[tinieblas]

No dear friends, no atheist blames God for the world's problems, rather they blame those who claim to follow Him and use His teachings to justify what they do. All religions fight wars over whose religion and thus interpretation of God is best.

God is not to blame; God does not care what each individual person on Earth does exactly, nor does He watch over us like some stern father, no he is so far beyond our comprehension that we cannot deign to try and constrain Him in a human seeming form and attribute Him with human frailties and personality....this is the overweaning arrogance of many people of Faith; that God does what they ask, cares about every little aspect of their lives and gets angry at people who upset them. All Christians got to Church and demand that God do things for them; that the Creator of the Universe has nothing better to do but solve all the petty little proiblems of all of his faithful AND will forgive you as long as you say you're sorry! People do blame God for everything but God doesn't mind; or should I say, The Source does not mind.....

I saw on another thread here someone mention the Universe being a giant brain; perhaps it is.....I remember the ancient Greek mythology and the diety of Gaia, the actual spirit or soul of the Earth. If the Earth can have a soul or spirit and that is Gaia, then the soul of the universe could well be God. You see I am an Agnostic; I have studied all the major religions of the world and philosophies too and have found no one upon which I can believe but I am not convinced that there is nothing , no intelligence greater than our own....just that no religion quite got it right. Christianity almost did but then the Romans corrupted the original Tao Buddhist message of Christ and piled on the dogma.....you see Christians, I believe Jesus had a serious point, it's just that so many people got it completely and utterly wrong!


Oh and The Devil was invented in the 9th Century CE after Missionaries encountered the British and Irish Celts who revered the Horned One (Herne the Hunter or Cernunnos ), a tall man with the lower legs and cloven hooves of a goat and the antlers of a stag who actually inspired the Pan of Greeks and Romans. Strange that the Christian Devil resembles Herne and Cernunnos so exactly isn't it?

Horned God ....ok this is Baphomet, a more modern representation but it also points out how the meaning of the Elder Sign, Sign of Ell or Pentagram has been corrupted for some people's own purposes....corruption of a message and lies to achieve their ends.....not good and Christian....Jesus, again, would not have approved...

This post has been edited by tinieblas: 05 November 2009 - 06:42 AM

[ChloeB]

Furnacewhelp, on 04 November 2009 - 07:50 PM, said:

But I have found something. When people tell me that I haven't found anything that is insulting. Then I reason that if I have found something that other people can find it as well. People say that they haven't found anything and so they stop looking. I simply say to keep looking.



And then you run the risk of missing out on the diamond. The word of others isn't enough to get you to do anything. Here you have someone saying that they have seen the diamond. Would you believe it? How about 2 people saying that they have seen it, would you believe then? Here you have billions of people saying they have seen the diamond and you still refuse to believe that there could be something there. You aren't even convinced enough to look. You may have dug a hole and found nothing. You then conclude that because the diamond wasn't in this one hole that it isn't anywhere.

This is all great and good, glad you found what you have. My point is that you seem to tend to make assumptions about what people have done to get to this point to become non-believers. You don't know that, you couldn't. I agree, no one should tell you that you haven't found something - that's your personal business. My personal belief is if if there is a God, all the religions have molded and shaped it to suit outside agendas, packaged it and sold it until it's unrecognizable.

Anyway, I'm not good at games. I've had encounters with you before on another thread about that age of accountability thing. I don't know what you're up to with this generic God because all religions have their brand. I just find it odd that you're trying to be so evasive that you're LDS here.

This post has been edited by ChloeB: 05 November 2009 - 07:22 AM

[marabod]

Furnacewhelp, on 05 November 2009 - 06:08 PM, said:

So you are accusing me of pushing my religion and not just belief in God. But I haven't actually said which religion I belong to. Now if I were pushing my religion don't you think I would have taken the time to state which religion I am. I mean if I were trying to bring people to my religion, I wouldn't do a very good job if people didn't know which religion I wanted them to belong to. That would seem to point to my not pushing my religion but simply the belief in God. But you want to know which god I'm pushing. Is it the christian god, the jewish god or the muslim god? But you said that there was only one God and it's the religions which are many. So if I am pushing simply the belief in God it shouldn't matter which religion I belong to because they all worship the same God in different ways.

