[Siara]

What if the US continued to ignore climate change and went on with 80's style pollution growth? Would it lead to a world war eventually? I'm just trying to imagine what would happen politically. Things would probably start with sanctions in the UN which (as usual) would have no impact. Then there would be embargoes and boycotts. But it would be difficult to enforce those given the American military.

[questionmark]

It is much simpler. Take a good look at the list of climate change deniers and then see who sponsors them. Then take a good look at the politicians in Washington during the last 10 years and who sponsored them... and...wow!

[Siara]

In some ways the question is "who could stand up to American Big Business?". One organization would be the church, actually.

[questionmark]

Siara, on 05 November 2009 - 11:24 PM, said:

In some ways the question is "who could stand up to American Big Business?". One organization would be the church, actually.

The church? The church has 0 influence outside the bible belt, and there big bidness has more influence.

[Siara]

questionmark, on 05 November 2009 - 09:26 PM, said:

The church? The church has 0 influence outside the bible belt, and there big bidness has more influence.

Not true. They have a lot of influence in the world at large. There would be a point when major floods, droughts, etc began to have serious international impact.

[BlueZone]

India is one of the first countries that will be impacted. They have the bomb. That would make the international community pay attention.

[Michelle]

questionmark, on 05 November 2009 - 09:26 PM, said:

The church? The church has 0 influence outside the bible belt, and there big bidness has more influence.

http://en.wikipedia...._USA-states.png

Not according to this map. Will this fallacy ever stop?

[questionmark]

Siara, on 05 November 2009 - 11:29 PM, said:

Not true. They have a lot of influence in the world at large. There would be a point when major floods, droughts, etc began to have serious international impact.

They do?

Lets see here:

http://www.ncrlc.com...al_warming.html
http://www.oikoumene...on-world-e.html
http://www.enterpris...-global-warming
http://news.bbc.co.u...ure/7287484.stm
http://www.boston.co...for_glob_1.html
http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/10483
http://www.guardian....licism.religion

big deal, it changed nothing.

[aquatus1]

Siara, on 05 November 2009 - 09:16 PM, said:

What if the US continued to ignore climate change and went on with 80's style pollution growth? Would it lead to a world war eventually? I'm just trying to imagine what would happen politically. Things would probably start with sanctions in the UN which (as usual) would have no impact. Then there would be embargoes and boycotts. But it would be difficult to enforce those given the American military.

Can you clarify what the sanctions, embargoes, and boycotts would be for? Who would be doing them to whom, and for which demands?

[Siara]

aquatus1, on 05 November 2009 - 09:39 PM, said:

Can you clarify what the sanctions, embargoes, and boycotts would be for? Who would be doing them to whom, and for which demands?

Well, don't you think there would be a "change your policies or we won't give you any more oil" reaction?

[mcrom901]

there you have it...

Quote

The billon-ton cloud was blown into space by departing sunspot 1029 on Oct. 31st. Normally, CMEs take only two or three days to reach Earth, but during the deep solar minimum of 2008-2009, the clouds have slowed to a veritable crawl. Crossing the sun-Earth divide now requires about five days, so an Oct. 31st CME should arrive on Nov. 5th. Because the blast was not squarely Earth-directed, the sluggish CME will deliver at most a glancing blow. NOAA forecasters estimate a 5% chance of strong geomagnetic storms around Earth's poles.

http://www.spaceweather.com/

This post has been edited by mcrom901: 05 November 2009 - 09:44 PM

[aquatus1]

Siara, on 05 November 2009 - 09:42 PM, said:

Well, don't you think there would be a "change your policies or we won't give you any more oil" reaction?

But the assumption of the OP is that there isn't a change of policies. That we remain at 80's level of pollution. Or is the assumption just that the U.S. will do so?

If that's the case...I'm not entirely sure other countries would care enough about the matter to have taken a lead in it. Possibly today, 20 to 30 years later, they may be talking about it, but I suspect the effects of pollution would be far clearer than they were before. Whether we would be able to do anything about it would be a graver matter.

But no, I don't think that other countries would try to sanction the U.S.

[questionmark]

aquatus1, on 05 November 2009 - 11:50 PM, said:

But the assumption of the OP is that there isn't a change of policies. That we remain at 80's level of pollution. Or is the assumption just that the U.S. will do so?

If that's the case...I'm not entirely sure other countries would care enough about the matter to have taken a lead in it. Possibly today, 20 to 30 years later, they may be talking about it, but I suspect the effects of pollution would be far clearer than they were before. Whether we would be able to do anything about it would be a graver matter.

But no, I don't think that other countries would try to sanction the U.S.

To the contrary of you I would not be surprised...but at that time it will be too late anyway.

[BlueZone]

aquatus1, on 05 November 2009 - 04:50 PM, said:

But no, I don't think that other countries would try to sanction the U.S.

I don't think things would divide along national lines since big businesses are international now. There would be a decision between people who were making such good profits that they could afford to escape the results of climate change and the other people (the masses) who would suffer from the consequences while not earning much.

[questionmark]

BlueZone, on 05 November 2009 - 11:58 PM, said:

I don't think things would divide along national lines since big businesses are international now. There would be a decision between people who were making such good profits that they could afford to escape the results of climate change and the other people (the masses) who would suffer from the consequences while not earning much.

Nobody escapes climate change... big business will only learn that one cannot eat money...and sincerely, their abilities for survival are pretty low.