[lookingfortruth]

ohio state buckeyes, on 01 November 2009 - 01:16 AM, said:

Yeah its called faith. God has done so much just letting feel like his there. People suffering has to do with other people for the most part. If people loved like jesus called us to much of the suffering wouldnt exist.

Say that to the starving. loving an imaginary being in the sky isn't going to bring them food is it? Sure, i could right a book telling people to act a certain way, anyone could! And if that was god's goal why didn't he just end all suffering then instead of telling us to do it? Lazy lazy lazy

[lookingfortruth]

IamsSon, on 01 November 2009 - 03:32 AM, said:

He's provided all of us with a way to avoid the eternal consequences of our actions, and He has made Himself available for a personal relationship. He's given us life and the ability to make choices. He's given me eternal life.

I asked for things that could be proven in the modern day. none of this can be, therefore doesn't apply to the argument.

284dan, on 01 November 2009 - 01:47 AM, said:

Two way street. What have you done for God lately?

I had lived my life for god before and see no difference not doing it now.

This post has been edited by lookingfortruth: 01 November 2009 - 04:21 AM

[lookingfortruth]

Mr Walker, on 01 November 2009 - 04:34 AM, said:

It is not gods role to change the earth and improve the lot of people in it.

So he puts me on the world to fix all of his mistakes? Lazy lazy lazy

tinieblas, on 01 November 2009 - 02:51 AM, said:

You won't get a straight answer on this one mate......God created us, if we doubt him we'll go to hell and be make to watch puppies be tortured...if there's any bad in the world it's either the Devil's fault or ours because we didn't listen to Jesus properly (let's forget that God's own chosen People, the Catholic church are responsible for more evil in recent years....let's not forget the priests of the US and Ireland eh? If priests are capable of the worst of evils.........so if they can't listen to what Jesus said properly, what hope is there for us?), or that we're being tested by what is, to be frank quite a seemingly very petty and bitter deity who enjoys making His creations suffer (or is it tough for Him to be so petty, thus we must feel compassion for Him?).....no Christian will admit to these accusations though because, like all humans, their cupidity won't let them......God allegedly created us and is in charge of all stuff that happens.....that he will keep an eye on us and we're the most important things going as far as He is concerned stands to reason......can't have a Creator who simply Creates on this world and then moves on to the next one.....and the next one....and the next one after that...........the universe is infinate after all and, according to Christians and other religious folk, He Created the whole lot, only to spend all His time watching over one world inside of all Infinty (he was bored, you know how Sundays are!) ALL the time because we're special after all........so no, they won't discuss this seriously at all......their own regular guilt in committing the Deadly Sin of Pride daily will not allow them to.........

thank you for this post

This post has been edited by lookingfortruth: 01 November 2009 - 04:27 AM

[Mr Walker]

lookingfortruth, on 01 November 2009 - 02:49 PM, said:

Say that to the starving. loving an imaginary being in the sky isn't going to bring them food is it? Sure, i could right a book telling people to act a certain way, anyone could! And if that was god's goal why didn't he just end all suffering then instead of telling us to do it? Lazy lazy lazy

So you would prefer living a self aware life where, either you could think a harmful thought but god stopped you from acting on it, or you were incapable of even formulating a harmful thought? God cannot stop us from commiting evil, without removing our free will, or our freedom to act on that will.
Its not laziness, its one of the laws of universal consequence which applies to any sapient being, even god.

Not me mate. I prefer living in a world where i can think and act freely , where my choices are mine, where i am acountable and where i can make a difference . A world where i can learn, mature, grow and develop.

If that means i have the freedom to make mistakes, see the consequences and learn from them, then do be it.
To me, that is infinitely preferrable to the alternative, which is not a fully sapient and self aware life at all.
I chose my actions, using every aspect of my intelligence, and with the human ability to divide time into past future and present, and further analyse cause and effect and considercost benefit analysis. I like being able to understand how i can exchange immediate outcomes, for potential outcomes, by altering my behavour.
In other words i like the way god made me and you. But i acccept responsibility for my thoughts and deeds. The real problem is, how few humans truly do.

The many books of god, in general, tell us how to regard self and fellow man, and how to act towards self and others. They educate us in assuming responsibility and in having the ethical knowledge to enable us to act wisely and with positive consequence.

This has so many benefits over simply compelling us Why , some of us may even grow and develop into wise spiritually balanced beings who chose a constructive pathway betwen the physical and the spiritual and become more fully what humans all have the potential to become.

