[aquatus1]

Irishman, on 07 November 2009 - 06:17 AM, said:

That slogan was and still is the slogan of the Enlightened peoples organisation whose intent is to erase any mention of metaphysical and morph into a world where only science can provide explanations for our questions.

Pardon me if I don't take your word for it. Frankly, you sound a little bitter.

The only "Enlightened" people I'm aware of are quite into the metaphysical. By it's nature, being Enlightened is a spiritual pursuit. This does not preclude them being skeptics, but it most certainly does not allow for them being close-minded. And it has little to do with science.

Skepticism has less to do with science than it does with formal logic. If you believe that skepticism is some sort of personal philosophy that has some sort of defined mission such as eradication any sort of belief system, you are falling victim to your own accusations.

[Irishman]

aquatus1, on 07 November 2009 - 01:22 PM, said:

Pardon me if I don't take your word for it. Frankly, you sound a little bitter.

The only "Enlightened" people I'm aware of are quite into the metaphysical. By it's nature, being Enlightened is a spiritual pursuit. This does not preclude them being skeptics, but it most certainly does not allow for them being close-minded. And it has little to do with science.

Skepticism has less to do with science than it does with formal logic. If you believe that skepticism is some sort of personal philosophy that has some sort of defined mission such as eradication any sort of belief system, you are falling victim to your own accusations.

The enlightened peoples outlook was a self dubbed name given to the secular ethos, whilst never an official title it was one they bestowed upon themselves in this 20th century movement. This ethos is now taught in schools, colleges and all other academic platforms as fact, when it absolutely is not at least not any more verifiable than devine worship.

For the record, i dont go to church, i have no affiliation to any religion, in fact i would quite agree that church has done spirituality quite a bit of damage over the years and is an easy target for any skeptic.

Formal logic is quite a loose term however. Formal logic would dictate that many scientific fruitless pursuits are waste of time and money however no-one dare question scientific direction for fear of intellectual reprimand.

I am absolutely not bitter but science's denigration of metaphysics is a mixture of predjudice, ego, some relevant points and deliberately perpetuated myth.

[Paranormalcy]

It's not a denigration, it's revealing that there is no valid proof of metaphysical claims, with our current sciences and understanding of the world and how things work, and burden of proof is on extraordinary claims, not established and accepted facts. There is no "agenda" other than intellectual honesty and educating others on our current knowledge of what is "real", what has been discovered, and that for which no evidential proof exists.

[aquatus1]

Irishman, on 07 November 2009 - 09:23 PM, said:

The enlightened peoples outlook was a self dubbed name given to the secular ethos, whilst never an official title it was one they bestowed upon themselves in this 20th century movement. This ethos is now taught in schools, colleges and all other academic platforms as fact, when it absolutely is not at least not any more verifiable than devine worship.

This sounds like a rather long version of "This I Believe!"

I can do it too: "You are wrong!"

But that doesn't get us too far into a discussion.

Quote

For the record, i dont go to church, i have no affiliation to any religion, in fact i would quite agree that church has done spirituality quite a bit of damage over the years and is an easy target for any skeptic.

I would have to disagree. Spirituality is pretty much the only field that I would give the church credit for having done some good.

Anything else...not so much.

Quote

Formal logic is quite a loose term however. Formal logic would dictate that many scientific fruitless pursuits are waste of time and money however no-one dare question scientific direction for fear of intellectual reprimand.

Formal Logic is a loose term?

That's a little bit like saying that Trigonometry is a loose term. Sure, it may not describe any one single equation or term, but it is a pretty well defined field, with clear equations and methodology. I can't imagine how you can defend that it isn't a pretty specific field, or how you conclude that Formal Logic would dictate anything. After all, Formal Logic has nothing to do with determining how accurate something is.

Quote

I am absolutely not bitter but science's denigration of metaphysics is a mixture of predjudice, ego, some relevant points and deliberately perpetuated myth.

It does sound like you are taking it personally. Three times so far you have defined things in manners that have little to nothing to do with the actual thing. You sound like someone trying to bad-mouth someone you don't like, without ever actually having met them.

[sinewave]

Irishman, on 07 November 2009 - 12:17 AM, said:

That slogan was and still is the slogan of the Enlightened peoples organisation whose intent is to erase any mention of metaphysical and morph into a world where only science can provide explanations for our questions.

I think you are confusing skepticism with cynicism. While they both may disagree with you, skeptics seek the truth through logic while cynics know it through intuition. Despite years of effort, metaphysics has not garnered any credibility. The absence of supporting evidence is not the fault of science but rather the fault of nature.

This post has been edited by sinewave: 09 November 2009 - 04:03 PM

[candyreddime]

6 minutes of video? And you expect to capture something? Real investigations take hours on end

[sinewave]

candyreddime, on 11 November 2009 - 12:23 PM, said:

6 minutes of video? And you expect to capture something? Real investigations take hours on end

Heck, even pretend investigators do that.

[behaviour???]

i became a skeptic is because not it is easy but I think that science only can show if ghosts are there and as long as science is unable to answer on that matter I think it is highly unreliable to support Ghosts , just like Creationism...They have no Scientific base whatsoever
Thanks
B???

[Graveyard Hound]

I perfer to keep an open mind as to matters of the paranormal. Just because it can't be proved ot disproved either, one should not rule it out completeiy as true or false. I have seen some odd things that I can't explain butt just because I can't explain them didn't mean they didn't exist, I did witnesses them,based on my senses, but will hold off judgement until some better judgement come along.

[sinewave]

Graveyard Hound, on 12 November 2009 - 12:44 PM, said:

I perfer to keep an open mind as to matters of the paranormal. Just because it can't be proved ot disproved either, one should not rule it out completeiy as true or false. I have seen some odd things that I can't explain butt just because I can't explain them didn't mean they didn't exist, I did witnesses them,based on my senses, but will hold off judgement until some better judgement come along.

That is perfectly consistent with being a skeptic. Mundane explanations are always considered first with consideration given to established science in all cases.