[Sein_Engel09]

IamsSon, on 04 November 2009 - 12:47 PM, said:

OK, so he is part of that denomination, but does he actually adhere to their beliefs?

The reason I ask is that "Christian" has become a very watered-down term which almost has no real meaning. According to Nazarene beliefs he is supposed to be very intent about making Christlike disciples in the nations, does he do that? Or is he someone who was raised in a Nazarene house but doesn't really practice?

he does practice it. i mean he doesnt just call himself something just for the hell of it. you would have to know him to understand. lol!

[IamsSon]

Sein_Engel09, on 04 November 2009 - 02:44 PM, said:

he does practice it. i mean he doesnt just call himself something just for the hell of it. you would have to know him to understand. lol!

And he's OK with the fact that you're a Wiccan? Doesn't that violate some of the values of the Nazarene's?

[exeller]

Sein_Engel09, on 03 November 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:

okay, will someone please explain to me why the hell there is so much hatred for people of different religious beliefs than another person? its ridiculous, childish and a waste of time. i really dont understand why people get this rush or satisfaction from bashing others beliefs. yes, i realize its been happening for as long as religion has been around in different times, but its the 21st century, dont you think its time to grow up and drop this non sense? seriously, of all the things occuring in this day and age, don't you think worrying about what other peoples religious beliefs should be one of the last things on our minds? its possible for people of opposing religions to get along. take my fiance and me for example. he is a hardxcore christian and i am a wiccan. we get along beautifully and are, obviously, getting married. im not sayin that everyone in every religion should do this, but its an example of how people can get along even though they dont have the same religious views.
i shall digress...i caught myself ranting.
please let me know your opinions.

Usually when I argue with someone, it's not to bash them for their beliefs. Their beliefs just sound incorrect to me so I take some time to point it out. I think it's a worth while thing to do.

This post has been edited by exeller: 04 November 2009 - 10:26 PM

[Sein_Engel09]

IamsSon, on 04 November 2009 - 02:58 PM, said:

And he's OK with the fact that you're a Wiccan? Doesn't that violate some of the values of the Nazarene's?

he's not totally okay with it, but he feels the same way i do. love surpasses a lot...he chose to overlook my religion to be with me. see, this is why sometimes religion bothers me. the whole marriage thing. family members flip if the person their relative is marrying isnt the same religion as them. it's ridiculous in my eyes, but i cant go against someone's feelings about something that important to them.

[SpiderCyde]

I sometimes wonder when people will be intelligent enough to realize they can transcend religion. Why be one, when you can be all. Take a step back, outside of religion in general, look in, take the positive aspects of each and apply them to better yourself. Different religons, or even the lack of religion...there really shouldn't ever be the question of "do i accept it?", or "do i not accept it?" Look at differing religons as data. Learn it, apply it, don't limit yourself to one form, but it is good to have a base that you identify with. Kind of like the different styles of Kung Fu. Learning many styles makes you a better overall fighter. You still have your main style though.

This post has been edited by SpiderCyde: 05 November 2009 - 03:58 PM

[Mr Walker]

Quote

Without the challenges to religion we would still be owning slaves, women would be second class citizens and many would be dead because of the dependence on prayer and "god's will".

Of course, many would argue that, without the sense of human spirituality which underlies all religious belief, and indeed without the organised support of religious groups, we would still have slaves, and women would still have no rights.

Religion/faith moves individuals in individual ways. Those who first ended the slave trade, and many suffragettes, were deeply spiritual /religious people, whose actions grew from their beliefs.
The truth is that great social movemnets are driven by many complex imperatives. These are largely economic, (slavery is never abolished until it is no longer an economically viable system. Women never get equality until economic circumstances lead to the need for a new role for women) or based on changing sciences and technologies(Womens lib, and the sexual revolution, never takes off until women can control their fertility.)

This post has been edited by Mr Walker: 06 November 2009 - 02:51 AM

[Purplos]

Quote

i really don't understand why people get this rush or satisfaction from bashing others beliefs.

... or gender, or sexuality, or body shape, or brand of jeans, or favorite sports team, or hobbies, or intelligence level, or hair color, or...

You get the picture?
Some people just enjoy bashing others. For some crazy reason, mean feels good to them.

[karl 12]

Purplos, on 06 November 2009 - 03:58 AM, said:

... or gender, or sexuality, or body shape, or brand of jeans, or favorite sports team, or hobbies, or intelligence level, or hair color,

...or non belief.

I've always wondered how can an organisation/sect/cult whose followers are instructed to beleive that they are somehow more special/chosen/saved/superior to other human beings not be inherently bigoted.

Any ideas?

This post has been edited by karl 12: 06 November 2009 - 11:48 AM

[Rosewin]

Sein_Engel09, on 03 November 2009 - 04:17 PM, said:

okay, will someone please explain to me why the hell there is so much hatred for people of different religious beliefs than another person? its ridiculous, childish and a waste of time. i really dont understand why people get this rush or satisfaction from bashing others beliefs. yes, i realize its been happening for as long as religion has been around in different times, but its the 21st century, dont you think its time to grow up and drop this non sense? seriously, of all the things occuring in this day and age, don't you think worrying about what other peoples religious beliefs should be one of the last things on our minds? its possible for people of opposing religions to get along. take my fiance and me for example. he is a hardxcore christian and i am a wiccan. we get along beautifully and are, obviously, getting married. im not sayin that everyone in every religion should do this, but its an example of how people can get along even though they dont have the same religious views.
i shall digress...i caught myself ranting.
please let me know your opinions.