Compulsion completely restricts and limits human potential. Freewill enables almost limitless potentiality. God guides, and helps us try to survive, through that dangerous period of spiritual/physical adolescence, where we are capable of self destruction and of destroying all life in our local universe.

If he is a hard but loving parent, then that may give us the best chance of living to species maturity.

This post has been edited by Mr Walker: 01 November 2009 - 04:40 AM

[Furnacewhelp]

lookingfortruth, on 31 October 2009 - 10:20 PM, said:

I had lived my life for god before and see no difference not doing it now.

So what exactly are you doing differently? Why did you make the choice to change?

Quote

So he puts me on the world to fix all of his mistakes? Lazy lazy lazy

They aren't his mistakes. This world is shaped by our choices. When we make a choice that results in a negative outcome it's up to us to correct it. You say God is lazy but you are the one who wants him to come down and fix all of your mistakes for you. Lazy lazy lazy.

[GIDEON MAGE]

IamsSon, on 31 October 2009 - 10:32 PM, said:

He's provided all of us with a way to avoid the eternal consequences of our actions, and He has made Himself available for a personal relationship. He's given us life and the ability to make choices. He's given me eternal life.

or you could easily say he has set up eternal damnation......

[ShaunZero]

IamsSon, on 31 October 2009 - 08:32 PM, said:

He's provided all of us with a way to avoid the eternal consequences of our actions, and He has made Himself available for a personal relationship. He's given us life and the ability to make choices. He's given me eternal life.

Available in what way? I've tried my *** off to get any type of feed back from him when I did believe in him, but nothing. I guess I was doing something wrong, in which case he's apparantly elusive and uncaring if one wants to seek him but doesn't understand how, and then willing to condemn that person for it.

This post has been edited by ShaunZero: 01 November 2009 - 07:38 AM

[The Silver Thong]

It appears god loves by region not belief. Many in the west still believe in this stuff and thats kinda funny as god is required to help those that can help themselves. The ones that can't help themselves god ignores. Why do millions that have nothing, no food, no medicine, no water, no future still believe in god? Why do we pray to win the lotto and others pray for a bowl of rice. Does the belief in god bring more harm than good? Look into it and it might shock you. Whats that saying about adults that have imaginary friends?

[ChloeB]

Rhungobains, on 31 October 2009 - 05:36 PM, said:

Well, he blessed me with two redundant nipples.

You made me choke on my water, lolol. And blessed you are indeed.

[Jaygatz]

You know I could go on and on about all the posts made here, but Ill just get to the point. People say well god gave me the strength to do something or god helped me get a job, god got me off the streets, god got me off drugs. This is the same god that lets children in 3rd world countries die, the same god that allows children to be raped and murdered, the same god that lets people kill each other....Well I have a huge surprise for you. ITS NOT GOD. People them selfs do these things...basic example, God helped me quit smoking, Did he? Or did pray to god for help to stop smoking? In that case why not pray to me I bet you, you would have the same result....well maybe not because you asked god...but in reality, you decided you wanted to quit smoking. So you stopped. God didn't make you or help you....it was a personal choice...but you tell yourself that god helped. God doesn't let children starve, god doesn't let children to be raped and murdered, and god doesn't kill PEOPLE DO THESE THINGS!!!! Everyone is so quick to put the blame on something or someone. Do you realize that religion has been responsible for more deaths than all the worlds wars combined?? I think that all these Christians need to re-read there bibles from the start to finish...because its all there in black and white!!!! And I mean really read it!
I did see someone post that they used to live for god but doesn't anymore and realized no difference....I to was a born again Christian when I was 9 I did the whole church thing and accepted jesus into my heart....and when I was 16 and saw the world for what it was I no longer lived my life for god I live my life for myself. Now don't get me wrong I don't think theres anything wrong with believing in god, it keeps us honest, it gives us something to live for and I think thats a great thing. I just have to say that I personally believe its BS....Just my opinion

[IamsSon]

GIDEON MAGE, on 01 November 2009 - 12:04 AM, said:

or you could easily say he has set up eternal damnation......

Or you could take responsibility and admit you make the decisions that have set you on that path.

ShaunZero, on 01 November 2009 - 01:38 AM, said:

Available in what way? I've tried my *** off to get any type of feed back from him when I did believe in him, but nothing. I guess I was doing something wrong, in which case he's apparantly elusive and uncaring if one wants to seek him but doesn't understand how, and then willing to condemn that person for it.

I'm truly sorry you did not get the response you wanted or felt you needed. I know Christians who have had experiences very similar to Mr. Walker's that left them with no way to doubt the presence of God and I know Christians who know God and yet have never even had the slightest "sense" of His presence, they just know He is there by examining their lives and His creation.

