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Christians, can you clear a few things up? A few things I'm wondering. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   PixelPerfect 


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Posted 03 November 2009 - 02:40 AM

These days "new age", and non-traditional christians share a large majority of what we call "christianity." So, to avoid confusion; I'll define christian as a belief in God(Yaweh, ancient jewish god), aswell as Jesus(the son of, or the earthly form of, God/Yaweh.) aaaaand that a belief in and acceptence of Jesus results in everlasting life/heavely promise, or other goodies.


Right, first question: why is the Bible so historically inaccurate? I'm sure the historical innacuracies have been pointed out to you. In case they haven't; tell me, I'll dredge some up for you.
Wouldn't a perfect God make no mistakes in his record keeping? Especially considering that some of the records were not supposed to be documentable except through God

Second question:
Hundreds of bible prophecies have failed to come true, why?
The bible is ripe with prophecies that never got fullfilled.
Again, I'll get some for you, if you want.

Final question:
What's with the bibles' constant obsesion with animals that never existed?
The bible like unicorns, even says God was stronger than one.
And dragons...



Please, answer these questions for me.

This post has been edited by PixelPerfect: 03 November 2009 - 02:43 AM

There's no reason to doubt anything, even the complete lack of evidence leaves it open as a possibility.

To say anything is contradictory is to assume we know everything.

And finally, not everything can be true, even if you provide proof.

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 02:44 AM

View PostPixelPerfect, on 02 November 2009 - 06:40 PM, said:

These days "new age", and non-traditional christians share a large majority of what we call "christianity." So, to avoid confusion; I'll define christian as a believe in God(Yaweh, ancient jewish god), aswell as Jesus(the son of, or the earthly form of, God/Yaweh.) aaaaand that a belief in and acceptence of Jesus results in everlasting life/heavely promise, or other goodies.


Right, first question: why is the Bible so historically inaccurate? I'm sure the historical innacuracies have been pointed out to you. In case they haven't; tell me, I'll dredge some up for you.
Wouldn't a perfect God make no mistakes in his record keeping? Especially considering that some of the records were not supposed to be documentable except through God

Second question:
Hundreds of bible prophecies have failed to come true, why?
The bible is ripe with prophecies that never got fullfilled.
Again, I'll get some for you, if you want.

Final question:
What's with the bibles' constant obsesion with animals that never existed?
The bible like unicorns, even says God was stronger than one.
And dragons...



Please, answer these questions for me.


Judiasm and christianity are not the same, that is the first error...


I am thinking you are wanting to discuss jesus, can you please be clearer ...thank you
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#3 User is offline   PixelPerfect 


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Posted 03 November 2009 - 03:10 AM

View PostS♥ ♥ ♥, on 03 November 2009 - 02:44 AM, said:

Judiasm and christianity are not the same, that is the first error...


I am thinking you are wanting to discuss jesus, can you please be clearer ...thank you



No, I'm not interested in discussing Jesus...
Actually, I'm interested in discussing the obvious holes in various areas of the old testament(should have specified in my OP). I directed this question towards christians because they tend to want to defend the bible with a bit more vigor than some others do; at least looking hard for scientific and archeological evidence in
favor of it.

I should also mention that judaism and christianity have the same Old testament God; I.E. Yaweh, which is why I compared them.

This post has been edited by PixelPerfect: 03 November 2009 - 03:12 AM

There's no reason to doubt anything, even the complete lack of evidence leaves it open as a possibility.

To say anything is contradictory is to assume we know everything.

And finally, not everything can be true, even if you provide proof.

#4 User is offline   123er 


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Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:57 AM

Let me preach to u my brotha jesus died for your sins do not ask petti questions such as yours just accept it and move on.

#5 User is offline   Guyver 


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Posted 03 November 2009 - 02:53 PM

View PostPixelPerfect, on 02 November 2009 - 07:40 PM, said:

Right, first question: why is the Bible so historically inaccurate? I'm sure the historical innacuracies have been pointed out to you. In case they haven't; tell me, I'll dredge some up for you.
Wouldn't a perfect God make no mistakes in his record keeping? Especially considering that some of the records were not supposed to be documentable except through God

Second question:
Hundreds of bible prophecies have failed to come true, why?
The bible is ripe with prophecies that never got fullfilled.
Again, I'll get some for you, if you want.

