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D-Day Veterans Return to France


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#31    joc

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 05:46 PM


QUOTE
QUOTE
I think many of you misunderstand him and judge him to be something he is not: a war-monger, an idiot, a 'cowboy'. I think some hate him because he is a Christian. I think some hate him because they are completely inundated with the leftist media and don't take the time to think for themselves. I think some hate him because they hate America.


Why do you hate Bush?




QUOTE
Well i do watch the news, read newspapers.

I read about mistakes he makes in speeches.


I think many of you misunderstand him and judge him to be something he is not: a war-monger, an idiot, a 'cowboy'.


I would say you misunderstand him and you are inundated with biased leftist media.   Because he doesn't know the name of the President of the most important nation on earth...Chechneya...he shouldn't be prez?    

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#32    Lottie

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 06:10 PM

Whoa! This was a thread to let people know about D Day not a thread for a slanging match..crikey I can't turn my back for two minutes. original.gif  


#33    Aslan

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 06:12 PM

I would enjoy saying back to topic here, but since that would appear to mean back to hurling insults back and forth about WWII, I'll content myself with saying this:

This thread, as I understand it, was started to honour those who died on D-Day. I have no personal problem with people saying that D-Day was the turning point of the war, even if it wasn't. Attacking each other over the precise value of their actions - whatever they may have been - does not come under my definition of 'honour'.

Neither does fighting about the ubiquitous George W. Bush. Whatever feelings this man may engender, it is all very inappropriate in this thread.

A thread, which, I might add, is on the brink of being locked.


#34    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 06:13 PM

agreed aslan "edited"


Edited by wunarmdscissor, 05 June 2004 - 06:14 PM.

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#35    joc

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 06:41 PM

salutes flag and considers the many sacrifices of the countless millions who helped keep us all free

Sorry Lottie.......... wub.gif

sorry Aslan

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#36    Fenris

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 08:20 PM

QUOTE (wunarmdscissor @ Jun 5 2004, 03:57 PM)
I agree an disagree fenris.

Its all about the stars and stripes and especially the Union Jack.

The union jack was a symbol of freedom, for 2 years we stood alone and it was exactly the Union Jack that represented not only The UK but the free world as a whole and our fight against fascism.

I totaly disagree, but understand where your comming from.....

However the symbolism of the flags has been hijacked by both sets of current politicians and tainted by  events that have happened since. Plus focusing on them disregards the many from other countrys who made the sacrifice and deserve the same respect..... it wasn't just the UK and USA fighting that war.

Just saying that it represents them doesn't make it so.... especialy in the current climate where neither 'flag' is that particularly well respected nor welcome.

Leave the jingoism out of it and if you need something to focus on, focus on the surviors and give them the respect they deserve as they remember their fallen commerades.

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
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#37    Talon

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 10:33 PM

QUOTE
A thread, which, I might add, is on the brink of being locked.


I really don't want to get this thread locked, but I have to defend myself. I'd consider sending a p2p, however that would not defend me against anyone barring one person.


QUOTE
You know just because your at uni doesnt make you the most informed and intelligent person on the face of the planet.


QUOTE
You came in telling us all how we dont have a clue what we're talking about and you ofcourse the most intelligent person around was going to educate us.


Öbut not once have I said I was smarter than Newton, Einstein or Hawking?  tongue.gif  rolleyes.gif btw, thats a joke


QUOTE
You know what makes me sick lol your constant "ding dong im so intelligent ive got a degree you know, i got a Credit 1 BA mark on an essay on Stalingrad, and my last subject in University was Hitler's Foriegn Policy, I think I'm in a far better possition to know about WW2 " attiitude. LOL LOL LOL.


Take it up with Dr Ben Shepard, room W105. 'constant'?


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I am well aware the at battles such as the Kursk they were involved in some of the most momentous battles During the war.



Actually Kursk was pretty one sided as the USSR knew two months in advance that the Germanís planned to attack there.


QUOTE
I believe im well enough informed to pay my respects to the brave men who died so you can be as pompous as you want.


