Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Fenris Vs Falco: Theologys examined


  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

#16    Fenris

Fenris

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Joined:09 Mar 2004
  • Location:London, UK

  • most grimley fiendish wabbithunting elfieblush making member of the Six Worst Men of the Apfelschnaps.

Posted 10 June 2004 - 06:48 PM

Falco, no problems at all, I just found in the past that things run smoother with two MAIN participants and others adding bits from the sidelines, Chauncys contribution has been both welcome and constructive and I see no problem in continuing as we have been.

As for whatever was deleted, as I understand the term a Pantheist believes all gods are one god, whilst I believe all gods are constructs and the energy behind them does not conform to anything you could lable 'god' hope that clears up any confusion, If Venom wants to go into it further he is welcome to start another thread with his PoV and I will answer any relevant points there rather than break the flow of this current thread.

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
.........................

#17    Chauncy

Chauncy

    Quixotic

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,033 posts
  • Joined:13 May 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

  • "Sanity may be madness but the maddest of all is to see life as it is and not as it should be." (from) Don Quixote

Posted 10 June 2004 - 07:13 PM

As I stated in my previous post about my beliefs I have overcome the need to personify this natural energy of our universe. Rising above this personified notion is difficult for many since the only reference we have for understanding is that which we have become accustume to.

Falco had mentioned that he at times likes to meditate or concentrate on the nature of this energy. I too try to focus on this energy as an attempt to become more in tune with it. I essentially want to tap right into this very frequency. Its kind of neat that the more often you attempt this the more equipped you are to do it again.

I feel that you can do this concentration not only in a meditation sense but in everyday life. Whether it be figuring out a problem or trying to relate to another, I feel that being in tune with this energy will better equip us in any endeavor.



As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost and science can never regress.
Julius Robert Oppenheimer. (1904-1967)
Posted Image

#18    Falco Rex

Falco Rex

    The Winged Avenger

  • Member
  • 4,702 posts
  • Joined:04 May 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana

  • I'll write something pithy here later, for now just use it to advertise your band.

Posted 10 June 2004 - 07:21 PM

Allright then, back on topic..
I believe that after you die your "soul" for lack of a better term splits into two parts. The first part, which is the basic life energy that everyone posesses, is reabsorbed by "God" or whatever you feel comfortable calling the Divine Force..
The second part, which consists of our memories and personalities and whatever makes each one of us uniquely us, travels to what some would term the Afterlife..
Just what the Afterlife is seems to vary with the individual, at least based on the Near Death Experiences I've heard about. Everyone seems to see what they expect..
That is why I suggested there may be multiple levels to the Afterlife. It seems unlikely to me that our minds can create an entire World after death, but I do think that our minds, recently freed from our bodies, may need time to adjust to a new state of being. Therefore maybe we create a dream afterlife of sorts until we've adjusted to the point where we're ready to take the next step into the world beyond.As to what that may be I can't even speculate at this point. Of course OBEs' may be merely dreams in the first place and we're merely absorbed into the Universe and that's it, but, if as you said, Your mere will can effect the physical world, it seems unlikely to me that something so strong would just cease to exist.
And yes I have had an incident where it seemed like I was miraculously healed. I don't know if that actually was the case as the Body can do some amazing things on it's own. But the change from severely injured to just about normal was so abrupt that it was shocking..
My next question for you is a bit of a light-weight, but I'm curious just the same..If you can work with your will to help cause physical effects, some might call that magic. Given that, is there really a light and dark side to that like some Wiccans have told me? If we're not judged by some Higher power, why would we be negatively ffected by using so-called Black Magic? It would seem that individual interpretation of what was positive and negative would be the most important thing in this case.

EDIT
I'm not trying to get us to discuss the nature of morality here either. I think we covered every possible angle of that on Snuffys' thread. I just mean, if your own morality allows for killing with no justification, and you could somehow work your will to make that happen, why would it come back to haunt you? Your perception of the act would be all that matters from a mystical sense, wouldn't it?

Edited by Falco Rex, 10 June 2004 - 07:42 PM.


#19    Chauncy

Chauncy

    Quixotic

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,033 posts
  • Joined:13 May 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

  • "Sanity may be madness but the maddest of all is to see life as it is and not as it should be." (from) Don Quixote

Posted 10 June 2004 - 08:16 PM

I believe in death we do continue.

