[Ufo Believer]

From - Infowars

“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” – Maurice Strong, 1992

It’s a history where the bankers have embedded themselves into the economy, building up infrastructure for a time, then bringing down the system within the United States in concert with the international economic warfare and the rise of global government.

It’s the collapse of Detroit, and like the Great Depression of the 20th Century, the looming Greater Depression of the 21st Century, and the collapse of Building 7 and the Twin Towers, it was a staged collapse. This stage of the game is De-industrialization.

Inside this agenda is a plan for global government to emerge from the ashes of the once great United States and for the era of national sovereignty itself to subside. To achieve their goal, an economic squeeze is placed upon the nation and environmental pretexts are being used to strangle independence and viability– in America it has been the NAFTA, GATT, WTO and United Nations treaties that have wrecked her integrity and pillaged her productiveness.

A subsequent volume of ‘Fall of the Republic’ will further detail the staged-collapse of America’s economy, and Detroit is the most-detailed ground analysis yet undertaken by the Infowars team in preparation and research for the film. As this video of Detroit shows, its decline began in the Late 1950s and early 1960s with the collapse of the Packard Plant. We witnessed boarded-up abandoned houses, cities being reclaimed by nature and ethnic demography hardening into areas divided into sub-cultures and readied for control through community demagogues

More and Video here: http://www.prisonpla...ion-agenda.html

[SRCivic98]

Ufo Believer, on 31 October 2009 - 10:59 AM, said:

From - Infowars

“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” – Maurice Strong, 1992

It’s a history where the bankers have embedded themselves into the economy, building up infrastructure for a time, then bringing down the system within the United States in concert with the international economic warfare and the rise of global government.

It’s the collapse of Detroit, and like the Great Depression of the 20th Century, the looming Greater Depression of the 21st Century, and the collapse of Building 7 and the Twin Towers, it was a staged collapse. This stage of the game is De-industrialization.

Inside this agenda is a plan for global government to emerge from the ashes of the once great United States and for the era of national sovereignty itself to subside. To achieve their goal, an economic squeeze is placed upon the nation and environmental pretexts are being used to strangle independence and viability– in America it has been the NAFTA, GATT, WTO and United Nations treaties that have wrecked her integrity and pillaged her productiveness.

A subsequent volume of ‘Fall of the Republic’ will further detail the staged-collapse of America’s economy, and Detroit is the most-detailed ground analysis yet undertaken by the Infowars team in preparation and research for the film. As this video of Detroit shows, its decline began in the Late 1950s and early 1960s with the collapse of the Packard Plant. We witnessed boarded-up abandoned houses, cities being reclaimed by nature and ethnic demography hardening into areas divided into sub-cultures and readied for control through community demagogues

More and Video here: http://www.prisonpla...ion-agenda.html

which things will turn into something like Resident Evil at the end of the first film, cities burning, car collisions everywhere, people surviving the best they can which then goes into something Apocolypic like The Road Warrior.

[marabod]

If Detroit ever collapses, it would be not because of the bankers, but because "Americans want big cars" despite the petrol prices are consistently going up. The misconception of the US car industry ensured its inability to compete with small cars manufacturers from Asia, as it makes difference now, to drive something consuming 15L per 100 km or something, consuming 5L. Due to non-conspiracy reasons, the small cars are 2-4 times cheaper to drive, of which fact the rest of the world is aware for the last 20 years. Americans just did not know about this - because they were not interested in what was happening outside of USA. And Detroit occurred to be not ready for a change, so various hondas, Toyotas, Huindays, Fiats had it ruined. Sorta Wake up, we've been robbed!

[acidhead]

marabod, on 31 October 2009 - 07:31 PM, said:

If Detroit ever collapses, it would be not because of the bankers, but because "Americans want big cars" despite the petrol prices are consistently going up. The misconception of the US car industry ensured its inability to compete with small cars manufacturers from Asia, as it makes difference now, to drive something consuming 15L per 100 km or something, consuming 5L. Due to non-conspiracy reasons, the small cars are 2-4 times cheaper to drive, of which fact the rest of the world is aware for the last 20 years. Americans just did not know about this - because they were not interested in what was happening outside of USA. And Detroit occurred to be not ready for a change, so various hondas, Toyotas, Huindays, Fiats had it ruined. Sorta Wake up, we've been robbed!

Marabod,the average american never had a chance to consider an alternative to a gas guzzeler...

We buy what is presented to us.. regardless of our wants and concerns... we usually choose from the choices.

The bankers along with big oil have pulled the rug out from underneath our feet...

The rest is self-preversation for everybody.

