[Fluffybunny]

conspiracybeliever, on 06 November 2009 - 01:31 PM, said:

Maybe the suicide theory would be more believable if you at least added that he hated this country or this war or the murdering enough to die for his beliefs. The man was a psychiatrist. I think that should tell us how much psychiatry is worth. Psychiatry when used for government purposes is nothing but another way to convince the masses of whatever the government wants the masses to believe. The man wanted out. Instead of listening to him they tried to use force. He fought back and this is what happened.

So because the psychiatrist was mentally ill, psychiatry cant work? What? Does that logic follow that if a doctor gets cancer, or diabetes, or has a heart attack that medicine has failed as well? Kind of silly don't you think?

No, I think it just falls back on an individual.

An individual that did not want to go overseas and was incredibly troubled by the idea of it. Who knows what was going on beforehand. Who knows what kind of issues he had? he was reportedly horrified by the words of the soldiers he had been helping(or trying to help), and wanted no part of going over. How much of that is religion or mental illness is yet to be seen. That is why I am waiting to find out what comes out of the investigation before I hop on the bandwagon of conspiracies; that thing has wobbly wheels.

You REALLY need to look up the definition of psychiatry. You are way off on that one. Actually Aquatus has done it for you. Having actually been in combat, and having a son who just got back from Iraq 2 months ago after a year in Baghdad, I can assure you, the people helping soldiers deal with the horrors they dealt with are very much necessary, and helpful. YOU seem to not have any experience of it, and dismiss it with a wave of hand, but for those of us who had need of it, it was helpful for a very difficult time in our lives.

[preacherman76]

Count me out of this one. Not saying it certainly isnt possible, but there just isnt enough info to draw such a conclution.

Planned or not though, this will be used for propaganda

[Rock Slinger]

Seemed to me the media is acting stupid like they couldn't figure out for the life of themselves what could possible be the motive, duh?

How about he is a convert islamic muslim jihadist who attacked us in the name of Allah! Shot by a woman no less, ha ha ha.

This post has been edited by Rock Slinger: 06 November 2009 - 11:07 PM

[Ufo Believer]

He was in the Military for sometime now. Hell, he's a Major. He was proud of his country (America). He was a muslim when he was born in VA.

[Ryinrea]

Ufo Believer, on 06 November 2009 - 05:25 PM, said:

He was in the Military for sometime now. Hell, he's a Major. He was proud of his country (America). He was a muslim when he was born in VA.

Thank you, for that.

This post has been edited by Ryinrea: 06 November 2009 - 11:57 PM

[Rock Slinger]

When he started shooting and yelling jihadist things it becomes clear he became a jihadist. Very sad. I am speculating but maybe it is as simple as he converted himself to anti-American extremist for whatever reason. Anyone who does something like this is mentally ill. Some are just recognized as loyal jihadists others are on their own.

This post has been edited by Rock Slinger: 07 November 2009 - 12:19 AM

[Cadetak]

Rock Slinger, on 06 November 2009 - 07:17 PM, said:

When he started shooting and yelling jihadist things it becomes clear he became a jihadist. Very sad. I am speculating but maybe it is as simple as he converted himself to anti-American extremist for whatever reason. Anyone who does something like this is mentally ill. Some are just recognized as loyal jihadists others are on their own.

If the reports are indeed accurate he shouted "Allahu Akbar!" meaning 'Allah is the Greatest'. You can go ahead and jump to conclusions on that if you want but it doesn't mean he was a jihadist.

Consider other reports that describe him as not being able to speak Arabic very well, the fact that he is a career doctor and military man, Born in Virginia, and he and his family have bin reported to be favorable of America by numerous people.

Also take into account that nature of his work had him caring for soldiers returning from the war and hearing all their horror stories and that he feared being deployed to Afghanistan.

What you have here is pure speculation based around the generalization that because he was muslim it was a religious inspired terrorist attack when in actually the motivations are currently unknown.

[MID]

Fluffybunny, on 06 November 2009 - 01:41 PM, said:

Good grief. Has anyone here who believes this, spent any time studying suicides? murder suicides? situations like this have happened before, and yes people can try to take as many people with them as they can before they are stopped...by their own bullet or a police officers.

Or is it just more fun to jump on the CT bandwagon before the ink is even dry and you even know what happened? You guys are jumping to the furthest extreme of logic based on no evidence(the 7-11 video? never studied psychology have you? Never dealt with suicidal people, have you? I have, a lot...when they are at their worst... That video proves nothing and people preparing to kill themselves aren't always sad...very often just the opposite), trying to make this into something it isn't.

Thank you Fluff, for you rationality and...

