[zach28]

Beckys_Mom, on 04 November 2009 - 09:35 PM, said:

Demons IMO are created by man like a scare tactic to push you towards god..............thats how I see it

I don't know about that. I'm on the fence with the whole thing. Until i witness something for myself i willl continue to remain a skeptic in regards to possesion or religion as a whole. Pretty hard to believe in an invisible being.

[Beckys_Mom]

zach28, on 04 November 2009 - 10:58 PM, said:

I don't know about that. I'm on the fence with the whole thing. Until i witness something for myself i willl continue to remain a skeptic in regards to possesion or religion as a whole. Pretty hard to believe in an invisible being.

Man is unable to produce real factual evidence that demons actually exist...just like man cant provide evidence for god...

So you'd be sitting on the fence for a long time...thats IF you were looking for real evidence

[marabod]

zach28, on 05 November 2009 - 10:58 AM, said:

I don't know about that. I'm on the fence with the whole thing. Until i witness something for myself i willl continue to remain a skeptic in regards to possesion or religion as a whole. Pretty hard to believe in an invisible being.

In my understanding the demons have no relation to the religions. They are the man-made entities, which appear to people as personifications of their own uncontrolled emotions. Emotions can be so strong, that a person fails to control them, and then they start to rule over the person, interfering with the mind, which then in the state of fear and confusion thinks them being sent from "outside". Demons can be any - it can be an addiction of any sort, love addiction (which makes people to be stalkers), drug addiction etc. Given that our emotions are all of chemical nature (they present the elevated concentration of some specific hormones in blood) and the fact that these hormones are generated by our endocrine glands, which in turn obey our vegetative, peripheral Nervous System, it may be very hard for a person to get rid of such "possession", and the simple medication, removing the hormon from blood or depressing a certain gland, may not be as efficient as a psychological treatment of the nervous system itself; exorcism is one of such practices as it affects the nervous system and persuade it to turn off the alarming hormone.

Of course, when exorcism is done by a religious loony who believes in face value of what he/she does, this may damage the possessed person or even kill them (as it happened last year here with one Maori lady, whose relatives were performing exorcism on her by forcibly pouring ice water in her for almost 48 hours); but exorcism in general is more successfully done by a priest (as the possessed usually fears God and admits God's power over the demons, everyone read NT!) and I know this practice exists in Catholic and Orthodox churches. But there they do not do anything physical to the possessed, and limit themselves to the special prayers.

[exeller]

Beckys_Mom, on 04 November 2009 - 10:46 PM, said:

I never answer questions that I see as silly..and I NEVER will assume demons exist....if you keep going on...don't sit with a surprized look on your face that wonder why LMAO

Ohh and one more thing...



When Obama and every other president before him.....they were given the power of office by MAN....not a god....and its not the same as a SUPERNATURAL POWER

Demons = Supernatural........ Man in oval office etc - NOT

You don't seem to be getting the overall thesis and you also seem to be pretty irritated, so I'm just going to stop at that.

[Beckys_Mom]

exeller, on 04 November 2009 - 11:18 PM, said:

so I'm just going to stop at that.

good idea

[ChloeB]

marabod, on 04 November 2009 - 04:47 PM, said:

That above is of course how I myself saw the situation, so I do not insist on anything. I have no idea of how she does transformations, but in Metaphysics (remember there was a werewolves thread?) I once posted the report on Nigerian witches from Yoruba tribe, which describes similar if not the same practices - the witches either in their sleep or somehow else convert themselves in the birds or small mammals, and then can spy on someone with whom they have an emotional connection. <shrug>

Okay so did you actually see her turn into a bird?

[Beckys_Mom]

ChloeB, on 05 November 2009 - 01:37 AM, said:

Okay so did you actually see her turn into a bird?

She did turn into a bird....then got a part on Sesame Street

[ChloeB]

Beckys_Mom, on 04 November 2009 - 07:59 PM, said:

She did turn into a bird....then got a part on Sesame Street

LOL, it's always back to muppets with you!

[Beckys_Mom]

ChloeB, on 05 November 2009 - 02:03 AM, said:

LOL, it's always back to muppets with you!

Yup.you better believe it..I INVENTED the - How to be a muppet for dummies book too

[ChloeB]

Beckys_Mom, on 04 November 2009 - 08:06 PM, said:

Yup.you better believe it..I INVENTED the - How to be a muppet for dummies book too

Your powers are vast. Google's even got Big Bird on the main page today. Wow, how do you do this magic?

[marabod]

ChloeB, on 05 November 2009 - 01:37 PM, said:

Okay so did you actually see her turn into a bird?

I guess it is pointless to get deeper in all this, as this is already well off-topic.

[ChloeB]

marabod, on 04 November 2009 - 08:32 PM, said:

I guess it is pointless to get deeper in all this, as this is already well off-topic.

Aaah, well, okay. Maybe you can bring it up later, I would like to hear about it.

[marabod]

ChloeB, on 05 November 2009 - 02:35 PM, said:

Aaah, well, okay. Maybe you can bring it up later, I would like to hear about it.