Detroit is a prime example of big oil sh!tting on the small guy.

[marabod]

acidhead, on 01 November 2009 - 04:47 PM, said:

Marabod,the average american never had a chance to consider an alternative to a gas guzzeler...

We buy what is presented to us.. regardless of our wants and concerns... we usually choose from the choices.

The bankers along with big oil have pulled the rug out from underneath our feet...

The rest is self-preversation for everybody.

Detroit is a prime example of big oil sh!tting on the small guy.

I would not be isolating oil sector in this case. During Cold War and ideological stand-off, USA had to develop certain features, allowing to resist the scary idea of Communism (which was looking quite real, but then occurred to be just a fantasy!). These features included Social Security system, high living standars (which the Americans, driving huge cars were the popular image of), Christian Fundamentalism (as the opposite ideology to Atheistic Communism), special ideological institution (full of experts on ideological warfare) etc etc. All these expenditures and novelties had a backlash - the ideological warriors never allowed the peace to finalise (scared of unemployment), population quickly got used to be religious and think a medieval way (which caused problems in the development of national science and technology), while the oil industry (basically the shares of oil companies) became a common reward for loyalty in politics. This altogether plus transfer of the producing industries to developing world and resulting from this huge foreign debt, overspending on the wars (carried to support ailing dollar) and poor level of political planning de-facto brought the country to the bankruptcy, which the local politicians simply feel terrified to admit. US lost control over the world hydrocarbons producers, and as a result nice huge prestige cars occurred to be undemanded for, hence the death of car industry. I think it won't recover anymore, as the Asian opposition would take the market, while it is restructuring - but who knows, I can be wrong. So it was more complex than just greed.

[el midgetron]

marabod, on 31 October 2009 - 10:31 PM, said:

If Detroit ever collapses, it would be not because of the bankers, but because "Americans want big cars" despite the petrol prices are consistently going up.

If "Americans want big cars" then there should be a booming market in Michigan's auto industry.

Its funny that you can claim "americans want big cars" and then in the very next sentance turn around and claim the its due to the "misconception of the US car industry" for building all those big cars. Thats some fancy bubble-gum logic.

[flyingswan]

el midgetron, on 01 November 2009 - 06:17 AM, said:

If "Americans want big cars" then there should be a booming market in Michigan's auto industry.

Its funny that you can claim "americans want big cars" and then in the very next sentance turn around and claim the its due to the "misconception of the US car industry" for building all those big cars. Thats some fancy bubble-gum logic.

I think marabod means that "Americans want big cars" is the Detroit policy, and that policy is the reason for Detroit's decline. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[sinewave]

marabod, on 31 October 2009 - 08:31 PM, said:

If Detroit ever collapses, it would be not because of the bankers, but because "Americans want big cars" despite the petrol prices are consistently going up. The misconception of the US car industry ensured its inability to compete with small cars manufacturers from Asia, as it makes difference now, to drive something consuming 15L per 100 km or something, consuming 5L. Due to non-conspiracy reasons, the small cars are 2-4 times cheaper to drive, of which fact the rest of the world is aware for the last 20 years. Americans just did not know about this - because they were not interested in what was happening outside of USA. And Detroit occurred to be not ready for a change, so various hondas, Toyotas, Huindays, Fiats had it ruined. Sorta Wake up, we've been robbed!

Detroit's problems are of Detroit's own doing. The Japanese have been quietly working on making cars better and more efficient since the first Hondas came here in the late 60's. The big three on the other hand have routinely failed to improve their products and methods opting instead to make disposable cars and pay their top executives huge bonuses just for showing up. It is not that they are incapable of making great cars. On the contrary. There are lots of smart and capable people working for the big three who could make a difference if they were allowed to do that. Management centric decisions do not make for a sustainable business model where customer centric ones do. The oldest Japanese hybrids have been on the road over 10 years. Detroit has just recently figured out it might be a good idea. They have been late to the party too often and now they are missing out.

