[Perdition]

IamsSon, on 07 November 2009 - 02:02 PM, said:

Yes, there is a belief withing Christian circles that the Bible supports the idea that the Earth is approximately 10,000 years. But given the fact that the cultures of the area where the Bible was written were known not to include every generation in their genealogies and were known to say :"So-and-so was the father of ..." when he was actually the grandfather or great-grandfather or more really puts into question the idea of using genealogies to correctly establish the age of the Earth.

There is nothing in the Bible which can be used to accurately calculate the age of the Earth.


Perdition, you just supported the reason why I'm asking for bona fides from the OP. There are a lot of things that people (including those who consider themselves life-long Christians) think are written in the Bible which are not. There are things which are taken incredibly out of context, and there are parts which are poetic, parts which are allegorical, there are parables which most likely were not actual events, but just stories to make a point, etc. So, if someone is going to come in here and make the bold claims the OP did, he or she should be willing to tell us what their academic credentials are.

I think the fact that the OP has not posted since the request was made speaks volumes.

Then I take it that you are the type of christian that takes the bible in metaphorically rather than literally?

The only problem about religious people that i have are the ones who try to disprove science with the bible. Or rather making false claims about science to disprove science, if that makes any sense...

[Beckys_Mom]

Perdition, on 07 November 2009 - 06:24 PM, said:

Then I take it that you are the type of christian that takes the bible in metaphorically rather than literally?

In a sense yes many do that..they take it in a metaphorically sense.......it speaks to them more and helps them understand

Like the horoscopes.....if you believe the stars tell your future..if it doesnt make sense...due to you fuilly believing in them.....you might not agree with what the star sign reads...BUT YOU WILL SEE IT AS A METAPHORE AND RUN WITH IT..CLAIMING YOUR STAR SIGN HAS SPOKEN TO YOU LOL

sorry for the CAPS

[IamsSon]

Perdition, on 07 November 2009 - 12:24 PM, said:

Then I take it that you are the type of christian that takes the bible in metaphorically rather than literally?

The only problem about religious people that i have are the ones who try to disprove science with the bible. Or rather making false claims about science to disprove science, if that makes any sense...

No, I am the type of Christian who studies the Bible and respects it as a message from my Creator. Some parts are intended to be metaphorical and some parts are intended to be literal. There are parts that are intended to be accounts of actual events, although not necessarily intended to be a scientific treatise on the subject. For example, the creation account. I believe it to be true, but I understand from various studies of the cultures and languages of the area, that the word translated as "day" can not only mean a literal 24 hour day, but also a period of time, so creation may have taken more than 7 literal 24 hour days.

[Beckys_Mom]

IamsSon, on 07 November 2009 - 06:58 PM, said:

No, I am the type of Christian who studies the Bible and respects it as a message from my Creator. Some parts are intended to be metaphorical and some parts are intended to be literal. There are parts that are intended to be accounts of actual events, although not necessarily intended to be a scientific treatise on the subject. For example, the creation account. I believe it to be true, but I understand from various studies of the cultures and languages of the area, that the word translated as "day" can not only mean a literal 24 hour day, but also a period of time, so creation may have taken more than 7 literal 24 hour days.

Trouble with that is.....the bible doesnt state it is a book meant to be taken metaphorically

So when you claim some parts are intended <---that is of your own opinions

This post has been edited by Beckys_Mom: 07 November 2009 - 07:07 PM

[ChloeB]

IamsSon, on 07 November 2009 - 12:58 PM, said:

No, I am the type of Christian who studies the Bible and respects it as a message from my Creator. Some parts are intended to be metaphorical and some parts are intended to be literal. There are parts that are intended to be accounts of actual events, although not necessarily intended to be a scientific treatise on the subject. For example, the creation account. I believe it to be true, but I understand from various studies of the cultures and languages of the area, that the word translated as "day" can not only mean a literal 24 hour day, but also a period of time, so creation may have taken more than 7 literal 24 hour days.

So how do you choose which parts to be metaphorical and literal? I'm guessing that it's those parts that blatantly contradicts scientific proof like the 7 days, but how do you know any is meant to be taken literally if you're having to make adjustments here and there on how to take it?