From the second we are born we start to absorb energies through experiences and interactions. Throughout our lives we continue to absorb these energies that ultimately become our own personal energy signature. When our bodies cease to work this energy is released.

From this point of release I believe we have many roads to choose from, just like in life. Sometimes as Falco pointed out it takes time to adapt to this new state of being, I believe that sometimes the attachement to our old existence is too strong and thus an individual may choose to stay amongst the non-released energies....almost as if they are in a stage of denial, or have not absorbed enough energy through out life to exist else where.

While we are living we can, and some people most definitely do, harness that energy we have absorbed. The harnessing of this energy and the application of it can be directed at a wounded body or heart or mind, thus occurences of healing. Some do this at will some do it unintentionally.

As far as this harnessing and directing of energy is concerned. It can be done in a negative way as well. Some people are subject to and absorb negative energy. Some of them can harness and direct this negative energy just the same as those can with positive energy.

These negative energy users are so because I believe that they were subject to negative force enough that they further choose to keep on absorbing it and seek it out. Now the danger I believe is when someone of this negative energy becomes aware and in tune with it, and then they are able to harness it just as effectively as their positive counter parts.

All the ancient works of magic and such whether they be for good use or bad, are simply instructions on how to harness and increase indeed maintain this energy and use it to its full potential. We choose how to direct this energy.

To elaborate a little, I also believe that there is ALSO a central energy woven through out the universe that is not designated positive or negative. To tap into this energy force one could use it to however they saw fit....positively or negatively.

As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost and science can never regress.
Julius Robert Oppenheimer. (1904-1967)
Posted Image

#20    Fenris

Fenris

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Joined:09 Mar 2004
  • Location:London, UK

  • most grimley fiendish wabbithunting elfieblush making member of the Six Worst Men of the Apfelschnaps.

Posted 10 June 2004 - 08:31 PM

It isn't a moral issue realy, but more one that borders on science. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction..... thats the scientific quote, but in dealing with energy/magic it seems to be a greater opposite reaction, at least thats what I've percieved.

Now I don't adhere to to the christian formed lables of 'good' and 'bad' actions with all the moralistic overtones, but rather positive (benificial) and negative (Harmful) with no moralistic conotations.

When your intent is negative, the way you effect the energy is similarly negative, so when the energys balance out and you get the 'opposite' reaction, your likely to experience a build up of negativity that will effect events around and to you in a negative way...... Of course if your using positive energys, it can work to your advantage with the opposite effect being a benificial one.

You may note a distinct simerlarity in effect as Karma and you'd be right!

HOWEVER, the very fact that whatever "Wiccans" you were talking to where using terms such as light and dark in relation to 'magic' makes me strongly doubt they are reliable sorces of information... rather what many of us refer to as 'fluffy bunnies'.

OK next question, a subject dear to many of this forums members......
Ghosts, poltergeists and things that go bump in the night.... from your PoV of the way the universe works, what are they and how do they occur?

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
.........................

#21    Fenris

Fenris

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Joined:09 Mar 2004
  • Location:London, UK

  • most grimley fiendish wabbithunting elfieblush making member of the Six Worst Men of the Apfelschnaps.

Posted 10 June 2004 - 08:57 PM

To compleat the set I'll also answer my own question Re:Death as it certainly looks like an issue where, whilst there are again some points of simerlarity, there are significant diffrences.

We all seem to agree that part of what makes a living being is a portion of the divine energy, a divine spark if you will (I don't use the lable 'soul' as that carrys to much distracting baggage about the nature of that 'spark') but that isn't all we are, we have personality and memory.... those three aspects inhabit the body and voila you have a living being.....

The body is simply a shell, a vehical for the person. It is 'MY body' a posession and on death its served its perpouse and can decompose back into the food chain.

The divine spark, returns to source becomes once more part of the general energy of the divine nature of the universe (It may later be once more part of a person, but that is a new person and has no firm connection to the last one, the spark does not carry memory)

So we are left with the personality and memory.... Here I refer to the Kabbalistic Akashic records.... in essence this is our collective subconsious and it is this that the personality and memory become a part of when the spark leaves them behind to rejoin the main divine energy.

They no longer constitute a person, the spark of life has left, what is left is static and unchanging, like a file on a hard drive. It can be accessed by those with an affinity with that personality, giving rise to the likes of 'spirit mediums', spirit guides and past life memorys.

