[The Silver Thong]

If a mod wants to move this to a different section be my guest as this could be in a couple different forums.


I saw this on the news today and was like wow how far are we going to take this. If one religion is banned from wearing religous symbols it should be done in accordance with everyone no questions asked. Take a look at this and lets see how you folks feel about it. Me I'm really indifferent but also think one law/rule for everyone. If Christians can't display the cross then nobody should be able to adorn there religous symbols or clothing either.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/8340411.stm

[Cadetak]

Isn't the article just about hanging crosses in public schools? I don't see anything in regards to dress code

[stevewinn]

it'll go all the way until one day common sense returns.

[DieChecker]

It is ridiculous. Are they forcing the students to pray to those crosses, or forcing some other kind of behaviour on them? If not then the cross is just a decoration as far as the non-believe is concerned and there is no harm. Just like when you go out for Chinese food and there are little Buddas everywhere. To me they are just decorations, not religious articles.

I tend to agree though that if they ban crosses and Christian icons, then all religions should follow. No Christian clothing allowed, means no yarmulkes or turbans, no veils and no other "offensive" items or clothing. Let's see what a stink is raised when the other religions get their symbols taken away.

[Bill Hill]

Don't really know what to make of this.

yet another controversial decision by the European court of Human rights.
Gonna wind up the Italians for sure.

This post has been edited by Bill Hill: 03 November 2009 - 09:51 PM

[The Silver Thong]

Cadetak, on 03 November 2009 - 12:54 PM, said:

Isn't the article just about hanging crosses in public schools? I don't see anything in regards to dress code

Doh I thought I read that they wern't allowed to were the cross as jewlery. Maybe it's in another article as this is pasted all over the net. As far as hanging a cross in a public school I actually do agree with not having them in public schools. Hmmmmm better go re-read my OP LOL

[aquatus1]

DieChecker, on 03 November 2009 - 08:46 PM, said:

It is ridiculous. Are they forcing the students to pray to those crosses, or forcing some other kind of behaviour on them? If not then the cross is just a decoration as far as the non-believe is concerned and there is no harm.

The question would be this: If these crosses were defaced, would that be vandalism or a hate crime?

[DieChecker]

aquatus1, on 03 November 2009 - 01:24 PM, said:

The question would be this: If these crosses were defaced, would that be vandalism or a hate crime?

Vandalism definately. Hate Crime perhaps. Interesting angle on the question.

[susieice]

Not having them in public classrooms I can understand, but I'm thinking that they're still allowed in catholic schools. I wouldn't have a problem with that. What you want to wear around your neck though is up to you. That's not exactly the same as a public display. I hope you did misread that somewhere ST.

[The Silver Thong]

susieice, on 03 November 2009 - 07:04 PM, said:

Not having them in public classrooms I can understand, but I'm thinking that they're still allowed in catholic schools. I wouldn't have a problem with that. What you want to wear around your neck though is up to you. That's not exactly the same as a public display. I hope you did misread that somewhere ST.

I would have to go back and look but I do recall another issue were hospital staff in the UK were told they couldn't wear the cross anymore. Hmmm let me look yup first look see.

http://www.dailymail...-infection.html

The claim was it might spread infection. Lets look at that then. No rings no necklaces no ear piercings whats next. Maybe we should ban turbans and head dress as they will carry far more infectious material than a necklace could ever carry. Wonder how a ban on that would go over. Keep in mind I'm not a religious fellow

In my OP it stated that they were no longer to be allowed because they were offensive to other faith groups or I guess atheists to but to me any religous symbol means little or nothing except that religion is silly at best.

This post has been edited by The Silver Thong: 04 November 2009 - 02:17 AM

[susieice]

That is bull. How can you pass on an infection by wearing a necklace. Here we're told the most danger comes from your fingernails. We aren't supposed to let them grow more than 1/4 of an inch past the tip of the finger. Earrings. They have to be kidding. How many patients come in contact with a nurse's earrings? We aren't told how many earrings we can wear either but we're to cover ones in unusual places and any tatooes. It's best not to wear ones that dangle. Our watch is part of our uniform. We need to be able to take vital signs at any time. Wash your hands every time you assist a patient and when your finished. Carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer in your pocket.

I agree. If all jewelry is banned, then Drs. and it's usually Drs., should have to remove their turbans. They wear them in the operating room, or a least I know a few that do. Your jewelry is personal and whether you wear a cross, a star of David, a Buddha statuette, or anything else is nobody elses business. I wear my birthstone. Is that not fair to the other 11 months?

