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A coming civil war in the US?


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#166    WoIverine

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 10:13 PM

View Postninjadude, on 30 December 2009 - 08:22 PM, said:

LOL. Exactly how would that happen?

Isn't really that hard to imagine. A near global ELE, complete economic crash, etc. Wouldn't be that hard for a  charismatic leader to capitalize on something like that and sucker other leaders as well as individuals into a global union of some sort. We already have an EU. If Dubya could rally a somewhat 80%+ approval rating in the states during 9/11 by using it as an advantage, imagine what someone a lot brighter may be capable of...

Edited by SpiderCyde, 30 December 2009 - 10:16 PM.


#167    Brakzar Break

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 10:18 PM

Yeah, I don't think there's going to be another Civil War in the near future.  :unsure2:

I hope not, though.

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#168    Brakzar Break

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 10:19 PM

View PostSpiderCyde, on 30 December 2009 - 10:13 PM, said:

Isn't really that hard to imagine. A near global ELE, complete economic crash, etc. Wouldn't be that hard for a  charismatic leader to capitalize on something like that and sucker other leaders as well as individuals into a global union of some sort. We already have an EU. If Dubya could rally a somewhat 80%+ approval rating in the states during 9/11 by using it as an advantage, imagine what someone a lot brighter may be capable of...


Ticket to World War III, anyone?

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#169    KennyB

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 11:49 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 30 December 2009 - 08:25 PM, said:

Obviously you have missed something if you think Germany would have won WWII.  Russia would have defeated Germany and Russian liberation is the same as Russian occupation.  Can you not see how that would have changed things?  As far as WWI goes, it is doubtful that we would have begun trading with Germany any time soon after they defeated our allies.

We had American companies trading with Germany all thru WW2. Why would they have not continued to do so even if Germany won the war?  KennyB


#170    MID

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 12:33 AM

View PostSpiderCyde, on 30 December 2009 - 02:45 PM, said:

Ah, I meant we could possibly be part of an "American Union" or whatnot by then, something that supercedes or invalidates the Constitution's 4-8 year term limits.


The Constitution limits a President to two-four year terms.

I wouldn't be too worried about an American Union (which implies the destruction of the United States as a sovereign nation) with Obama's crew.  

He's setting himself up for a Carter-esque single term as it is...


#171    KennyB

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 12:38 AM

View Postninjadude, on 30 December 2009 - 06:59 AM, said:

You mean of course, conservative or republican "people". Because they certainly trying to serve the rest of us. Which is kind of the point of elections. And before you say they should be serving all the people (and I agree), that's a bit tough when political parties are diametrically opposed in certain ideas.

Who is the 'rest of us'? The country is being destroyed for you as well as for me. If anybody is better off now than they were when Obama took power, I'd like to hear about it. Party be damned. Bush was a Republican and he brought all this on. KennyB


#172    KennyB

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 12:48 AM

View Postaquatus1, on 30 December 2009 - 07:43 PM, said:

That's true.  All we would have had to do was surrender Hawaii to the Japanese.

How long that would have avoided us entering the war is debatable.

No, it could have been a lot easier than that. All that would have been necessary is to send a radio message to the Japs, saying we were going to have naval 'war games' starting Dec 5, 1941, with land-based high altitude bombers, fighters, carriers, battleships, heavy cruisers and submarines. I should imagine Yamamoto would have had business elsewhere. I didn't say I didn't think we shouldn't defend ourselves. I said we ought not to start wars or get into them on account of other countries. KennyB


#173    KennyB

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 12:57 AM

View PostKennyB, on 30 December 2009 - 11:49 PM, said:

We had American companies trading with Germany all thru WW2. Why would they have not continued to do so even if Germany won the war?  KennyB

I don't think Germany could have defeated Russia during WW2 without us furnishing Stalin with equipment. Even if I'm wrong, what difference would it make to us? Russia won but still folded in the end.  KennyB


#174    KennyB

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 01:02 AM

View PostSpiderCyde, on 30 December 2009 - 10:13 PM, said:

Isn't really that hard to imagine. A near global ELE, complete economic crash, etc. Wouldn't be that hard for a  charismatic leader to capitalize on something like that and sucker other leaders as well as individuals into a global union of some sort. We already have an EU. If Dubya could rally a somewhat 80%+ approval rating in the states during 9/11 by using it as an advantage, imagine what someone a lot brighter may be capable of...