Again, youíre the one insulting people, as for pompous, I simply stated that Stalingrad was the turning point and that D-Day was only successful because 35/40 of the German divisions were bogged down in the East. You then attacked me. sad.gif

QUOTE
....and I reflected on the Russians who died as a result of defeating Hitler as well as the American and British sacrifices....and it made me think...

....We are all brothers in arms....we should all put our ideological differences aside and through our collective brilliance....make sure that another Hitler doesn't rise out of the Sea of Politics. Maybe Saddam wasn't Hitler...maybe he was worse...none the less....There are many who want our heads on a platter and we must be diligent and remain united in a common effort to defeat any and all who threaten our shores....your shores, my shores....Our Shores...


That was very nice  crying.gif


QUOTE
The union jack was a symbol of freedom, for 2 years we stood alone and it was exactly the Union Jack that represented not only The UK but the free world as a whole and our fight against fascism.


Actually the UK didnít stand alone, it had the entire empire on itís side, as well as other nations such as Yugoslavia and Greece joined usÖ and were promptly occupiedÖ but at least they tried. We also had volunteer divisions such as the Free-French and Polish. We should also remember in this time the resistance movements, some of which were involved Operation Bodyguard.


Btw, for anyone else who questions my motives, my mother lost several relatives at Normandy. Now I donít know their names or ranks, because she was born way after and only name she can remember is her uncle John, who died at Dunkirk. My grandfather on my motherís side was in the shipyards and probably had some hand in at least one of the ships involved in the campaign, and my grandfather on my dadís side had a foot disability but enlisted in the home guard!
So I have respect, and my family has shed blood for your rights to argue one point as much as mine. However, that does not mean that I am so arrogant that Iím going to claim you have to have been on that beech to be a hero.

Therefore, I with finish as I began, hopefully without being blasted this time. All I'm asking for is that when they call the two minute silence tomorrow, its not just those individuals who stormed the beeches we think of that day, but also; the African Allies and our troops who fought in North Africa and drove the Germans back to Europe so that we could focus our manpower on opening a second front; the Allied Navel ships whose continual victory against the U-boats after May 1943 allowed our invasion fleet to be safe and well supplied on its journey and thereafter; and the soldiers on the Eastern Front whose victories meant that at in France we were only faced with 5 divisions rather than 40, buying us time to dig in and get a defensive grid set up, as opposed to being pushed straight back into the sea.

I don't think that's much to ask, as its the sacrifices one makes which should determine whether one is a hero and whether we 'owe them everything' as opposed to whether they were present at a single battle.


"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#38    Permakid

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 10:46 PM

QUOTE (Talon S. @ Jun 5 2004, 03:33 PM)
All I'm asking for is that when they call the two minute silence tomorrow, its not just those individuals who stormed the beeches we think of that day, but also; the African Allies and our troops who fought in North Africa and drove the Germans back to Europe so that we could focus our manpower on opening a second front; the Allied Navel ships whose continual victory against the U-boats after May 1943 allowed our invasion fleet to be safe and well supplied on its journey and thereafter; and the soldiers on the Eastern Front whose victories meant that at in France we were only faced with 5 divisions rather than 40, buying us time to dig in and get a defensive grid set up, as opposed to being pushed straight back into the sea.

I don't think that's much to ask, as its the sacrifices one makes which should determine whether one is a hero and whether we 'owe them everything' as opposed to whether they were present at a single battle.

I agree 100%.  Also, don't forget those who fought in the Pacific theater.  Thousands of men gave their lives for us there as well.  My grandfather was at Iwo Jima - one of the bloodiest battles of the war.

Edited by Permakid, 05 June 2004 - 10:48 PM.

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#39    Dementia

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE
Its all about the stars and stripes and especially the Union Jack.

The union jack was a symbol of freedom, for 2 years we stood alone and it was exactly the Union Jack that represented not only The UK but the free world as a whole and our fight against fascism.