Care to provide an expanded quote, where I accused you in pushing your religion? This is YOUR words placed in my mouth. I said I do not CARE which exactly God your particular religion worships, and I said this only because I meant this. What do you want of me? To start believing in your God? Forget it! Ever saw a rude finger? How can I help you except that?

Quote

If you noticed I am not breaking into the Atheist club house and handing out bibles. This is a Public Forum. You feel that you can come in here and dump on other peoples beliefs but then expect other people to show respect to your beliefs. You can freely state your beliefs in public but if anyone believes something you don't you want them to meet and discuss their beliefs in private.

I do not have any "beliefs", I am a scientist. I do not CARE about any religious club-house or Atheist club-house, because I do not need any club-house at all. This forum was advertised as suitable for all people, and this is why I am here. If you think you can do what you think is right, then give it a test - go to the nearest Mosque and start preaching there what you preach here. If you come out unscratched - means you are ready to expose yourself to the "public" in general. Your religion (whatever be it) is respected only until it becomes offensive.

This post has been edited by marabod: 05 November 2009 - 07:40 AM

[Furnacewhelp]

ChloeB, on 04 November 2009 - 11:51 PM, said:

This is all great and good, glad you found what you have. My point is that you seem to tend to make assumptions about what people have done to get to this point to become non-believers. You don't know that, you couldn't. I agree, no one should tell you that you haven't found something - that's your personal business. My personal belief is if if there is a God, all the religions have molded and shaped it to suit outside agendas, packaged it and sold it until it's unrecognizable.

Anyway, I'm not good at games. I've had encounters with you before on another thread about that age of accountability thing. I don't know what you're up to with this generic God because all religions have their brand. I just find it odd that you're trying to be so evasive that you're LDS here.

I'm not trying to be evasive about my being LDS. But like I said, I'm not trying to push my religion on anyone, I'm simply defending my belief in God.

[marabod]

Furnacewhelp, on 05 November 2009 - 08:54 PM, said:

I'm not trying to be evasive about my being LDS. But like I said, I'm not trying to push my religion on anyone, I'm simply defending my belief in God.

oh, boy! Now, finally, I get it - you are representing LDS. OK with me, why not? As the old movie says "nobody is perfect".

But I still cannot understand, why exactly are you "defending your belief in God"? Did anyone attack this your belief? And how can you defend the belief in God, if you cannot prove the existence of God in first place? LOL - here you go! You are free to believe in God! Why "defend"? God, Santa, Spaghetti Monster, Cthulkhu, Tom the Thunb - all equal! Believe, please, in whoever you like to believe! Are you sure you only want to believe? Or maybe something else too? I thought you were after some extras, sorry if I was mistaken. Consider your belief wish granted, please.

[Furnacewhelp]

marabod, on 05 November 2009 - 12:36 AM, said:

Care to provide an expanded quote, where I accused you in pushing your religion?

I Quote You.

marabod, on 04 November 2009 - 07:15 PM, said:

I absolutely do not care what exactly in my posts you can invert and use "against me", as the very topic you are trying to discuss is completely out of my personal consideration, even be you a Dalai Lama, whom I respect for his humanitarian activities. But something tells me you are not Dalai Lama at all, as that one would not be pushing his "religion" onto the others and it is to date unclear if he believes in God at all, or he just dreams of all us becoming like saints. Similar way I care less if my personal opinion can accidentally insult you - you insist there is God which rules over me, and I simply tell you that there is no such God, it is the same as you may insist that I am a Chinese, and I would correct you and say I am not, it is not my business if you feel insulted after this."

Quote

I do not have any "beliefs", I am a scientist. I do not CARE about any religious club-house or Atheist club-house, because I do not need any club-house at all. This forum was advertised as suitable for all people, and this is why I am here. If you think you can do what you think is right, then give it a test - go to the nearest Mosque and start preaching there what you preach here. If you come out unscratched - means you are ready to expose yourself to the "public" in general. Your religion (whatever be it) is respected only until it becomes offensive.

Atheism is the theory or belief that God does not exist, therefore if you don't believe in God you are an atheist even if you do not label yourself as such. And the belief that God does not exist is itself a belief. Everyone has beliefs about something. You are limiting the word to the world of religion. You can believe that a law should be overturned or put into place. You can believe that a specific type of music is better than another. Anyone who says they have no beliefs is either lying or a mental.

