[ShaunZero]

IamsSon, on 01 November 2009 - 07:42 AM, said:

Or you could take responsibility and admit you make the decisions that have set you on that path.


I'm truly sorry you did not get the response you wanted or felt you needed. I know Christians who have had experiences very similar to Mr. Walker's that left them with no way to doubt the presence of God and I know Christians who know God and yet have never even had the slightest "sense" of His presence, they just know He is there by examining their lives and His creation.

I did everything that I personally could, and if I did something or missed something, obviously it's not easy to know the perfect way to go about it. After doing that and seeing absolutely no evidence of god from that perspective, I started looking for actual evidence of his existence. Needless to say I came up short, and that's an understatement. I was left without any reason or explanation to justify my belief in god, and left without any reason to believe one religion over another and left without any reason to believe in any god. I did what I could, so if there is a god, apparantly he's pretty sick in the head if he'd condemn a person to hell for simply not being convinced, even after trying to convince himself.

This post has been edited by ShaunZero: 01 November 2009 - 06:06 PM

[IamsSon]

ShaunZero, on 01 November 2009 - 12:04 PM, said:

I did everything that I personally could, and if I did something or missed something, obviously it's not easy to know the perfect way to go about it. After doing that and seeing absolutely no evidence of god from that perspective, I started looking for actual evidence of his existence. Needless to say I came up short, and that's an understatement. I was left without any reason or explanation to justify my belief in god, and left without any reason to believe one religion over another and left without any reason to believe in any god. I did what I could, so if there is a god, apparantly he's pretty sick in the head if he'd condemn a person to hell for simply not being convinced, even after trying to convince himself.

Shaun, are you free to make the decisions you want or is someone/something forcing you to choose?

[marabod]

IamsSon, on 02 November 2009 - 06:28 AM, said:

Shaun, are you free to make the decisions you want or is someone/something forcing you to choose?

You may find it unusual, but I would agree - any human has Free Will, so what one chooses is not anyone else's business as soon as there is no breach of existing law.

[lookingfortruth]

Bluefinger, on 01 November 2009 - 06:09 PM, said:

You mean, "Why doesn't God do something BIG and MIRACULOUS for me?" LFT, the everyday experience of life, from a biological level to the metaphysical level, is an act of God's intentional grace. The fact that we exist instead of not exist is a gift from God. Our lives, no matter how painful and heartbreaking, is better off than no life at all. Life is a gift, and to underplay life because of our sufferings is either an act of ignorance or an act of pride. If my family died, I was left jobless, and had nothing left in this life, I would still have my life. What has God done for me? He has been good to me. And if he had given me trouble, He still gave me Christ (the greatest gift ever!).

God doesn't answer to us because our suffering demands it. God answers us when and if He wants to. It wouldn't be love if He didn't reserve the right to withhold it. To go on thinking we deserve God's love is to speak of an oxymoron. Love isn't giving someone what they deserve. Love is giving someone what they don't deserve because you care about them. God's greatest demonstration of His self-giving and intentional love is the life of Jesus Christ.

God does not answer to us. He gave us the gift of life, not the other way around. We answer to Him.

"if it can be proven, it counts"

I'm talking on a worldwide scale, god has never helped anyone. Its been us helping us, and whenever that happens god is nowhere to be found. All of what you just wrote is based on an assumption.

Mistydawn, on 01 November 2009 - 06:50 PM, said:

Okay 'Lookingfortruth' I haven't read through all of the posts, but enough to know that people will try to validate their belief in the God of Creation enough to say He has done PILES of things for them.

My response to your question is this:

My God, the god of the belief I have that states He/male and infinitismally correct in all His endevours, hasn't done anything for me ever.
People, friends, acquaintances, family member, complete strangers, they have 'done for me' when I needed help, it was "People/Human-beings' who have helped me.
Spiritually enclined people, will say, "Aaaaagh, but that was God working through them...." S* I * T *!!!! THATwas PEOPLE!! Human's, no god/deity workings AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

exactly, us helping us, and other people trying to give the sky the credit

Furnacewhelp, on 01 November 2009 - 05:48 AM, said:

They aren't his mistakes. This world is shaped by our choices. When we make a choice that results in a negative outcome it's up to us to correct it. You say God is lazy but you are the one who wants him to come down and fix all of your mistakes for you. Lazy lazy lazy.

so god intentionally creating an imperfect world full of sin and terrible things isn't his mistake? According to an all knowing god, this would have been easily forseable.

This post has been edited by lookingfortruth: 01 November 2009 - 07:23 PM

[Godsnmbr1]

LFT, are you actually hoping for someone to convert you to Christianity? If not, move on and stop putting everything in a Christian perspective.

[Beckys_Mom]

lookingfortruth, on 01 November 2009 - 07:19 PM, said:

I'm talking on a worldwide scale, god has never helped anyone.

Gee hmm that makes you the most popular person on this planet........................for you have just implied you know so many peoples personal opinions on god...........and you know for a fact god hasnt helped them? ok how do you know this?

[lookingfortruth]

Beckys_Mom, on 01 November 2009 - 08:22 PM, said:

Gee hmm that makes you the most popular person on this planet........................for you have just implied you know so many peoples personal opinions on god...........and you know for a fact god hasnt helped them? ok how do you know this?

If god did help people, then why do 25000 people die of starvation each day? If he really did wouldn't that be picking and choosing, and what reason would he have of helping you or anyone else more privilaged than these 25000? sounds kinda mean don't it Thats why I believe 100% of all stories of god helping people were either caused by human things, were fiction, or just plain speculation about an event. The bible teaches god loves us all, and picking and choosing does not constitute loving us all does it?