I do find it interesting that both Falco and myself have indipendently formulated a splitting off effect of the divine aspect cool.gif  

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
.........................

#22    MoonBaby

MoonBaby

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 309 posts
  • Joined:10 Apr 2004
  • Gender:Female

  • Ignorance I can handle, stupidity I can't.

Posted 10 June 2004 - 09:38 PM

Fenris,

I like your way of thinking. Let me ask a question though so I can kind of dumb it down to my level  laugh.gif.  You believe in an energy force that has no personality, no wants, no needs, no feelings, etc? And if that's correct, you believe in evolution?  

"This concept of 'wub' confuses and infuriates us!"
~Futurama <---- the aliens

#23    Fenris

Fenris

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Joined:09 Mar 2004
  • Location:London, UK

  • most grimley fiendish wabbithunting elfieblush making member of the Six Worst Men of the Apfelschnaps.

Posted 10 June 2004 - 10:08 PM

QUOTE (MoonBaby @ Jun 10 2004, 10:38 PM)
Fenris,

I like your way of thinking. Let me ask a question though so I can kind of dumb it down to my level  laugh.gif.  You believe in an energy force that has no personality, no wants, no needs, no feelings, etc? And if that's correct, you believe in evolution?

Correct. Whilst the energy does follow certain 'rules' it is not sentient, has no will, no personality, simply a force of nature (Or I suppose 'supernature' in that it is beyod current sciences ability to test it to work out its 'rules')

As for evolution, absolutely you CAN'T justifiably claim even a passing aquaintance with science and NOT believe in evolution! cool.gif  

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
.........................

#24    Venomshocker

Venomshocker

    Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 986 posts
  • Joined:21 Mar 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta

  • "Everything you are for strengthens you, everything you are against weakens you."

Posted 11 June 2004 - 12:13 AM

QUOTE
do find it interesting that both Falco and myself have indipendently formulated a splitting off effect of the divine aspect.


Thats interesting you guys came to that conclusion. There seems to be evidence of this across all world religons. I find this idea fascinating, and heres some more info on it from this guys PoV.

http://www.divisiontheory.com


Gestalt Reality
"Ultimately there is no such thing as meaning, only experience and creativity."  ~ Pleiadians

#25    Falco Rex

Falco Rex

    The Winged Avenger

  • Member
  • 4,702 posts
  • Joined:04 May 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana

  • I'll write something pithy here later, for now just use it to advertise your band.

Posted 11 June 2004 - 01:58 AM

Thanks for the link Venomshocker. I once read a quote that said the problem with Philosophy is that whenever you think you've discovered something profound, you find out the Greeks already thought of it 3000 years ago. This seems to be the case with Religion too.. wink2.gif

Now, Ghosts and Spirits! At last some light mental exercise. As several of these types of phenomenon seem to differ, I'll deal with them individually..

1. Poltergeists- I think poltergeists are not spirits at all. They appear to be a form of destructive energy that centers around a person. The fact that they manifest almost exclusively around teenagers and people prone to high emotional states leads me to believe that it is these people themselves generating this force subconciously. Or perhaps they are merely tapping into the Divine Well as it were..

2. Playbacks- The famous sightings of ghosts that always do the same thing or follow a set path of travel have often been explained as a moment caught in time replaying itself. It seems that for whatever reasons that some things are "Recorded" somehow, and are played back years later like a ghostly movie. I have no idea how to explain this in regards to physics, but I'm sure it can be done by someone more knowledgable than myself. The fact that these "Ghosts" have no intelligence and no purpose other than to repeat the same act over and over makes me think that they also are not spirits in the traditional sense.

3. Most other Ghosts including Dead Relatives, House haunters, Historical Ghosts,et al...
- I believe that almost every one of these can be explained by a number of things. Wishful thinking, sleep paralysis, paranoia or fear, the power of suggestion, hallucination and mental illness to name just a few...

And finally we come to the final type that doesn't seem to fit any of these categories..

