not from rubbish like this. Read and make your own mind up, don't listen to crap from a one sided point of view.



I put up one thing from Al Jazzer, not all them are pro Hassm imo. If you looked at the young Turks they hate Hamas tactics as well. They think their both are going at the wrong way. And SO DO I.


And, from the Al jazzer one I said take it with a grain of slat I know it biased as hell. B


i get most of My information form the Goldstone Report.


It can be a little bit biased as well, but some are saying that Hamas using Human shields are I THINK somewhat true.

A country that is unbiased and has nothing to lose or gain from settling this conflict should be assisting in these negotiations, not the USA.



ProCon.ORG



Israel weren't responsible for any of the Americans deaths ether

There appears to be an acknowledgement, at last, that all the pressure needs to be directed at one party. I believe there is now a genuine and comparatively open high level US distrust of the Israelis both in the US and on the ground in the region.

Given that Obama is said to have very close contact with Fatah individuals, and has expressed an interest in talking with Hamas (albeit indirectly), Palestinians perhaps have a small amount of hope that it may all come to something, but I suppose the real battle for Obama will be in Washington.



Despite the wall building, the settlement expansion, the illegal siege and the collective punishment, you still think the Palestinians and other Arab states haven't done enough to placate paranoid Israel.

When will they have done enough? Never. It doesn't matter what they say or do, until Israel has taken the land it will keep setting new hurdles to avoid negotiation. It needs the fog of violence to hide the ethnic cleansing behind, all the while claiming everyone else hasn't gone far enough to make Israeli's feel secure when nothing could make them feel secure. How could Israel be the worlds official victim if there was security? It would destroy their entire modus operandi.


They've made it clear on numerous occasions that they wouldn't accept a state in the 1967 borders, but Israel will keep telling itself (and anyone who'll listen) that nothing can be done, that it doesn't feel safe, that it needs to keep killing people, and will keep stealing land until it's got what it wants.

To make a state within the 1967 borders impossible, Israel has built settlements within those borders, and walled off great chunks of the land it shouldn't even be on, so Israeli supporters blaming the Palestinians for any impasse whatsoever, in the teeth of reality, becomes more and more sad.

Hell I am just seeing the reality of this conflict and not propaganda from the news and the Un. I GO TO both sides of the story, before I make a Opinion about this conflict


Perhaps "placate" was the wrong word, but the overall meaning should be clear.

Taking it literally, why should the Palestinians have to placate Israel in the first place? Surely the decent thing to do, being as Israel was created by terrorists on the Palestinians land, would be for Israel to negotiate in good faith? Or at the very least, not kill, imprison, and steal - all the while claiming to want peace?

Just a suggestion, but treating people as sub human doesn't promote peace no matter who they are.

Looking at the naysayers

1. There are those bigots who deny Israel any country at all, considering it all ''Stolen land''. Some pretend that they hew to the 1967 lines but support Hamas's contention that this is all Islamic land This is the schizoid paradox.

2. There are those ignoramuses who have no idea of the true economic situation in Israel and consider that for the USA to "withdraw funds" would be the end of Israel.

3. There are those acrobatic viewers who manage to look at the whole situation and say that Israel does not want peace - managing to blind themselves voluntarily at the same time to the fact that Israel has peace treaties with both Egypt and Jordan and that Rabin brought the PLO as Israel's neighbours so that the Palestinian people would have a home.

4. There are those who find it difficult to accept that a new structure built among those standing for several years is not ''expanding a settlement'' but rather ''building a building'''.


I find it funny that you claim that I don't see what going on.. I tend to get my info from both sides, and saying that my stuff is all pro Hamma's or whatever is lol I think what they are doing is wrong on both sides of the table.


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If America Knew

This post has been edited by Ryinrea: 29 October 2009 - 08:13 PM

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