Final question:
What's with the bibles' constant obsesion with animals that never existed?
The bible like unicorns, even says God was stronger than one.
And dragons...



Please, answer these questions for me.


Yes, I would like you to cite some historical inaccuracies and some failed prophecies that you find in the Bible.

Next, the reason that there are some errors, or typos is because people are human and make mistakes. The scriptures have been around alot longer than the printing press, so they had to be copied down by hand. In general, the scriptures were copied very accurately. This can be proven by examining the modern Bibles' book of Isaiah and that of the Dead Sea Scrolls version of the same book. There is a remarkable consistency there, I've heard somewhere above 96%. Many Christians accept that the scriptures in their original form were without error and flawless.

Another difficulty arises in language usage. Words, and meanings change. I've described this before on these boards. If you go back just 30 years in American English (like say watch an old movie) you'll find an entirely different colloquial vernacular. Now, compare the writing of Shakespear with our modern language which is only a few hundred years old, and you'll find it almost impossible to understand. So, the Bible has been updated with modern language to make it readable to us. There is bound to be some distortion with word choice as words often have two or more meanings and Bible scholars have used the words that they feel best captures the meaning.

A key point to consider is that inspite of being copied millions of times and translated into almost every language on the planet, the Bible is remarkably consistent and the basic message is clear. There is a God, he loves us, and has tried to reconcile the entire world to himself through his son Jesus Christ.

The questions about unicorns and other animals are similar. How do you translate the word gnu? It's possible that the word unicorn, or horned animal could fit under the right circumstances.
If at first you don't succeed; don't try skydiving. Warren Miller

#6 User is offline   IamsSon 


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Posted 03 November 2009 - 03:50 PM

View PostPixelPerfect, on 02 November 2009 - 08:40 PM, said:

These days "new age", and non-traditional christians share a large majority of what we call "christianity." So, to avoid confusion; I'll define christian as a belief in God(Yaweh, ancient jewish god), aswell as Jesus(the son of, or the earthly form of, God/Yaweh.) aaaaand that a belief in and acceptence of Jesus results in everlasting life/heavely promise, or other goodies.


Right, first question: why is the Bible so historically inaccurate? I'm sure the historical innacuracies have been pointed out to you. In case they haven't; tell me, I'll dredge some up for you.
Wouldn't a perfect God make no mistakes in his record keeping? Especially considering that some of the records were not supposed to be documentable except through God

Second question:
Hundreds of bible prophecies have failed to come true, why?
The bible is ripe with prophecies that never got fullfilled.
Again, I'll get some for you, if you want.

Final question:
What's with the bibles' constant obsesion with animals that never existed?
The bible like unicorns, even says God was stronger than one.
And dragons...



Please, answer these questions for me.


Can you present your bona fides, please. I mean, if you're going to overthrow 2,000+ years of scholarly research, I think it's proper to know what kind of education and research you have backing your claim.
"The repentance that really changes your heart and your relationship with God begins when you recognize that your main sin, the sin under the rest of your sins, is your self-salvation project.... Even diligent involvement in church and religion may need to be repented of once we understand that it was all a way to put God and others in our debt."
--Timothy Keller The Reason for God

#7 User is offline   Corp 


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Posted 03 November 2009 - 05:04 PM

View PostPixelPerfect, on 02 November 2009 - 09:40 PM, said:

These days "new age", and non-traditional christians share a large majority of what we call "christianity." So, to avoid confusion; I'll define christian as a belief in God(Yaweh, ancient jewish god), aswell as Jesus(the son of, or the earthly form of, God/Yaweh.) aaaaand that a belief in and acceptence of Jesus results in everlasting life/heavely promise, or other goodies.