4. Thought Forms- I remember reading once about how some Tibetan and Nepalese Lamas are able to create semi-physical beings purely from thought. These beings had only rudimentary intelligence but had thier own will. The Lamas controlled thier actions as a meditation exercise for themselves. If they lost control of the spirit they had made it was free to act however they pleased, and those actions were not necessarily good and could sometimes be mischievious or downright evil. However, invariably these beings only existed temporarily and disappeared when whatever energy they had been invested with was used up. To me, an unconsciously created thought that wasn't bound to anyone that had the ability to control it could explain any number of so-called "Ghosts."

I find it interesting, now that I think about it, that Tibetan thought forms sound much like the Aspects of different Gods Fenris reffered to. I wonder if that's working along the same lines?
So, as you see, superstition and things that go bump in the night don't play a large role in my version of Theology, as most of it can be explained by Physics or Psychology and what can't seems to be a product of our own energies..

You mentioned previously that your Theology incorporated Wicca, Shamanism and the Qabbala. What aspects of each have you taken for your own? Or have you incorporated all three belief systems in thier entirety?
That's probably a short answer question. If it is feel free to expound on a subject of your choice if you feel your post will be too short..  


#26    Fenris

Fenris

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Joined:09 Mar 2004
  • Location:London, UK

  • most grimley fiendish wabbithunting elfieblush making member of the Six Worst Men of the Apfelschnaps.

Posted 11 June 2004 - 08:50 AM

QUOTE
I find it interesting, now that I think about it, that Tibetan thought forms sound much like the Aspects of different Gods Fenris reffered to. I wonder if that's working along the same lines?


Very much along the same lines, the main diffrence between a 'standard' thought form and a god/dess aspect is the inclusion of the archetype from the akashic records/collective subconsious. As I see it there are many diffrent types of 'thought form' all using the same base principles, the Tibetan ones you reffrence and the aspects, to me, are but two of them.

QUOTE
You mentioned previously that your Theology incorporated Wicca, Shamanism and the Qabbala. What aspects of each have you taken for your own? Or have you incorporated all three belief systems in thier entirety?


Its difficult to deal with them in isolation as they where part of the path that brought me to where I am now, and the reasons they where the right choise at the time are as important to undertanding their impact as the tenets of each themself. So, a description of what brought me to this point....

Warning, some of it isn't pleasent!

Even going back to my earliest memorys around age 2, there are events that defy standard scientific analysis. Out of body experiences, finding myself riding as 'passenger' in an animal in the local area, other forms of 'remote viewing', limited spontanious pre-cog, being visited and talked to by my grandfather some few hours after he had actualy died........

Now the only theological influence in my enviroment was Catholic christianity.... and that simply didn't have any answers for what I was experiencing. One particularly blinkered individual even mentioned 'demonic possession' which I instinctivly knew was not the case.

After turning my back on the church at age 7, I started looking for my own answers, it took a number of years but eventualy I fell in with a gentleman who not only seemed to understand the experiences and relate similar experiences of his own (And when he did so i could 'feel' the truth of it, I 'knew' he was relating actual experiences that mirrored those of my own) and moreover he was able to help me consiously invoke several of the experiences in a more controlled manner where I could study them and learn from them. It was he who initiated me as a shaman.

He did have several shortfalls as a teacher however, namely I was being taught how to invoke the innate abilitys and then go with the flow, follow them and learn from them but not control them...... Then teenage hit with a vengence. A year or two after parting ways with him (He moved and we lost touch) Events in my life turned me into a very angry young man...... You can probably guess just how destructive the combination of that mind set and those abilitys are, especialy in refrence to what I later discovered about the 'equal and opposite reaction' of negative energy.... Anger and no control ment a great deal of negativity in my enviroment. Many people suffered a great deal of unfortunate 'co-incidences' not least myself.

Approaching late teenage I had developed into nothing more than a violent nasty animal and self destructive to boot (Alchoholism and exteame risk taking). Its said that when you can't go any lower, you face a chose.... I was there and the choise was this.... I realised I was someone whom I dispised and I either had to find a way to change that person..... or finish it because continuing as that person became something I was not prepaired to do.

Luckaly I had continued looking for answers even as the rest of my life was flushing itself down the toilet.... at that point I was examining aspects of eastern religion, and in that I was able to find enough inner peace to be able to work on myself. I went cold-turkey on the booze for a full year until I was sure I could control it rather than it controlling me and started developing anger management techniques....... of course this automaticaly lessened the amount of negativity I was throwing out and corespondingly the amount of negative impact on my life also lessened!