Umm..i found that statement kind of pompous and offensive. To say the union jack represented not only the uk but the free world would be half truth. Most of the free world was a part of the British empire and even if they wished not too fight, they were forced too just because of that very fact. A thing which has been debated a thousand times, maybe WW2 would never had happened if Europe( predominantly england and france) did not follow the policy of appeasement. The allies only responded to poland's attack not because it mattered to them, but more so cause germany was getting way too aggressive for them to remain quite. Maybe this would explain the period of no war or phony war right after hostilites were declared. Better yet, If germany had not attacked Ussr at that time, the world might have been totally different from what it is today. Like it or not Stalingard was and will remain the turning point for the whole war.

Though it might seem im trying to prove a point or supporting a point already stated by someone else, the only thing which D-Day should be remembered is the sacrifice made by millions irrespective of the nationality they belonged too, to end a regime which would have destroyed humanity as a whole.

Again, im just stating my personal view...


#40    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 06 June 2004 - 11:23 AM

yeah dementia i do agree with you.

I didnt mean what you think though.

I do understand teh Union Jack also represents a vision of imperialism as well.

I was only saying that it was under the Union jack at that time the loudest , not necessarily biggest, resistance to nazi germany there was.

The union flag did REPRESENT the entire Empire , and the rights and wrongs of the empire are for another thread lol.

HOwever i do accept your point....

BTW talon.....

QUOTE
All I'm asking for is that when they call the two minute silence tomorrow, its not just those individuals who stormed the beeches we think of that day, but also; the African Allies and our troops who fought in North Africa and drove the Germans back to Europe so that we could focus our manpower on opening a second front; the Allied Navel ships whose continual victory against the U-boats after May 1943 allowed our invasion fleet to be safe and well supplied on its journey and thereafter; and the soldiers on the Eastern Front whose victories meant that at in France we were only faced with 5 divisions rather than 40, buying us time to dig in and get a defensive grid set up, as opposed to being pushed straight back into the sea.

I don't think that's much to ask, as its the sacrifices one makes which should determine whether one is a hero and whether we 'owe them everything' as opposed to whether they were present at a single battle.



Its called rememberance sunday.

Thats the day where we remember all fallen soldiers.

Edited by wunarmdscissor, 06 June 2004 - 11:24 AM.

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#41    Talon

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Posted 06 June 2004 - 11:53 PM

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Its called rememberance sunday.

Thats the day where we remember all fallen soldiers.


No, that's in November and marks the death of all soldiers killed in WW2.

I'm talking about the 2 minute silence that happened at 11 am this morning in honor of D-Day. Found it very disrespectful though that some people at my part-time job kept on shopping during it... although maybe it was more disrespectful that I didn't turn up until 12  huh.gif  

Edited by Talon S., 06 June 2004 - 11:58 PM.

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#42    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 01:39 PM

Ok talon

So what stopped on the 11th Hour, on the 11th day of the 11th month?

I think you'll find thats why rememberance sunday is in november and why its the closest sunday to that date.

Thats when WW1 ended.

Thats when we remember ALL soldiers.

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#43    Talon

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 01:48 PM

True, and WW2 in Europe ended in May, and Japan in August. I admit you got on a typo. rolleyes.gif But I still don't get how that affected D-Day yesterday

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#44    Stamford

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 02:00 PM

I asume I am not alone in thinking that this thread is now verging on the offensive.

Maybe all parties concerned should take a moment to think that while you continue to parry back and forth, 60 years ago today they were still clearing up the bodies of young men off the beaches of Normandy.

Whilst you have the opportunity to waste valuable time arguing the toss, these brave men were not given the opportunity.

They paid the ultimate price to enable you to debate such things, I personally think that you are abusing that right in a highly offensive manner (this is not directed at anyone in particular).

If the mods are reading this, I would appeal to them to lock this one down as soon as possible.

Peace.

Edited by Stamford, 07 June 2004 - 02:01 PM.

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#45    Talon

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 02:01 PM

Yes, and I had two reletives among them, thankyou

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato




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