[Beckys_Mom]

ChloeB, on 07 November 2009 - 07:18 PM, said:

So how do you choose which parts to be metaphorical and literal? I'm guessing that it's those parts that blatantly contradicts scientific proof like the 7 days, but how do you know any is meant to be taken literally if you're having to make adjustments here and there on how to take it?

Spot on lol....its a matter of what one likes to pick out for themselves lol


Like - Ohh I like that its litteral...........errr I dont like the sound of that..I'll call that a metaphore and link my own ideas to it lol

[Irishman]

Beckys_Mom, on 07 November 2009 - 05:44 PM, said:

Pease provide actual scientific facts that religion has in fact been able to prove...go on do tll ..this should be interesting

as you seem to be under the impression that religion has facts.........go on list them ?

I am not saying whether the bible is based on absolute fact or it isn't, however its the first resource archeoligists use to determine geography so we do know that it is based on at least some fact which is far far far far more than anything atheism has which is based on the ideoalgy that those who sit firmly in the corner of the evolutionary pardigm do so as a result of some illusion of higher brow whilst anyone stupid enough to believe in devine worship have no greater intelligence than primitive beings who we will assume where ignorant of the world (WHICH WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE AT ALL FOR SAY THE PALEONTOLOGISTS NOT ME)

However, i will sit comfortably in my chair, i'll even give you years, for you to show ONE piece of scientific evidence that proves we are nothing more than an evolutionary being. Of course you would hold your own beliefs to the same standards of scrutiny that you so readily riducle others.

[IamsSon]

ChloeB, on 07 November 2009 - 01:18 PM, said:

So how do you choose which parts to be metaphorical and literal? I'm guessing that it's those parts that blatantly contradicts scientific proof like the 7 days, but how do you know any is meant to be taken literally if you're having to make adjustments here and there on how to take it?

Well, that is why studying is important, that along with guidance from the Holy Spirit. You see, I am not a Bible scholar, but I do read books written by scholars, I am also fortunate to know several professors and life-long scholars. I know people who speak Hebrew and Greek, and even Aramaic, and other ancient Middle Eastern languages, and/or are experts in the cultures and societies of the Ancient Middle East and the literature of these societies. These experts can then make educated interpretations regarding the literary styles used in the Bible which can then help a reader understand the Bible properly.

Now take the 7 days of creation. Like I said, the word "yom" can mean a 24-hour day, but it can also mean an unspecified period of time. So, that means that the creation story may not mean God took 6 24-hour days to create the world. But it may also mean that He did. However, whether you believe he did it in 24-hour literal days, or He did it in 6 different periods of time, the important thing is, God created life on Earth.

[Beckys_Mom]

Irishman, on 07 November 2009 - 09:33 PM, said:

I am not saying whether the bible is based on absolute fact or it isn't,

As you have not been able to provide any real scientific evidence to back the bible up....and we all know there isnt any...if there was everyone would know it by now

Its a book of FAITH <---and when anyone denies it to be a book of FAITH...then its ignorance

As for providing evidence that its not factual <--Religion does this for us..by lack of evidence....when we so ZERO evidence..thats proof enough

[M.A.D]

Beckys_Mom, on 08 November 2009 - 04:56 AM, said:

As you have not been able to provide any real scientific evidence to back the bible up....and we all know there isnt any...if there was everyone would know it by now

Its a book of FAITH <---and when anyone denies it to be a book of FAITH...then its ignorance

As for providing evidence that its not factual <--Religion does this for us..by lack of evidence....when we so ZERO evidence..thats proof enough

lest us not forget that with it there is some truth and just because one can't find the truth in one's search, dos not mean it is not there.

[ChloeB]

IamsSon, on 07 November 2009 - 08:33 PM, said:

Well, that is why studying is important, that along with guidance from the Holy Spirit. You see, I am not a Bible scholar, but I do read books written by scholars, I am also fortunate to know several professors and life-long scholars. I know people who speak Hebrew and Greek, and even Aramaic, and other ancient Middle Eastern languages, and/or are experts in the cultures and societies of the Ancient Middle East and the literature of these societies. These experts can then make educated interpretations regarding the literary styles used in the Bible which can then help a reader understand the Bible properly.