Most of the work during this time was medative, self exploratory and working on internal energys to redirect anger into a less negative responce pattern (I started verbaly exploding when annoyed rather than automaticaly hospitalising the person who made me angry).

This continued with gradual improvement both in the quality of life and stability, I was slowly but surely becomming someone I could tolerate and even, in some aspects, someone I saw I could eventualy like.... I was moving in the right direction

At the time one of the groups of people I was frequently interacting with was authors and I ended up corresponding breifly with one who was a wiccan. Who I'd read seemed sanitised and fluffy, but what he was saying was more real and made sense, I felt drawn to learn more so he organised an introduction to a lady a couple of hours away from where I lived. An innitiate of his who had hived off and formed her own coven....

Now I had started to develop a little self control on a personal level, but during my year and a day neophyting I began to realise how little control I had in my working and with my energys. She had her faults (Ego) but was a GREAT teacher, my learning curve went through the roof in all sorts of ways, especialy in control and understanding..... finaly I was starting to find the answers I'd been seeking, I began to understand not just how to do what I was doing but also the whys and, in some cases, the why nots. Whilst I would intuitivly take the easiest method in achieving the goal I had set, she taught me that the easiest way is not always the best way. I stopped the last of the negative enery projection and used the effect to my own benifit, invoking possitive energys.

My HPS (High priestess) was also a cabbalah innitiate and a couple of year in, I was asking questions and examining areas that wicca doesn't much touch on.... I was running out of lables to explain what I was doing and experiencing. Thats when she introduced me the the Kabbalah. The whole thing is steeped in Judeo-Christian symbolism and rhetoric but there are very useful tools in there. The Cabbalistic 'tree of life' is quite frankly one of the most versitile tools I have encountered to date. It not only provides a way to lable and therefore discuss the entire range of theological and metaphysical experience, but also a great structure for deep meditation.

Eventualy however I'd exhausted what I could learn from her, I'd learned to work with a group..... only to find I worked better alone. I learned to use 'working tools' .... only to find I didn't need them. I learnt to work with many god/dess forms... only to see through them to the raw energy of the universe at their core. I realised it was time to spread my wings and fly alone... only to find that as in most organisations, her ego didn't want to relinquish her percieved control..... I left anyhow.

So apart from the roles they played in my life, what do I currently take from each?
I am a shaman in the way I innately work, instinctual. I am a wiccan in the amount of care and control I apply to that working and I am a Cabbalist in the way I understand and can discuss that working!

Here's a question that may require some thought.... In what way does your theology , your beliefs manifest in your everyday life.... is it something you take time out to 'do' or is it integrated into the way you live?

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
.........................

#27    Permakid

Permakid

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • Joined:16 Apr 2004
  • Location:Oceanside, CA

Posted 11 June 2004 - 06:02 PM

I don't want to butt in too much, so I'll be brief.  Guys, I am thoroughly enjoying this thread!  thumbsup.gif  I share many ideas with both of you and I'm looking forward to reading more of your discussion!

I am writing because I have a question for you, Fenris.  In a previous post, you asked this question:

QUOTE (Fenris)
Ghosts, poltergeists and things that go bump in the night.... from your PoV of the way the universe works, what are they and how do they occur?


If you don't mind, I'd like for you to answer your own question.  Thanks!


Posted Image

#28    Falco Rex

Falco Rex

    The Winged Avenger

  • Member
  • 4,702 posts
  • Joined:04 May 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana

  • I'll write something pithy here later, for now just use it to advertise your band.

Posted 11 June 2004 - 07:15 PM

This may sound strange, but I find that my beliefs effect me more in thier absence than thier presence. To clarify a bit, If God doesn't watch me ,judge me, or punish me, then it is up to me to do these things myself. Therefore I try to perform no action that I would condemn myself. If there is no real judgement at the end of life then the responsibility of judging my worth and actions falls upon me while I'm alive.
Although I do believe in Karma I think it's as random a force as God. We all know there's some who don't get what they deserve in life. I don't want to rely on randomness to judge whether my actions merit punishment or not.
In short I place the responsibility of what I am firmly on my own shoulders. Living up to your own standards can be an incredibly difficult thing at times, but I do the best I can with it.
To use some alliteration, If I'm truly the captain of my own ship, it's up to me to run the kind of ship I'd like to sail on. When I fail to live life as I'd like to there's no Higher Power to confess to or ask forgiveness so it seems best to me to not need absolution in the first place..
There's nothing I really "Do" as part of an everyday religious routine except for occasional meditation like I've mentioned. Although these peaceful moments are getting few and far between as my son gets older I really don't feel I'm lacking in any way because of it.
I realize that the above views sound Atheistic in tone, but really they aren't. I just believe that since "God" provided us with free will and higher thought, he/she/it wouldn't interrupt our gifts by imposing judgement or Dogma upon us. It would make the original gift worthless..
I hope that made some sense to you readers out there.. wacko.gif