Godsnmbr1, on 01 November 2009 - 08:08 PM, said:

LFT, are you actually hoping for someone to convert you to Christianity? If not, move on and stop putting everything in a Christian perspective.

I've asked when god has ever helped anyone, if you don't want to read about the flaws in your religion don't read this thread, and both of your posts have shown me that you don't know of any times god has helped anyone.

This post has been edited by lookingfortruth: 01 November 2009 - 08:51 PM

[ChloeB]

lookingfortruth, on 01 November 2009 - 02:49 PM, said:

I've asked when god has ever helped anyone, if you don't want to read about the flaws in your religion don't read this thread, and both of your posts have shown me that you don't know of any times god has helped anyone.

Just check out some of these sports figures being interviewed after a winning game or some of those that win a grammy and say, "I'd like to give a shout out to the man upstairs" or "give a holla to my man JC." Apparently, he just likes the winners, LFT. LOL, I always laugh when I see that and wonder what the guys who lost think about God now.

This post has been edited by ChloeB: 01 November 2009 - 09:57 PM

[lookingfortruth]

ChloeB, on 01 November 2009 - 09:52 PM, said:

Just check out some of these sports figures being interviewed after a winning game or some of those that win a grammy and say, "I'd like to give a shout out to the man upstairs" or "give a holla to my man JC." Apparently, he just likes the winners, LFT. LOL, I always laugh when I see that and wonder what the guys who lost think about God now.

hahaha yes thats a very good point.

[S♥ ♥ ♥]

ChloeB, on 01 November 2009 - 01:52 PM, said:

Just check out some of these sports figures being interviewed after a winning game or some of those that win a grammy and say, "I'd like to give a shout out to the man upstairs" or "give a holla to my man JC." Apparently, he just likes the winners, LFT. LOL, I always laugh when I see that and wonder what the guys who lost think about God now.

Clobear, great point girl ... I giggle on this also, I think they say anything to appease the fans, lets face it no fan base, no big money....tee hee....Its marketing ....


if they are in China I bet they are rubbing the buddha's belly, or Russia the atheists belly ha ha ha ha
I can't tell you how many stars I see on Get real with Bill Maher getting real about the g-d construct.... wink wink... tee hee....

its politics of making money, they say what will make the most money...

This post has been edited by S♥ ♥ ♥: 01 November 2009 - 10:22 PM

[ShaunZero]

IamsSon, on 01 November 2009 - 12:28 PM, said:

Shaun, are you free to make the decisions you want or is someone/something forcing you to choose?

Every choice a person makes is caused by inner AND outer things. Especially when it comes to choosing whether something is worth believing in or not.

[The Infidel Guy]

lookingfortruth, on 01 November 2009 - 12:49 PM, said:

If god did help people, then why do 25000 people die of starvation each day? If he really did wouldn't that be picking and choosing, and what reason would he have of helping you or anyone else more privilaged than these 25000? sounds kinda mean don't it Thats why I believe 100% of all stories of god helping people were either caused by human things, were fiction, or just plain speculation about an event. The bible teaches god loves us all, and picking and choosing does not constitute loving us all does it?

In fact its more than 35,000 children who die of starvation each day and that's just children, we haven't even touched on adults, but i get your point and a good one at that.

Be prepared for the "God helps them through other people" line..... its a popular theme and utter nonsense.

God is not All-Loving nor is God All-Powerful for if "it" was then it would rid everything that has caused destruction to mankind, from disease to famine etc, in order to live a "perfect" life since God is said to be "perfect" and we were created in His image.

Quote

I've asked when god has ever helped anyone, if you don't want to read about the flaws in your religion don't read this thread, and both of your posts have shown me that you don't know of any times god has helped anyone.

Don't worry about him. He tends to be one of those people who just likes to spectate and then see's a post in which he has a momentary impulse to post and decides to type a few words which absolutely has nothing to do with the topic.... its a frequent occurrence.....it's annoying like a mosquito with hiccups but ignoring such people they eventually fly away...

Peace

T.I.G

[lookingfortruth]

ShaunZero, on 01 November 2009 - 10:21 PM, said:

Every choice a person makes is caused by inner AND outer things. Especially when it comes to choosing whether something is worth believing in or not.

I have said this a couple times and I'm so glad someone else sees it this way too!

The Infidel Guy, on 01 November 2009 - 10:28 PM, said:

In fact its more than 35,000 children who die of starvation each day and that's just children, we haven't even touched on adults, but i get your point and a good one at that.

Thank you for the correction

This post has been edited by lookingfortruth: 01 November 2009 - 11:00 PM

[IamsSon]

ShaunZero, on 01 November 2009 - 04:21 PM, said:

Every choice a person makes is caused by inner AND outer things. Especially when it comes to choosing whether something is worth believing in or not.

Sure, there are always external circumstances that limit choices, I mean if you're male, you cannot (given the current state of medicine) be pregnant, if you've flunked 12th grade you can't graduate, etc., and I know you're intelligent enough to know that. So, again, I ask: "Shaun, are you free to make the decisions you want or is someone/something forcing you to choose?"

[S♥ ♥ ♥]

IamsSon, on 01 November 2009 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sure, there are always external circumstances that limit choices, I mean if you're male, you cannot (given the current state of medicine) be pregnant, if you've flunked 12th grade you can't graduate, etc., and I know you're intelligent enough to know that. So, again, I ask: "Shaun, are you free to make the decisions you want or is someone/something forcing you to choose?"

son If there is "always" external circumstances that limit choice isn't that forcing (motivating) towards a certain choice?

This post has been edited by S♥ ♥ ♥: 01 November 2009 - 11:37 PM