[Universal Sight]

UFOs? yes.
E.T's flying them? No.

The UFO's are most likely our own aircraft or experiments that are witheld from us for security reasons. IF E.T.'s were here flying around im sure within 60 years of the government being accused of collaboration or learning from them, we wouldve had to know by now one way or the other.

Would the E.T.'s really be that submissive? Would they really need us to keep them alive here? What would they gain?

The odds of them being able to habit this planet without catastrophic results for their kind is low. Unless they were to also adapt or find cures for diseases/bacteria that they would be prone to succumb to. I just dont see it. The same thing would happen to us if we were to try to colonize another planet.

[ohio state buckeyes]

sinewave, on 02 November 2009 - 05:51 PM, said:

The experiences during sleep paralysis seem to be tied to the culture of the people. In Japan people often report an old woman standing beside the bed. In Europe there is the famous old hag theme. Other cultures report various creatures sitting on chests or holding down limbs. It is all part of the same phenomenon. I agree, it is strange that abduction reports in Mexico are rare.

Thats interesting. What are your thoughts about people having abductions experiences that occur while they are driving and have passengers with them that witness a ufo ?

[sinewave]

ohio state buckeyes, on 02 November 2009 - 06:07 PM, said:

Thats interesting. What are your thoughts about people having abductions experiences that occur while they are driving and have passengers with them that witness a ufo ?

The first recorded abduction case supposedly happened that way. I really don't know what to make of it. The bottom line is all we have are anecdotes.

[tinieblas]

my reason for thinking governments would cover it up? people are, for the main, stupid and would panic

[747400]

Universal Sight, on 02 November 2009 - 10:59 PM, said:

UFOs? yes.
E.T's flying them? No.

The UFO's are most likely our own aircraft or experiments that are witheld from us for security reasons.

Ah, but there's the thing. if they were secret aircraft being withheld from us for security reasons, why hover over cities, or buzz civilian aircraft, or even cause your own or your own allies' fighters to be scrambled to intercept them? That seems the very opposite of security.

[mcrom901]

sinewave, on 02 November 2009 - 10:51 PM, said:

The experiences during sleep paralysis seem to be tied to the culture of the people. In Japan people often report an old woman standing beside the bed. In Europe there is the famous old hag theme. Other cultures report various creatures sitting on chests or holding down limbs. It is all part of the same phenomenon. I agree, it is strange that abduction reports in Mexico are rare.

have you looked into the reports coming from the strassman studies concerning dmt?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=9JsioLI9UmE
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_MAbgJtuZ9A

[mcrom901]

sorry glitch in the matrix..... double post

This post has been edited by mcrom901: 03 November 2009 - 08:17 AM

[123er]

People who believe in ufo's need to get a job, and im not talking about being paid. On that note even people who don't believe in ufo's should get a job. We all deserve jobs.

[Coffey]

123er, on 03 November 2009 - 09:09 AM, said:

People who believe in ufo's need to get a job, and im not talking about being paid. On that note even people who don't believe in ufo's should get a job. We all deserve jobs.

Speak sense ffs.


Believe in UFO's?! If you don't believe ins UFO's then you are the dumbest person on the planet. A UFO is an unidentified flying object, a plane or bird can be a UFO until someone identifies it.

[Coffey]

Wookietim, on 02 November 2009 - 02:46 PM, said:

I have no problem believing in life on other planets... But i have a problem believing that life is here.

In order for that to work, not only would the concept of traveling the huge distances have to be conquered, but the basic question of "Why?" would have to be answered. Let's face it - there are two ways aliens could travel to the Earth from another planet :

1. Take millions of years in huge ships to get here
2. Open up some sort of wormhole system to travel very quickly

in the first case, one would think that they would make their presence known - after all, they are here for the rest of their lives so it doesn't really make much sense to remain hidden.

In the second case, we would sense those wormholes popping open and closed (Let's face it - the Earth is studying the universe every moment of the day - we'd probably sense a sudden burst of particles somehow when one opened or closed).

So, unless there is a third option, there is no way aliens are visiting us.

What a load of bull.

"Why?"

Well if you had the tech to travel the universe etc, wouldn't you seek out other life, to learn new things, find out answers to the big questions.


Their "huge ships" would have to so advanced to get here anyway that I doubt it would take long at all obviously. How do you know that opening up some sort of wormhole system is impossible?! Our scientists might be behind but if they are an older race then they would be years a head of us.




"one would think that they would make their presence known - after all, they are here for the rest of their lives so it doesn't really make much sense to remain hidden."


Well if they where that advanced firstly they would monitor us for years to work out whether or not we are worth making contact with and whether it would be safe or benefit them/us in anyway. You wouldn't jump into a lions pride without watching them from a safe distance first? Secondly, if they where that advanced then they would travel back and fourth easily or set up a close base... (hence mars/moon etc theories)


We know our own system so well that we never realised there was a dwarf planet very close to us that is bigger than Pluto... How the hell is that even possible?! So not seeing wormholes etc wouldn't really be impossible.

[sinewave]

Coffey, on 03 November 2009 - 03:43 AM, said:

What a load of bull.

"Why?"