This post has been edited by sinewave: 02 November 2009 - 09:33 PM

[batvette]

marabod, on 31 October 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:

I would not be isolating oil sector in this case. During Cold War and ideological stand-off, USA had to develop certain features, allowing to resist the scary idea of Communism (which was looking quite real, but then occurred to be just a fantasy!). These features included Social Security system, high living standars (which the Americans, driving huge cars were the popular image of), Christian Fundamentalism (as the opposite ideology to Atheistic Communism), special ideological institution (full of experts on ideological warfare) etc etc. All these expenditures and novelties had a backlash - the ideological warriors never allowed the peace to finalise (scared of unemployment), population quickly got used to be religious and think a medieval way (which caused problems in the development of national science and technology), while the oil industry (basically the shares of oil companies) became a common reward for loyalty in politics. This altogether plus transfer of the producing industries to developing world and resulting from this huge foreign debt, overspending on the wars (carried to support ailing dollar) and poor level of political planning de-facto brought the country to the bankruptcy, which the local politicians simply feel terrified to admit. US lost control over the world hydrocarbons producers, and as a result nice huge prestige cars occurred to be undemanded for, hence the death of car industry. I think it won't recover anymore, as the Asian opposition would take the market, while it is restructuring - but who knows, I can be wrong. So it was more complex than just greed.

Despite the brain farts pointed out by others in your last post, this was a marvelously astute analysis of the situation.
I think it should be noted that what drives the US auto industry (no pun intended) in a way unique to this country is the freeway system planned during the Eisenhower administration and the wide open expanses of our country's topography. Small cars are the norm in european cities due to the narrow streets in her old cities, which also didn't change after WW2 because the continent's inhabitants were broke. (thus the brief popularity of even microcars like the messerschmidt 500) Japan has a similar situation, and the few owners of Hummers in Tokyo actually have restricted registrations on the streets they can operate them on.
Detroit (the CITY) is collapsing because the city relied on one industry and was essentially a magnet for population growth only while the industry thrived. It can't attract a diversity of other industry because it's basically a frozen smelly armpit.
Sinewave's assessment of the big three's corporate troubles needs no additional commment, he hits it right on the head except I would argue "disposable cars" was also a product of the Japanese at the same time- they did get the market changes ahead of the Americans and had better initial quality off the line. While it hardly benefits industry you will see more 15 year old American cars on the road than Asian, but that is often simply because the styling of the American car was original while the Japanese was considered derivitive. (compare firebird/camaro VS supra, for instance) Also GM cars especially always had more commonality in spare parts, an alternator might be the same in a dozen models over ten years. Japanese cars usually design the part to fit the car while Detroit would design a car with existing parts across platforms. Standardization of parts usually makes or breaks a manufacturer, that's how Lee I. saved Chrysler. (the abomination called "K")
Back around 1988? I bought an '81 Mazda RX-7 for my wife and I swear it was the flimsiest tin can POS imaginable, embodied disposable by any definition. It also never broke in the four years she owned it, not even a damn light bulb! Amazing. Every part just as good as it needed, no better or worse. In the same period my pride and joy '86 Corvette never missed its monthly breakdown, every part looking marvelously engineered as I held it broken in one hand, the repair invoice in the other. (while in warranty GM was quite generous with covering repairs tho, including a $2500 instrument cluster "gratis") The RX-7 was crushed years ago,(as was the wedding ring) the Corvette is in my driveway today. (doesn't run but it would if my back wasn't too shot to wrench on it)
Another issue in the demise of the big three I didn't see mentioned was their entitlements/benefits legacies for retirees, which is symptomatic of American labor in general. Everyone wanted the American dream, the costs associated with it killed our ability to compete. I blame unions and then I don't. They can be good and prevent gross abuses by management, but bog down business and create a "us VS them" situation between the company and workers. I speak from some experience there having worked in a factory in the '80s as a member of IAM. (I did wiring and electrical assembly on machines that made floppy discs, at a company called ESD in San Jose- many of the machines were shipped to Japan!) You HAD to stop working when the bell rang, even if it meant more work and productivity lost to start again VS spend one more minute to finish. They had a guard at the bathroom to pat people down for books or newspapers. At 4:29 a hundred and eighty people lined up at one time clock and if we didn't get the whole line clocked out in the time between 4:30-32, (time clocks measure in 3 minute increments for pay) people got a lot of flak.

stupid. and we went on strike for a week just so two old machinists, the top hourly earners, wouldn't be phased out.

[batvette]

Ufo Believer, on 31 October 2009 - 07:59 AM, said:

From - Infowars

“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” – Maurice Strong, 1992

It’s a history where the bankers have embedded themselves into the economy, building up infrastructure for a time, then bringing down the system within the United States in concert with the international economic warfare and the rise of global government.

It’s the collapse of Detroit, and like the Great Depression of the 20th Century, the looming Greater Depression of the 21st Century, and the collapse of Building 7 and the Twin Towers, it was a staged collapse. This stage of the game is De-industrialization.

Inside this agenda is a plan for global government to emerge from the ashes of the once great United States and for the era of national sovereignty itself to subside. To achieve their goal, an economic squeeze is placed upon the nation and environmental pretexts are being used to strangle independence and viability– in America it has been the NAFTA, GATT, WTO and United Nations treaties that have wrecked her integrity and pillaged her productiveness.

