29 replies to this topic

[kmt_sesh]

questionmark, on 01 December 2009 - 12:06 AM, said:

I think your "long winded" OPs contribute a lot to the understanding of ancient Egypt.

And I have to give you this much, the only way we know that Sitchin's rantings are pure crap is reading his books (or at least one of them). And having read his drivel does not really bother me...what severely gets my gout is THAT I PAID FOR IT!

Thanks, questionmark. I appreciate that.

And don't feel too bad. I paid for it knowing full well what I was getting myself into. Okay, so it was only around four bucks, but still, it was painful. To be honest, as I've been reading The Stairway to Heaven, I haven't been too frustrated over Sitchin's bizarre conclusions. Mostly I shake my head and a few times I've laughed out loud.

I didn't find the book in the comedy section but I think that might be the best fit for it.

[TheSearcher]

questionmark, on 01 December 2009 - 12:06 AM, said:

I think your "long winded" OPs contribute a lot to the understanding of ancient Egypt.

And I have to give you this much, the only way we know that Sitchin's rantings are pure crap is reading his books (or at least one of them). And having read his drivel does not really bother me...what severely gets my gout is THAT I PAID FOR IT!

Erm QM, Kenny says he reads them for free online. Maybe ask him the url to the site. this way you won't pay for it no longer  

[Harte]

kmt_sesh, on 30 November 2009 - 11:51 PM, said:

I might be prepared to discuss VA-243 if I knew what it is. What in the hell is VA-243? Is it something Sitchin brings up in the book I'm reading?

VA 243 is the catalogue numbner of a specific cylinder seal Sitchin uses to claim that the Sumerians were aware of all the planets in our solar system.

You'll find it debunked at Heiser's site.

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Now stop saying that about Heiser! What are you trying to do, ruin my respect for the man? The material on his website is so well written and factually sound that I have a hard time picturing this guy pondering alien astronauts. Or is it more like the Mark Lehner thing, where he started out as a nut case and eventually saw the light?

I have no idea what the guy is up to these days.  But if you explore his site you'll find where he tells you about his Ancient Astronaut book.

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But bring 'em on, man! I've never been impressed by any of Sitchin's arguments and in fact find them simple to destroy, so I doubt his acolytes are going to do much better.

I'm with you there.  Sitchin, in my view, is nothing but a con artist, and not much of an artist at that.

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Thanks for your kind words, though. I only wish more people would respond, but I fear my long-winded OPs turn people off. To be honest I had rather hoped to start something of a firestorm, but it looks like my firestorm is little more than a fizzling match.

Thankfully, there have over the past few years been enough skeptics at this site to possibly ward off some of the more adamant believers.

If you want a crusade, use google.  You'll find plenty of places that you will be jeered off of if you post the same content there!

The front page of Heiser's site asks you you choose the blue pill or the red pill ala "The Matrix."

His use of that metaphorical machination is apt.  They really are like that.

Harte

[kmt_sesh]

TheSearcher, on 01 December 2009 - 08:54 AM, said:

Erm QM, Kenny says he reads them for free online. Maybe ask him the url to the site. this way you won't pay for it no longer  

I'm pretty sure Sitchin's website includes only excerpts or abbreviated forms of the books. Nope, I'm sorry, but if you want the full-on, mind-numbing, head-shaking, hair-pulling experience you'll simply have to fork over the cash.

[kmt_sesh]

Harte, on 01 December 2009 - 01:19 PM, said:

VA 243 is the catalogue numbner of a specific cylinder seal Sitchin uses to claim that the Sumerians were aware of all the planets in our solar system.

You'll find it debunked at Heiser's site.

It's been awhile since I've poured through Heiser's website. I'll have to check it again. I'm curious to see which museum VA 243 is in, if Heiser mentions it. It's not as though I could translate the seal if it has cuneiform on it because I am not trained in cuneiform. Come to think of it, neither is Sitchin. Heiser is, so I'd tend to trust his word on it.

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Thankfully, there have over the past few years been enough skeptics at this site to possibly ward off some of the more adamant believers.

Sadly some always seem to hold out and continue to bow to Sitchin. It's amazing how stubbornly misinformed some people want to be. It's not as though I'm pretending that my posts are going to change them, but I'm compelled to try to strike a balance and show why Sitchin cannot be trusted. If they choose to remain stubbornly misinformed, they're making that choice and I doubt anyone can help them.

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If you want a crusade, use google.  You'll find plenty of places that you will be jeered off of if you post the same content there!

The front page of Heiser's site asks you you choose the blue pill or the red pill ala "The Matrix."

His use of that metaphorical machination is apt.  They really are like that.

Harte

Oh, please, one alternative-history forum is enough for me. I can't help it if these people swallow the pill that keeps them intellectually stunted, but I'm not up to the challenge of trying to save the world, anyway. I'll leave that up to folks like Neo...and Heiser.

[questionmark]

kmt_sesh, on 01 December 2009 - 09:43 PM, said:

It's been awhile since I've poured through Heiser's website.

It is in the British museum. So far I have only seen pictures of it.