Right, first question: why is the Bible so historically inaccurate? I'm sure the historical innacuracies have been pointed out to you. In case they haven't; tell me, I'll dredge some up for you.
Wouldn't a perfect God make no mistakes in his record keeping? Especially considering that some of the records were not supposed to be documentable except through God

Second question:
Hundreds of bible prophecies have failed to come true, why?
The bible is ripe with prophecies that never got fullfilled.
Again, I'll get some for you, if you want.

Final question:
What's with the bibles' constant obsesion with animals that never existed?
The bible like unicorns, even says God was stronger than one.
And dragons...



Please, answer these questions for me.



1) The Bible was written down by men. Likewise before that I'm sure the stories were passed down orally. During that time you're going to have some things added or taken away, mistakes in the printing and translations, and just plan old human error. There may have also been errors in the information received by those who put together the Bible. Given we're looking at a document that's thousands of years old it's not surprising to find errors in it.

2) Because they just haven't come true? Whoever came up with the prophecies just misunderstood what they were seeing and guessed wrong.

3) Myth animals are cool and help liven up a story. Could be that at one point there was a tribe in conflict with the Jews for who a unicorn was very important. One of those 'my god can beat up your god' kind of deals. Mythic creatures can be found in just about every faith. Or maybe there were unicorns around and God just beat them all up ;)

This post has been edited by Corp: 03 November 2009 - 05:07 PM


#8 User is offline   Guyver 


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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:40 PM

View PostPixelPerfect, on 02 November 2009 - 08:10 PM, said:

No, I'm not interested in discussing Jesus...
Actually, I'm interested in discussing the obvious holes in various areas of the old testament(should have specified in my OP). I directed this question towards christians because they tend to want to defend the bible with a bit more vigor than some others do; at least looking hard for scientific and archeological evidence in
favor of it.

I should also mention that judaism and christianity have the same Old testament God; I.E. Yaweh, which is why I compared them.


So, I take it you're not actually interested in discussing these so-called "holes" after all?
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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:48 PM

To the OP, if you're wanting to discuss The Old Testament, you may want to consider adressing the followers of Judiasm instead of the Christian crowd.

#10 User is offline   IamsSon 


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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:58 PM

Hmm, OP hasn't posted since Monday.
"The repentance that really changes your heart and your relationship with God begins when you recognize that your main sin, the sin under the rest of your sins, is your self-salvation project.... Even diligent involvement in church and religion may need to be repented of once we understand that it was all a way to put God and others in our debt."
--Timothy Keller The Reason for God

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 09:46 PM

View PostPixelPerfect, on 03 November 2009 - 02:40 AM, said:

These days "new age", and non-traditional christians share a large majority of what we call "christianity." So, to avoid confusion; I'll define christian as a belief in God(Yaweh, ancient jewish god), aswell as Jesus(the son of, or the earthly form of, God/Yaweh.) aaaaand that a belief in and acceptence of Jesus results in everlasting life/heavely promise, or other goodies.


Right, first question: why is the Bible so historically inaccurate? I'm sure the historical innacuracies have been pointed out to you. In case they haven't; tell me, I'll dredge some up for you.
Wouldn't a perfect God make no mistakes in his record keeping? Especially considering that some of the records were not supposed to be documentable except through God

Second question:
Hundreds of bible prophecies have failed to come true, why?
The bible is ripe with prophecies that never got fullfilled.
Again, I'll get some for you, if you want.

Final question:
What's with the bibles' constant obsesion with animals that never existed?
The bible like unicorns, even says God was stronger than one.
And dragons...



Please, answer these questions for me.


give me your best one of each...

randomhit10

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 09:53 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 03 November 2009 - 03:50 PM, said:

Can you present your bona fides, please. I mean, if you're going to overthrow 2,000+ years of scholarly research, I think it's proper to know what kind of education and research you have backing your claim.


Well christians dont have any of that...no ofence...the bible and thats it

This post has been edited by Beckys_Mom: 04 November 2009 - 09:54 PM

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:42 PM

I'm a christian and I am educated.