And correct me if I am wrong, but I was talking about God. You were the one who brought up religion.

[marabod]

Furnacewhelp, on 05 November 2009 - 09:15 PM, said:

Atheism is the theory or belief that God does not exist, therefore if you don't believe in God you are an atheist even if you do not label yourself as such. And the belief that God does not exist is itself a belief. Everyone has beliefs about something. You are limiting the word to the world of religion. You can believe that a law should be overturned or put into place. You can believe that a specific type of music is better than another. Anyone who says they have no beliefs is either lying or a mental.

And correct me if I am wrong, but I was talking about God. You were the one who brought up religion.

Atheism is not a belief that there is no God - Atheism is a way of thinking, which does not take God into account. God who? Of course you are not wrong anyhow, but your theories of Atheism are unfortunately only suit internal LDS consumption. I have no theories of who LDS guys are - I only know they believe in something which I do not take into account.

[Furnacewhelp]

marabod, on 05 November 2009 - 02:11 AM, said:

oh, boy! Now, finally, I get it - you are representing LDS. OK with me, why not? As the old movie says "nobody is perfect".

But I still cannot understand, why exactly are you "defending your belief in God"? Did anyone attack this your belief? And how can you defend the belief in God, if you cannot prove the existence of God in first place? LOL - here you go! You are free to believe in God! Why "defend"? God, Santa, Spaghetti Monster, Cthulkhu, Tom the Thunb - all equal! Believe, please, in whoever you like to believe! Are you sure you only want to believe? Or maybe something else too? I thought you were after some extras, sorry if I was mistaken. Consider your belief wish granted, please.

First of all you spelled "Cthulhu" wrong. I know I am free to believe in God. If you accept that then why do you feel the need to attack people's beliefs?

Here is a list of quotes from you that I see as attacks that I should defend against.

Quote

those who do not have Conscience, controlling them, rely on God, as God is practically an artificial Morality

adult serious men pray and ask God which hand it is moral to use for wiping their donkey

Every blind one considers a virtue to lead the other blind and assumes the leadership - because he cannot see that the others are not blind at all...

Yep! It can be either like in religions - "my God is longer and thicker than yours!", or it can be just "God is crap, show me who YOU are".

"God" is a state of mind, which can be accidentally reached by a mature person... The experience may be so unusual, that a weak mind risks to be permanently damaged

Let us start with something more basic, than a conversation with God - say, with a conversation with Harry Potter or Sherlock Holmes. Or with Rocky (unless you prefer Bart Simpson). As soon as we get trained in liaising with these simple and commonly-known entities, we then can move a step further and talk to God. Deal?

In practical reality any religious person remains a pragmatic and an Atheist

oh, boy! Now, finally, I get it - you are representing LDS. OK with me, why not? As the old movie says "nobody is perfect".

marabod, on 05 November 2009 - 02:21 AM, said:

Atheism is not a belief that there is no God - Atheism is a way of thinking, which does not take God into account. God who? Of course you are not wrong anyhow, but your theories of Atheism are unfortunately only suit internal LDS consumption. I have no theories of who LDS guys are - I only know they believe in something which I do not take into account.

Straight from Dictionary.com

Quote

Atheism

a⋅the⋅ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm]
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

[The Silver Thong]

S♥ ♥ ♥, on 04 November 2009 - 06:41 PM, said:

Jeff what are you talking about?

thank you for clarifying...

LOL I had just watched Undercover Mosque and I was mad as hell LOL

[Beckys_Mom]

Furnacewhelp, on 05 November 2009 - 10:02 AM, said:

First of all you spelled "Cthulhu" wrong. I know I am free to believe in God. If you accept that then why do you feel the need to attack people's beliefs?

Here is a list of quotes from you that I see as attacks that I should defend against.






Straight from Dictionary.com

Correct it can be said its a belief that god doesn’t exist

But that’s just a play on word so to speak.....but Atheism is not a belief system not like a religion

To make atheism a belief system like a religion , that would require atheists to practice their belief...and what is there to practice?