This post has been edited by IamsSon: 01 November 2009 - 01:43 PM

[Beckys_Mom]

IamsSon, on 01 November 2009 - 01:42 PM, said:

I know Christians who know God and yet have never even had the slightest "sense" of His presence, they just know He is there by examining their lives and His creation.

Don't make a lick of sense here..............they have NEVER had the slightest sense of his presence........and yet know he is there? what?

How can anyone know god is there and not even sense his presence? that just doesnt sound right lol

No man knows god..................they just know OF god ...never ever will I ever believe that any man KNOWS god..even on a personal level...I just believe that they wish they did...and have convinced themselves they do....

[Bluefinger]

lookingfortruth, on 31 October 2009 - 06:11 PM, said:

I have a very short, and to the point topic. Sense many of you believe in god and insist he is with you always, I'm just curious, what has god EVER done for you? What has god EVER done on this earth, in the modern day, that has benifited you HERE? if he loved you so much, why does he insist on doing nothing for you or anyone else, even when there are millions upon millions of people suffering today? Anything that benefits humanity, if it can be proven, counts

You mean, "Why doesn't God do something BIG and MIRACULOUS for me?" LFT, the everyday experience of life, from a biological level to the metaphysical level, is an act of God's intentional grace. The fact that we exist instead of not exist is a gift from God. Our lives, no matter how painful and heartbreaking, is better off than no life at all. Life is a gift, and to underplay life because of our sufferings is either an act of ignorance or an act of pride. If my family died, I was left jobless, and had nothing left in this life, I would still have my life. What has God done for me? He has been good to me. And if he had given me trouble, He still gave me Christ (the greatest gift ever!).

God doesn't answer to us because our suffering demands it. God answers us when and if He wants to. It wouldn't be love if He didn't reserve the right to withhold it. To go on thinking we deserve God's love is to speak of an oxymoron. Love isn't giving someone what they deserve. Love is giving someone what they don't deserve because you care about them. God's greatest demonstration of His self-giving and intentional love is the life of Jesus Christ.

God does not answer to us. He gave us the gift of life, not the other way around. We answer to Him.

[marabod]

Bluefinger, on 02 November 2009 - 05:09 AM, said:

You mean, "Why doesn't God do something BIG and MIRACULOUS for me?" LFT, the everyday experience of life, from a biological level to the metaphysical level, is an act of God's intentional grace. The fact that we exist instead of not exist is a gift from God. Our lives, no matter how painful and heartbreaking, is better off than no life at all. Life is a gift, and to underplay life because of our sufferings is either an act of ignorance or an act of pride. If my family died, I was left jobless, and had nothing left in this life, I would still have my life. What has God done for me? He has been good to me. And if he had given me trouble, He still gave me Christ (the greatest gift ever!).

God doesn't answer to us because our suffering demands it. God answers us when and if He wants to. It wouldn't be love if He didn't reserve the right to withhold it. To go on thinking we deserve God's love is to speak of an oxymoron. Love isn't giving someone what they deserve. Love is giving someone what they don't deserve because you care about them. God's greatest demonstration of His self-giving and intentional love is the life of Jesus Christ.

God does not answer to us. He gave us the gift of life, not the other way around. We answer to Him.

Bluef, again you are back to square one! This was an OP, addressed to a single person - how many of you are here today? Your multiplicity of personalities is impressing, as you sure cannot just speak of yourself without using all these "us", "our", "we" and other plural references to yourself. Its a forum, you have one account only!

[Mistydawn]

lookingfortruth, on 31 October 2009 - 05:11 PM, said:

I have a very short, and to the point topic. Sense many of you believe in god and insist he is with you always, I'm just curious, what has god EVER done for you? What has god EVER done on this earth, in the modern day, that has benifited you HERE? if he loved you so much, why does he insist on doing nothing for you or anyone else, even when there are millions upon millions of people suffering today? Anything that benefits humanity, if it can be proven, counts

Okay 'Lookingfortruth' I haven't read through all of the posts, but enough to know that people will try to validate their belief in the God of Creation enough to say He has done PILES of things for them.

My response to your question is this:

My God, the god of the belief I have that states He/male and infinitismally correct in all His endevours, hasn't done anything for me ever.
People, friends, acquaintances, family member, complete strangers, they have 'done for me' when I needed help, it was "People/Human-beings' who have helped me.
Spiritually enclined people, will say, "Aaaaagh, but that was God working through them...." S* I * T *!!!! THATwas PEOPLE!! Human's, no god/deity workings AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!