[TheSearcher]

kmt_sesh, on 01 December 2009 - 09:43 PM, said:

....It's amazing how stubbornly misinformed some people want to be. It's not as though I'm pretending that my posts are going to change them, but I'm compelled to try to strike a balance and show why Sitchin cannot be trusted. If they choose to remain stubbornly misinformed, they're making that choice and I doubt anyone can help them.
...

Those are important words, they choose to be so misinformed.  It's not even a question of being proven wrong or not, it's a question of rejecting reality and superimposing their own. Not really rational if you ask me.

Oh and you're correct about the online books, they are excerpts of what certain people call the most important stuff in the books. I give for example the following site I found in a thread here in UM. Link to the myth books. It's actually pretty incomplete.

[kmt_sesh]

TheSearcher, on 02 December 2009 - 08:03 AM, said:

Those are important words, they choose to be so misinformed.  It's not even a question of being proven wrong or not, it's a question of rejecting reality and superimposing their own. Not really rational if you ask me.

Oh and you're correct about the online books, they are excerpts of what certain people call the most important stuff in the books. I give for example the following site I found in a thread here in UM. Link to the myth books. It's actually pretty incomplete.

Ahhhh! A link to Sitchin's website in my own thread! Now I feel so dirty.

Just kidding. There's only so much Sitchin I can take at any one time, and right now The Stairway to Heaven is more than enough. I'm reading it in bits and pieces so as not to consume too much valuable reading time for worthwhile material.

But as to what you said, what truly bothers me is not really that people read Sitchin, and perhaps not even that they might find him compelling. No, what bothers me are the people who become Sitchinites in a very obtuse and close-minded way, and won't even bother to read legitimate historical research to see where Sitchin gets his ideas from. There is a great deal of truth in your phrase "rejecting reality," and it's sad that such people allow themselves to be so intellectually myopic. They don't even try.

[Erowin]

I agree! Most fringe authors point out one isolated incident that seems odd. They then think this means some fantastic conclusion. They never stop to look at the big picture. Thats what history is, looking at the situation as a whole to find out why people did that they did. And what things might influence them to do so. The artifacts themselves do not tell Historians much. Where the object is found is what gives them all the information. Did that make any sense? I'm tried.  

[kmt_sesh]

Erowin, on 03 December 2009 - 03:08 AM, said:

I agree! Most fringe authors point out one isolated incident that seems odd. They then think this means some fantastic conclusion. They never stop to look at the big picture. Thats what history is, looking at the situation as a whole to find out why people did that they did. And what things might influence them to do so. The artifacts themselves do not tell Historians much. Where the object is found is what gives them all the information. Did that make any sense? I'm tried.  

A very excellent point, Erowin! That's something I always try to drive home, so I couldn't agree more. And it's not just with artifacts but with an entire monument, also. If proper context is not observed, the conclusions that follow are not reliable. Fringe writers delight in pulling things out of context and twisting the reality behind them. "Looking at the situation as a whole" is terrific advise for any and every reader.

[ShadowSot]

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Thanks for your kind words, though. I only wish more people would respond, but I fear my long-winded OPs turn people off. To be honest I had rather hoped to start something of a firestorm, but it looks like my firestorm is little more than a fizzling match.

Hanslune and Harte could testify if you'd like that, there are one or two other forums on the internet that could provide it.

[TheSearcher]

ShadowSot, on 03 December 2009 - 03:28 AM, said:

Hanslune and Harte could testify if you'd like that, there are one or two other forums on the internet that could provide it.

The question is, do we really want a firestorm in the first place, I find myself rather enjoying the "fizzling" only discussion  

[digitalartist]

kmt_sesh, on 01 December 2009 - 09:43 PM, said:

Sadly some always seem to hold out and continue to bow to Sitchin. It's amazing how stubbornly misinformed some people want to be. It's not as though I'm pretending that my posts are going to change them, but I'm compelled to try to strike a balance and show why Sitchin cannot be trusted. If they choose to remain stubbornly misinformed, they're making that choice and I doubt anyone can help them.

You and those like you do a great service here to anyone that comes to read what is written.  Without posters like you, all that is left is the misinformation.  You keep this place from becoming a breeding ground for more Sitchinite's.

[kmt_sesh]

digitalartist, on 03 December 2009 - 08:12 PM, said:

You and those like you do a great service here to anyone that comes to read what is written.  Without posters like you, all that is left is the misinformation.  You keep this place from becoming a breeding ground for more Sitchinite's.

Thanks, digitalartist. All I try to do is balance the equation. When fringe spin is presented, I attempt to show where and why its conclusions are erroneous. I cannot make anyone see reason, however. It is up to the Sitchinites to open their eyes and dig deeper, in order to discover the facts for themselves. People such as I are just handing them a shovel to start clearing away the crap.

[kmt_sesh]

ShadowSot, on 03 December 2009 - 03:28 AM, said:

Hanslune and Harte could testify if you'd like that, there are one or two other forums on the internet that could provide it.

So Harte has told me. I rather doubt Sitchin devotees at other forums could convince me of his material any more than fans of Sitchin here can do, but the simple truth is, one alternative-history forum is more than enough for me. UM fits that niche for me.