...your experienced view of these things.

Christ almighty...I wish people could just mellow a little. We have no idea at all what hppened here, save that someone went nuts with a gun...or two. The shooter is on a respirator, which would seem to indicate that he's not capable of breathing on his own..generally not a good sign generally.

If he ever gets off of the thing, we'll find out what happened with him.

Right now, alot of families could use our thoughts and prayers. Anything other than that is a waste of time and energy.

[Shush_rules]

Rock Slinger, on 07 November 2009 - 10:17 AM, said:

When he started shooting and yelling jihadist things it becomes clear he became a jihadist. Very sad. I am speculating but maybe it is as simple as he converted himself to anti-American extremist for whatever reason. Anyone who does something like this is mentally ill. Some are just recognized as loyal jihadists others are on their own.

Both your comments are the stupidest ones in this thread. What a sad sad place your mind automatically went to, more then likely he just freaked out about going to Afghanistan, and snapped. Or maybe he really was a set up. But from what people have written and other sources talking about him, the most unfavorable option is that he was a "jihadist".

[Rock Slinger]

One way or the other he got into a state where he attacked and killed as many American soldiers as he could. I am sorry that I jumped to the least palatable scenario, not becuase he was a muslim but because he acted like a jihadist extremist, big difference. If he just went nuts it seems an odd way to act out I would think. But what do I know. Anyway I will step back and wait until more information is confirmed before I say anything else. I am sorry for my tone above also. It is nothing to ha ha about.

Edited to clarify

This post has been edited by Rock Slinger: 07 November 2009 - 05:38 AM

[Shush_rules]

Rock Slinger, on 07 November 2009 - 03:01 PM, said:

One way or the other he got into a state where he attacked and killed as many American soldiers as he could. I am sorry that I jumped to the least palatable scenario, not becuase he was a muslim but because he acted like a jihadist extremist, big difference. If he just went nuts it seems an odd way to act out I would think. But what do I know. Anyway I will step back and wait until more information is confirmed before I say anything else. I am sorry for my tone above also. It is nothing to ha ha about.

Edited to clarify

Doesn't that happen occasionally ? When an American soldier snaps and shoots his comrades? Wasn't there a case not too long ago of that happening? Was that person a jihadist extremist as well? Oh what, he wasn't? Because of his religious views.

[Br Cornelius]

Shush_rules, on 07 November 2009 - 07:07 AM, said:

Doesn't that happen occasionally ? When an American soldier snaps and shoots his comrades? Wasn't there a case not too long ago of that happening? Was that person a jihadist extremist as well? Oh what, he wasn't? Because of his religious views.

Maybe he just understood that the Americans were engaged in a criminal war and that he was about to become part of it. Been a Muslim, criminally attacking his fellow Muslims would have created a huge conflict of interests within his mind, a no win mental loop. This sort of thing is more than enough to trigger a psychotic incident. The same sort of thing happens to wealthy business men wh olose everything and go crazy and shoot their families, the conflict of accepting your life has been a failure is enough to convince you that there can be no future life.

The stories we tell ourselves are powerful triggers for external behaviour.

Br Cornelius

[frenat]

Ufo Believer, on 06 November 2009 - 05:25 PM, said:

He was in the Military for sometime now. Hell, he's a Major. He was proud of his country (America). He was a muslim when he was born in VA.

Not as long as you might think. Because he is a doctor he started out as a Captain. I think I read somewhere that he had been in for about 5 years. Still a decent amount of time but not as long as others that have worked their way up to Major.

[Ryinrea]

frenat, on 07 November 2009 - 06:34 AM, said:

Not as long as you might think. Because he is a doctor he started out as a Captain. I think I read somewhere that he had been in for about 5 years. Still a decent amount of time but not as long as others that have worked their way up to Major.

17 Years

[frenat]

Ryinrea, on 07 November 2009 - 07:34 PM, said:

17 Years

Are you saying he had been in 17 years? From what I've found, 17 years looks close for his total time in service (it could be as much as 20). He had 8 years enlisted service and graduated from Virginia Tech in 1997. He could have gotten a commision right after that for a total of 20 years. 16-17 looks right though. What I've found indicates just one previous assignment (as an officer) of six years at Walter Reed, which ended two years ago. He made Major in April of 2008 which looks to be about 7 years commisioned service (or 12 if he received his commission right after getting his Bachelor's). That seems slow compared to Air Force doctors but could be normal for Army.
http://cbs4denver.co....2.1295763.html
If you have a source that narrows it down better I'd appreciate it.

This post has been edited by frenat: 08 November 2009 - 02:08 AM