A subsequent volume of ‘Fall of the Republic’ will further detail the staged-collapse of America’s economy, and Detroit is the most-detailed ground analysis yet undertaken by the Infowars team in preparation and research for the film. As this video of Detroit shows, its decline began in the Late 1950s and early 1960s with the collapse of the Packard Plant. We witnessed boarded-up abandoned houses, cities being reclaimed by nature and ethnic demography hardening into areas divided into sub-cultures and readied for control through community demagogues

More and Video here: http://www.prisonpla...ion-agenda.html

Directly replying to the conspiratorial nature of the topic:

A lot of holes in that. "Hope for the planet" was the transfer of technology and manufacturing knowledge that caused China's industrialization? Please! They pollute like Stephen Seagal ****s bad movies! (or plays guitar and sings- see youtube, he's awful) Their GG emissions now dwarf ours. The planet is doomed and since those gifts to China were the real cause of the demise of American industry, and accelerate that doom, it doesn't make sense.
The collapse of America's fortunes are wrapped around the fact it always was a facade in the first place. See "in 1973 we reneg on a promise to the G6 and nixon sends kissinger to Saudi Arabia and strikes a deal allowing us to print money and exchange it for real goods and services as fast as developing and industrialized nations can use Arab oil!" (AKA petrodollars) Preserving this deal (and holding up our end of the deal, to protect the royal family) was a major factor in why we invaded Iraq, Saddam had by intent or accident engineered a scheme to unravel it, and I believe that because Saddam had no stockpiles of WMD was precisely why we HAD to invade. (he switched his oil sales to the euro in 2000, profited handsomely even under oil for food restrictions as the euro advanced on the dollar from 2000-2002, and more importantly established a petroleum/revenues/real goods pipeline to Paris. Iran and Venezuela were itching to follow as were several others which would snowball into a dollar asset selloff the world has long been ready for and we're now beyond avoiding. When Blix declared him WMD free by summer 2003 the combined drilling assets of China Russia and France walk in and tap what has now been surveyed to be the largest reserves in the world, most in high pressure wells that fly out of the ground at 50 cents lift cost and most of what China can't consume goes on the market in Euros. The dollar would be decimated) to hell with the cost of the war- what dollars you want that calculated in? Real ones or the ones worth 10 cents when we let that happen?

However as a counter to that I do hold a belief the powers that be, the "elite" as it were, have no desire to pursue an economic recovery for the masses, by reason of one philosophy:

It is difficult to enslave and oppress 300 million happy, prosperous people- who all have jobs, and hope, and optimism.

Make them desperate, starving, unemployed, rob them of the one thing humans MUST have to get them through their worst days, their HOPE, and they will beg for it.

Those elite will profit whether we starve or feast.

This post has been edited by batvette: 06 November 2009 - 09:24 AM

[Br Cornelius]

batvette, on 06 November 2009 - 09:21 AM, said:

Directly replying to the conspiratorial nature of the topic:

A lot of holes in that. "Hope for the planet" was the transfer of technology and manufacturing knowledge that caused China's industrialization? Please! They pollute like Stephen Seagal ****s bad movies! (or plays guitar and sings- see youtube, he's awful) Their GG emissions now dwarf ours. The planet is doomed and since those gifts to China were the real cause of the demise of American industry, and accelerate that doom, it doesn't make sense.
The collapse of America's fortunes are wrapped around the fact it always was a facade in the first place. See "in 1973 we reneg on a promise to the G6 and nixon sends kissinger to Saudi Arabia and strikes a deal allowing us to print money and exchange it for real goods and services as fast as developing and industrialized nations can use Arab oil!" (AKA petrodollars) Preserving this deal (and holding up our end of the deal, to protect the royal family) was a major factor in why we invaded Iraq, Saddam had by intent or accident engineered a scheme to unravel it, and I believe that because Saddam had no stockpiles of WMD was precisely why we HAD to invade. (he switched his oil sales to the euro in 2000, profited handsomely even under oil for food restrictions as the euro advanced on the dollar from 2000-2002, and more importantly established a petroleum/revenues/real goods pipeline to Paris. Iran and Venezuela were itching to follow as were several others which would snowball into a dollar asset selloff the world has long been ready for and we're now beyond avoiding. When Blix declared him WMD free by summer 2003 the combined drilling assets of China Russia and France walk in and tap what has now been surveyed to be the largest reserves in the world, most in high pressure wells that fly out of the ground at 50 cents lift cost and most of what China can't consume goes on the market in Euros. The dollar would be decimated) to hell with the cost of the war- what dollars you want that calculated in? Real ones or the ones worth 10 cents when we let that happen?