Dubya was a figurehead. There were people behind him pulling the strings who were a lot smarter than he.  KennyB


#175    aquatus1

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 01:12 AM

View PostKennyB, on 31 December 2009 - 12:48 AM, said:

No, it could have been a lot easier than that. All that would have been necessary is to send a radio message to the Japs, saying we were going to have naval 'war games' starting Dec 5, 1941, with land-based high altitude bombers, fighters, carriers, battleships, heavy cruisers and submarines. I should imagine Yamamoto would have had business elsewhere. I didn't say I didn't think we shouldn't defend ourselves. I said we ought not to start wars or get into them on account of other countries. KennyB
  
Yeah.  Asides from the whole assumption that we were in a position to verify any attack, sure.

That would have stopped them.  

The Japanese were known for backing away from a fight.

Way to judge character.


#176    Mommy

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 02:57 AM

View PostKennyB, on 30 December 2009 - 11:49 PM, said:

We had American companies trading with Germany all thru WW2. Why would they have not continued to do so even if Germany won the war?  KennyB

I was talking about WWI as far as trading goes and Germany would not have won WWII.


#177    FurthurBB

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 03:00 AM

View Postaquatus1, on 31 December 2009 - 01:12 AM, said:

Yeah.  Asides from the whole assumption that we were in a position to verify any attack, sure.

That would have stopped them.  

The Japanese were known for backing away from a fight.

Way to judge character.

It really makes me laugh to think that some people believe we ever entered a war for another country.


#178    KennyB

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 06:45 AM

View Postaquatus1, on 31 December 2009 - 01:12 AM, said:

Yeah.  Asides from the whole assumption that we were in a position to verify any attack, sure.

That would have stopped them.  

The Japanese were known for backing away from a fight.

Way to judge character.

The U.S. knew where those ships were from the time they left Japan.  They had plenty of time to get the captial ships lit off and ready. The carriers were already at sea. 12 submarines were setting in their pens, loaded and ready to go. They had a few B-17s and had more coming in. They had hundreds of P-40s on the ground, ready to go. They had plenty of time to get those ships out to sea. Ships have never won a battle against land-based bombers. Yamamoto knew that. If he came on, he would have lost his entire fleet before he even got in range to launch his planes. He would probably have gone to the Philipeens
and attacked Manila, that would have put us at war. But we would be in much better shape because we wouldn't have lost any ships at Pearl. That's what that traitor Roosevelt should have done. He just gave them the fleet at Pearle. He could have brought all the capital ships we had in the Atlantic thru the Panama Canal and threw them against the Japs, too. We could have defeated them in short order. Never had to use the A-bombs. We could have fire bombed them till there wasn't a stick of wood in the islands. Japan would never have attacked us with all that firepower facing them.
They would have had to withdraw from China and Korea and make peace with us so we'd raise the embargo. KennyB


#179    KennyB

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 06:56 AM

View PostFurthurBB, on 31 December 2009 - 03:00 AM, said:

It really makes me laugh to think that some people believe we ever entered a war for another country.

They would back away if they didn't think they had the edge. At Pearle, they didn't make another sortie because they didn't know where the carriers were. They would have backed off if we had sent that whole fleet from Pearle at them, especially with those land-based planes. If they didn't we'd have sunk them all. KennyB


#180    KennyB

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 07:00 AM

View PostKennyB, on 31 December 2009 - 06:56 AM, said:

They would back away if they didn't think they had the edge. At Pearle, they didn't make another sortie because they didn't know where the carriers were. They would have backed off if we had sent that whole fleet from Pearle at them, especially with those land-based planes. If they didn't we'd have sunk them all. KennyB

BB, If we didn't enter the Korean war and the Vietnam war for South Korea and South Vietnam, why did we enter them?  KennyB





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