What does the word Atheist mean in the dictionary.com site?


a⋅the⋅ist
 AC_FL_RunContent = 0;var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "17", "15", "<img src=\"http://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif\" border=\"0\" />", "6");interfaceflash.addParam("loop", "false");interfaceflash.addParam("quality", "high");interfaceflash.addParam("menu", "false");interfaceflash.addParam("salign", "t");interfaceflash.addParam("FlashVars", "soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fsp.ask.com%2Fdictstatic%2Fdictionary%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FA07%2FA0778000.mp3&clkLogProxyUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fwhatzup.html&t=a&d=d&s=di&c=a&ti=1&ai=51359&l=dir&o=0&sv=00000000&ip=5c29a3c9&u=audio"); interfaceflash.addParam('wmode','transparent');interfaceflash.write(); /ˈeɪ θi ɪst/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ey-thee-ist] Show IPA



–noun

a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Origin:
1565–75; < Gk áthe(os) godless + -ist



Synonyms:
Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. Infidel means an unbeliever, especially a nonbeliever in Islam or Christianity. A skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds.



Therefore Atheism cant ever be called a religion or belief system.....................for it would be like me calling IE the Christian faith a non-belief system...all because they don’t hold beliefs in other faiths and they don’t hold belief that god doesn’t exist...making them non believers .skeptics.....

But like I said- a play on words..init??

[S♥ ♥ ♥]

Omnaka, on 04 November 2009 - 03:52 PM, said:

Interesting How man thinks he can evolve, but God cannot, and does not. Infinity Evolves Imo.

Love Omnaka

how does infinity evolve? man himself doesn't evolve? lets do this can you add a little detail to your subject and predicate..What have you seen omnaka?

[marabod]

Furnacewhelp, on 05 November 2009 - 10:02 PM, said:

First of all you spelled "Cthulhu" wrong. I know I am free to believe in God. If you accept that then why do you feel the need to attack people's beliefs?

Here is a list of quotes from you that I see as attacks that I should defend against.


Straight from Dictionary.com

None of these quotes were anyhow related to yourself, and only one was addressed to you! Mostly this is my general views on the religions, not on any particular system of believes. You were insulted by me hinting that LDS is imperfect??? Do you think it is perfect? If you go this way, then a lot of things in this world must be insulting for you; but if your belief system prevents you from normal communicating with the people which do not share this your system, then there indeed must be something imperfect in it! At the moment you are marketing the faith, which makes people insulted at any other occasion, as they get sensitive to what other people may say - meanwhile the religion is supposed to be between a person and God, not between a person and other people.

Are you feeling insulted by Karl Marx? He said "religions are Opium of People" - is not this insulting? Are you feeling insulted by Nietzsche who said "Jesus Christ was the last Christian"? How about Immanuel Kant who proved that there is no God - insulting? What about Leo Taxille who wrote "The Funny Bible" - also insulted? See? I find myself in a good company! Show me yours.

[marabod]

Quote

Straight from Dictionary.com

Quote
Atheism

a⋅the⋅ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm]
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

I understand it in a way that you and dictionary.com are actually telling me how do I need to think and which "doctrine" to follow? Are you sure this definition was written by an Atheist? Is it the form of Atheism with which you find it pleasant to discuss God? I realise that you do not see how ridiculous this your reference is and how irrelevant it is to the existing reality! You do follow some doctrine - so you expect the other follow too? What if I do not follow anything at all, but simply live in the world I can myself see? Do you see any God in it? I mean physically see.

[ChloeB]

Furnacewhelp, on 05 November 2009 - 02:54 AM, said:

I'm not trying to be evasive about my being LDS. But like I said, I'm not trying to push my religion on anyone, I'm simply defending my belief in God.

I don't think I ever said you were pushing it, did I? I honestly don't think I have. I was just wondering why you didn't want to say when Mara asked you. I guess I shouldn't have blabbed, but it seemed strange you didn't want to say when you've been open about it before.

[tinieblas]

I'd give it up if i were you mate; I've had arguments with LDS before and they are trained to behave like this, simply to perplex and frustrate you! He'll keep going round and round in circles for a while and pretending to misunderstand you or try to trap you on some small semantic point until you're trapped and he can "beat" you and therefore prove the superiority of his beliefs....you didn't have a go at his religion exactly as you said but this is his way of starting an argument with you....my advice; don't bite

I think you'll find atheism is a belief; he is therefore breaking the forum rules on insulting your beliefs....