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 02:08 AM

View PostPixelPerfect, on 02 November 2009 - 08:40 PM, said:

Right, first question: why is the Bible so historically inaccurate? I'm sure the historical innacuracies have been pointed out to you. In case they haven't; tell me, I'll dredge some up for you.
I'm a more robust Orthodox Christian. In reply to your question, I would bring up two things to keep in consideration:

1) History is his_story. That means is that there is always interpretation, agenda, and bias when it comes to writing a story. For example: Were the Hyksos really trouble makers or is that how Egypt portrayed them? Did Abraham Lincoln truly abhor slavery or did he see abolition as more beneficial to taxes? These among many things. The Bible writers have their take on things, those they wrote about have their take on things, and we have our take on how their things went.

2) The Bible shows that not just one person wrote it and also (and primarily) that the tradition of Scripture memorization preserved that fact. The history of the Essenes as well as their parchments in the Dead Sea caves show that Scripture memorization and writing was strictly practiced back then just as much as it is today. That being said, the Bible was canonized primarily on tradition, and secondarily on doctrine. The historical accuracies had little say so in it, and with good reason, IMO. I'll address that next.

Quote

Wouldn't a perfect God make no mistakes in his record keeping? Especially considering that some of the records were not supposed to be documentable except through God


I think that you are in error by applying your reasoning to Biblical reasoning. Science, math, and many other academias don't leave room for faith. They work off of methods that are tested and proven. The Bible, however, is not a method. The Bible leaves room for faith. It leaves room for inaccuracies. And it leaves room for interpretation. This is for a good reason, I assure you. The Bible, if read from a methodic point of view, doesn't seem to hold a consistent pattern, other than being inconsistent. This can be shown where Jesus is called the Lion of the Tribe of Judah in Revelation 5:5, but then a Slain Lamb in Revelation 5:6. Also, in some places, Jesus says that He did not come to bring peace, but a sword, but then says, "My peace I give unto thee."

These remain as inconsistencies so long as the interpretation is not of the Holy Spirit. There is no method to the Holy Spirit, as Peter had showed Simon Magus. The Holy Spirit works according to God's will, and God's will can not be brought about any efforts other than His own.

So, method=bad. Faith=good. That is the simmered down explanation of why the Bible seems inconsistent to you. It's in your manner of interpretation. If you truly believe in God, you won't need the Bible to prove every inch of it to you. If you are looking to the Bible to prove God to you, then you are still missing out on one key and effective element of faith: Experience. Until you see and experience other believers, it will just look like words to you.

Quote

Second question:
Hundreds of bible prophecies have failed to come true, why?
The bible is ripe with prophecies that never got fullfilled.
Again, I'll get some for you, if you want.
Many Christians believe in the 'Already, not yet' explanation. (God already fulfilled them when He spoke them according to His eternality, but we have yet to see them in our time.) What that means is that we believe that, since God came through on His promise in saving us through Jesus, He will come through on His other promises when He sees fit. Again, it requires faith. Faith is the evidence. If you don't have it, you won't find evidence.

Quote

Final question:
What's with the bibles' constant obsesion with animals that never existed?
The bible like unicorns, even says God was stronger than one.
And dragons...

What's your obsession with the Bible's mention of them? :P

The Bible used terrible animals to provide a point about Himself, being the Creator of these things. Back then, men didn't dare challenge a 'dragon', yet they dared to challenge God, who made the dragon. That would be the case when God mentioned to Job the greatness of Leviathon. Also, God mentioned how great the Behemoth was to Job. Evidently, when looking for an accusation against God, Job would have had no place to speak. The Behemoth in all its power and might did not even dare to challenge God. How much more right does a weak man?

Quote

Please, answer these questions for me.


As is most cases, I'm skeptical that I've provided what you wanted to hear. But I told you exactly what I believe. Take care!

This post has been edited by Bluefinger: 05 November 2009 - 02:19 AM

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 02:12 AM

View PostNeognosis, on 04 November 2009 - 10:42 PM, said:

I'm a christian and I am educated.



I was talking about providing back up...producing anything that can show real proof
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