However as a counter to that I do hold a belief the powers that be, the "elite" as it were, have no desire to pursue an economic recovery for the masses, by reason of one philosophy:

It is difficult to enslave and oppress 300 million happy, prosperous people- who all have jobs, and hope, and optimism.

Make them desperate, starving, unemployed, rob them of the one thing humans MUST have to get them through their worst days, their HOPE, and they will beg for it.

Those elite will profit whether we starve or feast.

Good analysis.
The Americans are in Iraq fighting for their very survival. Thats the honest truth behind the bull.
And yet the bankers always win.

Br Cornelius

[sinewave]

Br Cornelius, on 06 November 2009 - 10:05 AM, said:

Good analysis.
The Americans are in Iraq fighting for their very survival. Thats the honest truth behind the bull.
And yet the bankers always win.

Br Cornelius

The bottom third of high school graduating classes end up doing the bidding of the top 10 percent including fighting wars that never should have happened.

[batvette]

sinewave, on 09 November 2009 - 09:14 AM, said:

fighting wars that never should have happened.

That's speculatory at best, and given its well stated purpose of being a preemptive action toward Saddam's expected continuation of a history of aggression toward his neighbors, makes as much sense as regretting your childhood polio shot because you never got polio.
But hey, you're in good company, plenty of people feel that way. They feel that not finding WMD is significant, and after we wage a war where the Iraqi forces never put up an organized defense at all, Saddam buried his air force months prior, and the citizens looted every government building down to the plumbing after we bombed the country into ruins, they can kick those ruins and say they don't see how Saddam was a threat.

My opinion is that is foolish.

It was recently pointed out to me by an angry war critic that in polls the number of Americans who decided the war was a mistake has risen dramatically, from something like 20% in summer 2003, to around 65% in 2009. He said "what the hell's wrong with you, you're on the fringe here".

I simply said that since the known facts hadn't significantly changed since 2003, that proves that one shouldn't put much validity in public opinion polls. He didn't get it.

Quote

The bottom third of high school graduating classes end up doing the bidding of the top 10 percent

figuring that in a theoretical utopia of no wars, you'd be cleaning their toilets and doing their laundry instead, one would imagine that one of the few opportunities to have your name indelibly marked on the annals of history would be to man up and perform bravely in combat.

[aquatus1]

sinewave, on 09 November 2009 - 05:14 PM, said:

The bottom third of high school graduating classes end up doing the bidding of the top 10 percent including fighting wars that never should have happened.

I'm sorry, but is this intended to be some sort of insight?

What else do you expect? That the best students would work for the worst students? That they would all be considered equals in the work force?

This post has been edited by aquatus1: 10 November 2009 - 05:14 PM

[Br Cornelius]

batvette, on 10 November 2009 - 11:54 AM, said:

That's speculatory at best, and given its well stated purpose of being a preemptive action toward Saddam's expected continuation of a history of aggression toward his neighbors, makes as much sense as regretting your childhood polio shot because you never got polio.
But hey, you're in good company, plenty of people feel that way. They feel that not finding WMD is significant, and after we wage a war where the Iraqi forces never put up an organized defense at all, Saddam buried his air force months prior, and the citizens looted every government building down to the plumbing after we bombed the country into ruins, they can kick those ruins and say they don't see how Saddam was a threat.

My opinion is that is foolish.

It was recently pointed out to me by an angry war critic that in polls the number of Americans who decided the war was a mistake has risen dramatically, from something like 20% in summer 2003, to around 65% in 2009. He said "what the hell's wrong with you, you're on the fringe here".

I simply said that since the known facts hadn't significantly changed since 2003, that proves that one shouldn't put much validity in public opinion polls. He didn't get it.



figuring that in a theoretical utopia of no wars, you'd be cleaning their toilets and doing their laundry instead, one would imagine that one of the few opportunities to have your name indelibly marked on the annals of history would be to man up and perform bravely in combat.

Iraq was invaded because Saddam was planning on switching to using the Euro instead of the Dollar to price his oil. This represented a breach in the dyke of American oil hegomony. This was the main reason that he was attacked and if he had of been a little bit more cooperative with Americas plans he would likely still be in place with American support. As perverse as it sounds Saddam was looking for a better deal for himself and his country. This is in no way a defense of this evil dictator - just a bit more realistic representation of the reality that precipitated the invasion.
It was a War for control of oil resources.

Br Cornelius