[SpiderCyde]

Greatest I am, on 02 November 2009 - 02:10 PM, said:

Are believers culpable for overpopulation?


This question was born from my hearing the story of a man with 17 children of whom 6 were not as normal, so to speak, as the rest. No twins. This family is poor and arguably has no quality of life.


Most Gods favor a reproducing group of adherents.
Without adherents, there relevance would be lost to history.

From Adam on down, we have not let God down, we have reproduced.

Be they Eastern or Western religions, are religions and believers responsible for our dismal control of reproduction?

Are believers culpable for our overpopulation?


Regards
DL

No believers aren't responsible, many non believers drop a bunch of kids, some even for welfare, or financial purposes. Human dumbassersy is what is responsible, which in a sense encompasses some believers and some non believers.

The problem is, the "Be fruitful and multiply" verse supposedly applies to the handful of people left alive after the Biblical flood several thousand years ago. If some believers can't even understand that, something is wrong with them in the common sense department. I mean come on, say you get someone pregnant...if you're not ready for it in terms of responsibility, 3 lives become incredibly difficult, but 17-20 lives, that's a nightmare for everyone.

This post has been edited by SpiderCyde: 03 November 2009 - 03:37 PM

[redhen]

Siara, on 03 November 2009 - 03:55 AM, said:

There were four brothers there, one year apart. Their mother had just informed the orphanage that she was pregnant and would be dropping ANOTHER kid off in a couple of months. What caused this situation? The Catholic Church with their barbaric refusal to address the issue of family planning.

YES they're culpable.

The Roman Catholic Church has always taught responsible parenthood as part of their family planning program. http://www.usccb.org...nfp/index.shtml Did you know that Italy has the lowest birth rate in the world besides Japan? Yeah, those Italians are just slaves to the Pope's commands, uh huh.

I submit that the current human overpopulation crisis is due to 3rd world countries (like Ecuador) lack of basic social safety nets. Isn't that why you were there at that orphanage?

Without social safety nets, these families rely on their offspring to take care of them in old age. And why should these corrupt 3rd world countries even bother setting up such social assistance when the developed world rushes to provide them. That frees up money to prop up their corrupt regimes and feed their armies.

http://www.msf.org/m...FTOKEN=59717633

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

[Greatest I am]

Sylent Nyte, on 03 November 2009 - 11:42 AM, said:

I don't believe so, actually. Most adherents to one Faith or another that I am friendly with are people of good sense and sound logic. They PLAN well, and make sure that they are able to support a child before having one. I know a bloke who is going to be married this December, and he's gone and bought up a good share in his workplace in order to prepare for two children in a three-year timeframe. This is a pious Catholic we're talking about, and the wife is also quite devout.

This however is an example of a person who has the means to plan, not someone who has a family without the means to support any form of planning. It may help the discussion if you could give us a demographic study of recent births(ie. in the last 5-10 years) of:

-What age group are having these babies
-The income of the families these babies are being born into
-The location where the majority of babies are born(country as well as region)
-Social caste into which the most babies are born, and
-if said social caste has the financial capacity to support X number of children.

This would at the very least give us a bit of empirical data to base any extrapolations on.

Here is all I need to know for sure.

http://library.think...esent/stats.htm

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

randomhit10, on 03 November 2009 - 03:50 PM, said:

you know what?...i'm going to apologize to you for the earlier post i made...it just bothered me that almost every post you make bashes "believers", for the most incredible things....so instead of arguing back and forth i'm going to ask you exactly what is it about someone being a believer that bothers you so much?...so much so, that it must absorb you every waking moment...that must be very hard for you....maybe we can help your situation if you are willing...

randomhit10

My main bug is that I always try to tell the truth.

Most believers say things that are not the truth and cannot be the truth yet they continue to lie.

The only thing any of us owe each other is the truth as we know it.

For religionists, of which I am one as I am a believer, to continue to cry wolf without showing the tracts or the **** is just uncouth.

As one of them, they insult me when they get Religulous with their claims.

Regards
DL

[randomhit10]

Greatest I am, on 04 November 2009 - 09:29 PM, said:

My main bug is that I always try to tell the truth.

Most believers say things that are not the truth and cannot be the truth yet they continue to lie.

The only thing any of us owe each other is the truth as we know it.

For religionists, of which I am one as I am a believer, to continue to cry wolf without showing the tracts or the **** is just uncouth.

As one of them, they insult me when they get Religulous with their claims.