Well if you had the tech to travel the universe etc, wouldn't you seek out other life, to learn new things, find out answers to the big questions.


Their "huge ships" would have to so advanced to get here anyway that I doubt it would take long at all obviously. How do you know that opening up some sort of wormhole system is impossible?! Our scientists might be behind but if they are an older race then they would be years a head of us.




"one would think that they would make their presence known - after all, they are here for the rest of their lives so it doesn't really make much sense to remain hidden."


Well if they where that advanced firstly they would monitor us for years to work out whether or not we are worth making contact with and whether it would be safe or benefit them/us in anyway. You wouldn't jump into a lions pride without watching them from a safe distance first? Secondly, if they where that advanced then they would travel back and fourth easily or set up a close base... (hence mars/moon etc theories)


We know our own system so well that we never realised there was a dwarf planet very close to us that is bigger than Pluto... How the hell is that even possible?! So not seeing wormholes etc wouldn't really be impossible.

Why? Well, there is still no evidence outside of anecdotes. Sixty years of anecdotes and null hypothesis is all you have to support the visitation theories. That's it. There is not a shred of physical evidence to go on.

[Coffey]

sinewave, on 03 November 2009 - 03:33 PM, said:

Why? Well, there is still no evidence outside of anecdotes. Sixty years of anecdotes and null hypothesis is all you have to support the visitation theories. That's it. There is not a shred of physical evidence to go on.

The person who I replied to didn't have a shed of evidence to go on either and his theories where not thought out at all, that was my point.

[Wookietim]

ohio state buckeyes, on 02 November 2009 - 04:54 PM, said:

They could 100,000 years more advanced then us , just think how far we've come in last 600 years. Its a mistake to limit another world to our understanding of science . We dont even know if wormholes exist so I can you say we would sure to see it ? 150 ago if you told someone their great great grand kids would see a man walk on the moon, they would you were nuts.

Unfortunately we do have to limit our understanding of what is possible to what we know at the moment. After all if we start simply saying "They have some technology that breaks what we know of the laws of physics" then we might as well just call theses things magical creatures... At that point we have left any grounding in reality (As we understand it) and have simply flown off into the realms of fantasy.

I have no problem realizing that we don't know all the laws of physics yet - that is not the problem. But until we ascertain that the laws we do know can be broken, then we really shouldn't just introduce the concept of technology that does break them. There is the temptation to do that of course, but the second we simply substitute some fantasy device capable of doing whatever we want then we are introducing magic and might as well call UFOs Unicorns and Dragons - there is no difference between some primitive form of mythology and modern science at that point.

[Wookietim]

sinewave, on 03 November 2009 - 10:33 AM, said:

Why? Well, there is still no evidence outside of anecdotes. Sixty years of anecdotes and null hypothesis is all you have to support the visitation theories. That's it. There is not a shred of physical evidence to go on.

There has been tantalizing bits of evidence beyond just personal anecdotes - strange radar returns, interesting photos and physical traces. Some of them cannot currently be explained... Which to my mind says that there may very well be something to the phenomenon.

Of course, jumping from "There's something to this" straight to "There is an intergalactic federation of planets that is visiting us and conducting genetic experiments" is a bit of a stretch (To understate it)...

This post has been edited by Wookietim: 03 November 2009 - 03:42 PM

[747400]

Wookietim, on 03 November 2009 - 03:42 PM, said:

There has been tantalizing bits of evidence beyond just personal anecdotes - strange radar returns, interesting photos and physical traces. Some of them cannot currently be explained... Which to my mind says that there may very well be something to the phenomenon.

Of course, jumping from "There's something to this" straight to "There is an intergalactic federation of planets that is visiting us and conducting genetic experiments" is a bit of a stretch (To understate it)...

I'd agree there. i think there is plenty of evidence, albeit most of it is anecdotal or circumstantial.

However, I think I'd also say that as regards this

Wookietim, on 03 November 2009 - 03:39 PM, said:

Unfortunately we do have to limit our understanding of what is possible to what we know at the moment. After all if we start simply saying "They have some technology that breaks what we know of the laws of physics" then we might as well just call theses things magical creatures... At that point we have left any grounding in reality (As we understand it) and have simply flown off into the realms of fantasy.

I have no problem realizing that we don't know all the laws of physics yet - that is not the problem. But until we ascertain that the laws we do know can be broken, then we really shouldn't just introduce the concept of technology that does break them. There is the temptation to do that of course, but the second we simply substitute some fantasy device capable of doing whatever we want then we are introducing magic and might as well call UFOs Unicorns and Dragons - there is no difference between some primitive form of mythology and modern science at that point.

I'm sure that scientists would be the first to say that they, and therefore we, don't know everything yet, in fact I expect we probably don't even know the tiniest fraction of what there is to know. That's why they keep trying to find out new things, like spending all that money on that hadron collider device. And a lot of the technology that we take for granted now would, I'm sure, seem as magick to the ancients, or even people 200 years ago, say. I mean, think how electricity would seem magical to someone in the 16th century. So becuase we don't know, yet, whether there might be away of getting round the laws of physics, I don't think need mean that it need be in the realms of fantasy that someone might already have been able to.