Now take the 7 days of creation. Like I said, the word "yom" can mean a 24-hour day, but it can also mean an unspecified period of time. So, that means that the creation story may not mean God took 6 24-hour days to create the world. But it may also mean that He did. However, whether you believe he did it in 24-hour literal days, or He did it in 6 different periods of time, the important thing is, God created life on Earth.

I fear if I was a Christian, I might end up a fundie, taking every bit literal so I wouldn't feel like I was cheating. Like BM was saying up above - going literal sometimes, metaphorical the other, kind of opens a door to pick what you like as literal, what you're not so fond of as metaphorical. I see what you're saying though, an educated opinion is probably the best you can hope for. Sheeesh, sure seems complicated. You'd think God would make following him one of the most natural things we do, not so technical.

[Homer]

ChloeB, on 07 November 2009 - 03:18 PM, said:

So how do you choose which parts to be metaphorical and literal? I'm guessing that it's those parts that blatantly contradicts scientific proof like the 7 days, but how do you know any is meant to be taken literally if you're having to make adjustments here and there on how to take it?

As IamsSon stated, you have to study. Just to add a little to this, one can’t properly study the bible simply by reading the english translation. I think its important to utilize a concordance where a word you question can be translated to the original language, and then utilize a biblical dictionary to find the various definitions of that original word. What needs to be clear is that modern scholars understand more about the ancient writing styles than they did centuries ago when the bible was translated to english.
Another thing to consider is the most famous of the english bibles, the so-called ‘King James Version’, was never written for the purpose of providing the most concise and literal translation of the ancient manuscripts, but was written simply as a compromise to the differences between the Bishops Bible and the Geneva Bible.
Another thing to consider is the context of the scripture. To better understand the verses, its important to know who the author is, who is the author writing to, the purpose of the book(the bible comprises more than a dozen different books), the time period the book was written in. Because the Hebrews/Jews(OT) and 1st century christians/Jews(NT) weren’t living in a bubble, an understanding of the surrounding culture was important also.
One last thing to consider is Satan. Nobody knows scripture and the various churches/doctrines like Satan. When the Holy Spirit led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan, it was by the scriptures Satan did most of his temptations through. Satan was quoting scripture to tempt Jesus, but because Jesus understood the context of the scripture, He wasn’t fooled. Fast forward to modern days, and you still have Satan fooling the masses with scripture through his false prophets.

ACTS 17: 10-11(NASB)
(10)The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
(11)Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.(NASB)
Don't just take your parents/teachers/preachers word for it. Examine/question to see if the things they say are truly in accordance to the scriptures.

[ChloeB]

Homer, on 08 November 2009 - 11:34 AM, said:

churches/doctrines like Satan. When the Holy Spirit led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan, it was by the scriptures Satan did most of his temptations through. Satan was quoting scripture to tempt Jesus, but because Jesus understood the context of the scripture, He wasn’t fooled. Fast forward to modern days, and you still have Satan fooling the masses with scripture through his false prophets.

I didn't know that, actually had to look it up and found that he was quoting something out of Psalms.

[Tiggs]

IamsSon, on 08 November 2009 - 02:33 AM, said:

Now take the 7 days of creation. Like I said, the word "yom" can mean a 24-hour day, but it can also mean an unspecified period of time. So, that means that the creation story may not mean God took 6 24-hour days to create the world. But it may also mean that He did. However, whether you believe he did it in 24-hour literal days, or He did it in 6 different periods of time, the important thing is, God created life on Earth.

Interesting.

Can you show somewhere in the Bible where yom means an unspecified period of time? Every single use of the word I can find always refers to a day.

[Beckys_Mom]

M.A.D, on 08 November 2009 - 02:58 PM, said:

lest us not forget that with it there is some truth and just because one can't find the truth in one's search, dos not mean it is not there.

Yeaa trouble is no man alive has been able to find the real truth out there

So each stick to FAITH...and what they wishto believe is real truth to them and for them..