Regards
DL

what are some of the lies you are being told?...i agree...you should not be lied to..

randomhit10

[Greatest I am]

http://en.wikipedia....s_by_birth_rate

[randomhit10]

Greatest I am, on 04 November 2009 - 09:33 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....s_by_birth_rate

i am not sure i understand what you are saying...please clarify what the lies that bother you most are...

thanks randomhit10

[Mr Walker]

The causes of explosive population growth in the last 3 centuries is well studied and understood. It is best expressed in a theory called transition theory., which you can probably google.
Interestingly , the period of pop growth is reaching an end. Almost every developed country is below repalcement level in fertility and birth rate. By 2050 even the less developed countries will be in a similar condition and the world pop will begin a period of substantial decline. This will involve different problems which will be at least as serious as over population.
Basically, over pop occurs when the birth rate exceeds the death rate. Thus things which reduce death rate, such as medicine and science have at least as much influence on pop as things which affect the birth rate likesocial change the pill, and the cost of raising children. When children (anywhere in the world) become a net economic cost rather than a net ecomnomic benefit, almost inevitably, the birth rate drops substantially. As countries develop this scenario becomes more common . In a develped country the cost of raising a child is much higher and the opportuities to benefit are much lower.(except perhaps in Australia, where large govt handouts and benefits for having chidren, have slightly raised the fertility level although it remains well below replacement levels)

Even here working class families, and esp the welfare dependent, have more kids because, for them, it is less of an economic impact. The rich, strangely, can "afford" fewer children.
For example a working class family with 4 kids can earn more in benefits and money by having kids than by working. (Including a cash payment of about 6000 dollars at the birth of each child, and generous ongoing income. They also get rent relief, reduction of many govt charges and service costs, free schooling, and substantial other benefits.)
But a professional person remains much better off working, and not having kids.

Ps the crude birth rate is a bit misleading unless studied closely
To reach simple replacement level, on average, every woman in the world must have 2.1 or 2.2 children in their lifetime . That replaces themselves, their partner and allows a small percentage for children who never reach the age of reproduction. Looking at fertility levels will give a clear idea of population trends.

This post has been edited by Mr Walker: 05 November 2009 - 11:45 PM

[lookingfortruth]

or we could blame india, whos poorer areas have limited areas of entertainment. The result is a lot of kids

[tcgram]

Greatest I am, on 02 November 2009 - 03:44 PM, said:

In today's reality, is it moral for a family to have a dozen children even if they can afford it?

The butterfly effect says that a family that does so is killing someone else somewhere else.

Regards
DL

I'm not familiar with the "Butterfly Effect", I will have to do some research on it. I still believe that it's morally okay to have a big family if you can support them. But that's my opinion on it.

[Greatest I am]

randomhit10, on 05 November 2009 - 04:50 PM, said:

i am not sure i understand what you are saying...please clarify what the lies that bother you most are...

thanks randomhit10

The lies I speak of are those where people try to show where God breaks all the laws of physics and nature.

Talking snakes and donkeys, water walking or turning water to wine. Virgin births and on and on.
All from a God that creates souls that will burn forever in a hell.

That kind of dogma that is lies.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

lookingfortruth, on 06 November 2009 - 03:26 AM, said:

or we could blame india, whos poorer areas have limited areas of entertainment. The result is a lot of kids

http://en.wikipedia....s_by_birth_rate

http://en.wikipedia....ions_by_country


Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

tcgram, on 06 November 2009 - 04:25 AM, said:

I'm not familiar with the "Butterfly Effect", I will have to do some research on it. I still believe that it's morally okay to have a big family if you can support them. But that's my opinion on it.

The butterfly effect says that the more children that those who can afford them has, the more children will starve to death elsewhere.
With global warming, you might also think that if, let's say 100 of us, use air conditioning then one black man will die of heat problems.

Strange but true.
We do not live in a vacuum.
All that we do has an effect.

Regards
DL

[markdohle]

Greatest I am, on 02 November 2009 - 04:43 PM, said:

Hmm.
Google that topic and recant.
China is not all atheist.

Regards
DL

The government is. The law of having only one child lead to the killing of many female children. I think however that law has been changed since all those chldren were killed in an earthquake when the school caved in.

Peace
mark

[markdohle]

Greatest I am, on 06 November 2009 - 11:03 AM, said:

The butterfly effect says that the more children that those who can afford them has, the more children will starve to death elsewhere.
With global warming, you might also think that if, let's say 100 of us, use air conditioning then one black man will die of heat problems.

Strange but true.
We do not live in a vacuum.
All that we do has an effect.

Regards
DL

Unless you want government regulation, your question does not make sense. For some having one child is too much, so what, should we give out a license to those who can have children? Hmmmmm education would be a good idea ;-); get a dipolma on child rearing before a child can be had. Also putting a limit on children could also have a butterfly effect that would be painful in its fruits.

Peace
mark