[Cadetak]

The Silver Thong, on 03 November 2009 - 04:14 PM, said:

Doh I thought I read that they wern't allowed to were the cross as jewlery. Maybe it's in another article as this is pasted all over the net. As far as hanging a cross in a public school I actually do agree with not having them in public schools. Hmmmmm better go re-read my OP LOL

Yeah your OP article is only about crucifixes being hanged in classrooms in Italy. Seems like there may be something else closer to what your talking about somewhere because other members seemed riled up too...that or I was the only one who read the OP. Didn't see anything in my news but then again I'm on the other side of the ocean.

[The Silver Thong]

Cadetak, on 03 November 2009 - 11:11 PM, said:

Yeah your OP article is only about crucifixes being hanged in classrooms in Italy. Seems like there may be something else closer to what your talking about somewhere because other members seemed riled up too...that or I was the only one who read the OP. Didn't see anything in my news but then again I'm on the other side of the ocean.

It is and there are other example of religious symbols being selected as offensive. For Italy to ban the cross/crucifix anywhere in Italy must tick them off. That was more or less where I was going. The Vatican getting mad over the removal of crucifix's from schools. Kinda like "who are they to dictate" then I went oh ya

I was more or less surprised to see the Vatican yet again lose ground.

This post has been edited by The Silver Thong: 04 November 2009 - 06:21 AM

[Cadetak]

The Silver Thong, on 03 November 2009 - 09:14 PM, said:

I would have to go back and look but I do recall another issue were hospital staff in the UK were told they couldn't wear the cross anymore. Hmmm let me look yup first look see.

http://www.dailymail...-infection.html

The claim was it might spread infection. Lets look at that then. No rings no necklaces no ear piercings whats next. Maybe we should ban turbans and head dress as they will carry far more infectious material than a necklace could ever carry. Wonder how a ban on that would go over. Keep in mind I'm not a religious fellow

It's a legit concern considering jewelry isn't washed. Although, just having a no jewelry dress code in any business is justification enough.

Quote

In my OP it stated that they were no longer to be allowed because they were offensive to other faith groups or I guess atheists to but to me any religous symbol means little or nothing except that religion is silly at best.

The primary reason is or at least should be that Italy has a separation of church and state.

If it were an item or picture of a different religion I'm sure there would be an even bigger fuss. Imagine a teacher hanging a picture of Tom Cruis

Quote

It is and there are other example of religious symbols being selected as offensive. For Italy to ban the cross/crucifix anywhere in Italy must tick them off. That was more or less where I was going. The Vatican getting mad over the removal of crucifix's from schools. Kinda like "who are they to dictate" then I went oh ya

I'm not too sure on what direction this is going in Italy, for the moment I'm assuming it's the same type of deal that applies in the U.S. If I'm right and there separation of church and state is similar to ours...then this is just an issue because the catholics like to idolize statues and are insecure.

"Who are they to dictate" coming from the Catholic Church is one big epic ironic lulz in itself.

This post has been edited by Cadetak: 04 November 2009 - 06:24 AM

[The Silver Thong]

Cadetak, on 03 November 2009 - 11:20 PM, said:

It's a legit concern considering jewelry isn't washed. Although, just having a no jewelry dress code in any business is justification enough.


The primary reason is or at least should be that Italy has a separation of church and state.

If it were an item or picture of a different religion I'm sure there would be an even bigger fuss. Imagine a teacher hanging a picture of Tom Cruis


I'm not too sure on what direction this is going in Italy, for the moment I'm assuming it's the same type of deal that applies in the U.S. If I'm right and there separation of church and state is similar to ours...then this is just an issue because the catholics like to idolize statues and are insecure.

"Who are they to dictate" coming from the Catholic Church is one big epic ironic lulz in itself.

So we agree that there should be zero jewelry worn? If thats the case right on

Italy and the separation of church and state is almost an oxymoron. However they are progressive. It has only been recently that the Vatican didn't play a very important part in WWII and Italy. As far as the U.S. and it's clandestine friends LOL

As far as symbolism goes where do we draw the line? In my home town a symbolic dagger was not allowed into a concert at a government/private building being leased for a concert. The ones that were refused entry tried to break the law by bringing weapons/daggers, guess what? they sued. Hence when do we have to supersede religion to keep the peace/law?

Most important thing, one Law for all ! If we want to all be treated as equals then so be it. Might be worse as we slip down the politicaly correct highway but damn it's going to happen.

Come on man, the Vatican dictates a crap load and when caught in a no dumping zone they move on