I agree but I also think we need to let people learn to rise above the negativity in their own timing. Many of them actually think they are doing a good thing and making the world better but inside they are simply not at peace with the way some things are and so you can see it by the way they say cruel things about others and then laugh about it as if somehow they are truly superior. Religious people do this too. Luckily there are more and more people like you and your fiance in this world.

As you said we cannot go against someone's feelings about something that's important to them. Others will say I am wrong and it is important to try and change wrong attitudes and beliefs but it is not me that will stop them from going out to try and change the world but themselves when they finally realize the only they can truly change in this world is themselves.

How does that story go though? You can choose to run charging down the hill to try and catch all the cows only to have them all run away or you can simply walk down calmly and take them all. Something like that.

This post has been edited by Rosewin: 06 November 2009 - 11:40 AM

[HAJiME]

It's human nature to want other people to see your way, which obviously must be the right way, or you wouldn't believe it.

I think there's almost a hint of ignorance in not understanding why people try to "convert" others. Or, rather, try to demonstrate why they are right and the other person is wrong... You're doing it now and so am I.

[lookingfortruth]

I do it because it gives me something to do, and I love to argue. Its not my fault if religious people play along, and I don't hate people of other religions. But as wrong as it is, it makes me feel a step above them. Maybe even superior if you were to go that far.

in short, a self esteem boost?

This post has been edited by lookingfortruth: 07 November 2009 - 08:18 PM

[Beckys_Mom]

karl 12, on 04 November 2009 - 01:42 PM, said:

That comic strip spells out one thing --> LOOPHOLE LOL

[mklsgl]

karl 12, on 06 November 2009 - 05:50 AM, said:

...or non belief.

I've always wondered how can an organisation/sect/cult whose followers are instructed to beleive that they are somehow more special/chosen/saved/superior to other human beings not be inherently bigoted.

Any ideas?

Great post, karl 12. It happens during socialization, when we are forming our identity--and it's better known as Markedness and Othering: We know what we are by what we are not; We know know who we are by who we are not--and the such. Religion and Belief are means of Othering and Markedness. Bigotry? There is a line in a fairly well-known book that goes something like this: "We all are born equal; it's just that some of us are born more equal than others."

Is anyone truly without inherent bigotry?

[MissMelsWell]

I won't bash another persons spiritual belief. Not wiccans, not other christians, not scientologists, not even satanists etc...

What I WILL take exception with sometimes is their leadership. Specific individuals who I believe take advantage of the people who follow a doctrine. I've been quite outspoken against the methods and actions of say Pat Robertson, or the leadership of Scientology etc... I'll point the finger squarely at the individual, in a leadership position who I think might be taking advantage or inciting violence in some cases. I don't CARE what they believe, but I don't like to see a leader, or a specific group of leaders who are mistreating their members in my eyes. Just preaching a doctrine isn't enough for me to "bash" ... I might disagree with their beliefs, but I won't bash them for those beliefs. I have maybe said things in a moment of frustration I regret.

As an example; I'm not giong to say that believing in Xenu is stupid and wrong... but I might say that David Miscavige and RL Hubbard are/were horrible people who need to be stopped.

This post has been edited by MissMelsWell: 07 November 2009 - 10:55 PM

[Mr Walker]

MissMelsWell, on 08 November 2009 - 09:24 AM, said:

I won't bash another persons spiritual belief. Not wiccans, not other christians, not scientologists, not even satanists etc...

What I WILL take exception with sometimes is their leadership. Specific individuals who I believe take advantage of the people who follow a doctrine. I've been quite outspoken against the methods and actions of say Pat Robertson, or the leadership of Scientology etc... I'll point the finger squarely at the individual, in a leadership position who I think might be taking advantage or inciting violence in some cases. I don't CARE what they believe, but I don't like to see a leader, or a specific group of leaders who are mistreating their members in my eyes. Just preaching a doctrine isn't enough for me to "bash" ... I might disagree with their beliefs, but I won't bash them for those beliefs. I have maybe said things in a moment of frustration I regret.

As an example; I'm not giong to say that believing in Xenu is stupid and wrong... but I might say that David Miscavige and RL Hubbard are/were horrible people who need to be stopped.

I would agree with this, and go a little further. I am wary of any "religions" or beliefs which; reduce human potential rather than enhance it, which reduce people rather than empower them, which teach hate rather than love, which are generally destructive rather than constructive.

And it is not enough that a religion strengthens an individual, if it does so at cost to others. For me, spirituality, and even religiousity, is a supremely rational part of human nature, and it should be approached, critically analysed, and utilised, within the wider sphere of human intelligences, rather than be the only operating/driving force for a person or society.

This post has been edited by Mr Walker: 07 November 2009 - 11:50 PM