Yeah, but my target was not to entertain the public! I said what I said - and if you like to find out more on the technologies themselves, you can easily find that Nigerian pdf in werewolves thread in Metaphysics forum, and there it is described by a professional guy with a serious academic degree. Why do you think the fundies are burning the witches?

[S♥ ♥ ♥]

marabod, on 04 November 2009 - 03:10 PM, said:

In my understanding the demons have no relation to the religions. They are the man-made entities, which appear to people as personifications of their own uncontrolled emotions. Emotions can be so strong, that a person fails to control them, and then they start to rule over the person, interfering with the mind, which then in the state of fear and confusion thinks them being sent from "outside". Demons can be any - it can be an addiction of any sort, love addiction (which makes people to be stalkers), drug addiction etc. Given that our emotions are all of chemical nature (they present the elevated concentration of some specific hormones in blood) and the fact that these hormones are generated by our endocrine glands, which in turn obey our vegetative, peripheral Nervous System, it may be very hard for a person to get rid of such "possession", and the simple medication, removing the hormon from blood or depressing a certain gland, may not be as efficient as a psychological treatment of the nervous system itself; exorcism is one of such practices as it affects the nervous system and persuade it to turn off the alarming hormone.

Of course, when exorcism is done by a religious loony who believes in face value of what he/she does, this may damage the possessed person or even kill them (as it happened last year here with one Maori lady, whose relatives were performing exorcism on her by forcibly pouring ice water in her for almost 48 hours); but exorcism in general is more successfully done by a priest (as the possessed usually fears God and admits God's power over the demons, everyone read NT!) and I know this practice exists in Catholic and Orthodox churches. But there they do not do anything physical to the possessed, and limit themselves to the special prayers.

pretty much what I'd say, for many reasons, cultural myths ( fears) used to control others , head injury mental illness... or a way to objectify and cast off evil behaviors that remain anyways .....

i am not seeing a lot of value in this ritual...

as a child in a religious setting, I was terrified of sleeping in the event I died, there was a plaque hanging at eye level, that said this:
Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep;
Should I die before I wake,
I pray the Lord my soul to take.

what freaked me out was I was pretty sure that there was no lord cuz I had been praying to him begging to get me and my sister out of that hell we lived in... .....

the ghost fad as of late is a post modern off shoot of all the above, the quickest way to get rid of a ghost is to not believe in it, same with the monsters inc club members ..IMO:w00t:

[momentarylapseofreason]

marabod, on 04 November 2009 - 11:47 PM, said:

She is just a young woman. Not a hag and not a sorcerer. Can be gullible like anyone of us and can trust people. But the same time she has a certain deviation from norm, caused by childhood trauma, and this adds to the tribal environment in which she was growing, as among the Pacific islanders voodoo practices are seen as something normal. I had a fun of studying her psychology for few years, talked about this feature with her parents, as her "bewitching" habits were sometimes affecting the productivity of the plant where she worked and which I was managing. Her own mother is having some fears of her and thinks she can put a "black eye" on someone, specially on the children, or damage a person remotely if she becomes angry. She is a very emotional and impulsive girl, and actually quite charming despite not really beautiful. She behaves in a way that the males look at her like rabbits at a python, as being a control freak is part of her performance.

It is really long and hard to describe the lot, but otherwise as being a witch, she is a pretty bright girl - speaks few languages, reads a lot, paints weird abstract canvasses. She likes to have fun online too, she told me she goes to IRC on austnet and catches the males there, making them her toys. She is only 26 next May. But interestingly enough - she never uses her own name, and changes the nicknames very often. I later found this feature as existing among the wiccans (the legend says if the name of the witch is pronounced, then her magic disappears, maybe because of that?). It took a lot of my pressure and persuasion and about a year of time, before she indirectly admitted her being a witch; she did not use this word but said "a chosen one" and I saw she was in fact very pleased that I understood this, but we never returned to this issue since.

That above is of course how I myself saw the situation, so I do not insist on anything. I have no idea of how she does transformations, but in Metaphysics (remember there was a werewolves thread?) I once posted the report on Nigerian witches from Yoruba tribe, which describes similar if not the same practices - the witches either in their sleep or somehow else convert themselves in the birds or small mammals, and then can spy on someone with whom they have an emotional connection. <shrug>

LOL!! This sounds like my old self. I had so many people, family members and strangers convinced I was a witch or demon possessed, that I almost believed it myself. My freakishness, violence and insanity have gotten me out getting raped on sex different occasions (even when 5 young men tried to violate me once). They claimed my face took on a mask like appearance and completely changed. If i looked at children that way they would scream. (I don't do this anymore). You could tell only superstitious people believed. Had they been Atheists they certainly would have laughed at me or had me locked up in the asylum. Different people even claimed I turned into a serpent at night, others claimed I transformed into a lizard, or my ex who claimed my eyes glowed red in the dark one night(my ex actually jumped out of a two story builing out of fear on this night). My mom would pace in front of my bed at night out of fear or keep a knife under her bed, she kicked me out. It's sick but i got off on scaring people, but it saved my life. I think its projecting something onto people, and believing it yourself almost. Almost like a form of hypnotism. When I watch those possession videos I have to laugh. they aren't even scary. Whats scary is that people believe it.

This post has been edited by momentarylapseofreason: 05 November 2009 - 04:59 AM