I'll ask another fairly easy question of you Fenris,since you'll no doubt want to reply to Permakid as well. I believe you mentioned in another thread that you had two sons. How does your belief effect them,if at all? Do you educate them on your views, or are you content that they find thier own center alone? And how do your beliefs effect the way you bring them up?


#29    Chauncy

Chauncy

    Quixotic

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,033 posts
  • Joined:13 May 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

  • "Sanity may be madness but the maddest of all is to see life as it is and not as it should be." (from) Don Quixote

Posted 11 June 2004 - 07:51 PM

Falco
QUOTE
Although I do believe in Karma I think it's as random a force as God. We all know there's some who don't get what they deserve in life. I don't want to rely on randomness to judge whether my actions merit punishment or not.


I like this idea of  random Karma. It has been an observation of mine that the reason why what goes around comes around is because it was put out there in the first place. Where as when someone fills their life with negative actions they then create a world around them of negativity. Therefore they end up living in a negative environment and this is why it comes back to them negatively.

This is why it is always beneficial to fill our lives with this good/positive energy, so we exist in a positive environment as will those that co-exist with us.

Fenris
QUOTE
Approaching late teenage I had developed into nothing more than a violent nasty animal and self destructive to boot (Alchoholism and exteame risk taking).


I realize that we all make mistakes, would you be of the notion that the most positive thing you can do with your mistakes is gain wisdom from them. Where as in hindsight once you've realized your errors that the next step is to correct them, as you did, then finally gain from them. In essence the negative energy we create for ourselves can in fact be turned into a positive strength.

I feel that this should be the path in every aspect of life. I never get scared of  failure this way because I know that I will rise up stronger and wiser. Bring it on I say!!




As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost and science can never regress.
Julius Robert Oppenheimer. (1904-1967)
Posted Image

#30    Fenris

Fenris

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Joined:09 Mar 2004
  • Location:London, UK

  • most grimley fiendish wabbithunting elfieblush making member of the Six Worst Men of the Apfelschnaps.

Posted 12 June 2004 - 10:03 AM

Permakid asked:
QUOTE
I am writing because I have a question for you, Fenris. In a previous post, you asked this question:


Not dis-similar to Falco on the subject of ghosts, there are several  types that people use this lable for and from my PoV several causes of the phenomina.

Poltergeists, tend to apear around some teenagers and is almost certainly some form of uncontrolled telekenetic activity. Sometimes when the teen says "I never touched the vase, it just jumped off the table and smashed all by its self".... they are sort of telling the truth.

As for visual events, and ghosts that you can in some way interact with its a combination of two things (And dependent on how much each is present will determine the actions/capabilitys of the apparent ghost).

Firstly, as any scientist that has worked with electro-magnetic fields can proove, if you surround an object that is receptive with a flow of energy (Such as a coil on insulated wire round an iron bar) you can imprint the object with that energy dispite there having been no direct contact (The wire is insulated, so the energy doesn't actualy contact the object, yet if the charge is high enough and applied for long enough the metal in imprinted and begins to show that change by acting as a magnet)......

What has this got to do with ghosts? Everything! It shows energy can and does get imprinted on objects..... Apart from our bodys, what are we? Our thoughts, memorys, personality all work in energy impulses in the brain (They can even measure the impulses and tell you what sort of thing you are thinking from what part of the brain the energy is most active in!)

If we are in one place for long enough doing the same thing.... OR we have a traumatic event that releases a large enough burst of energy then we can imprint that on the surrounding objects..... That imprint can later be picked up by those receptive to doing so. Now we don't actualy 'see' objects.... our eyes see them and send impulses to the brain where we 'decode' the signal and 'see' the image. What often happens is that people pick up the imprint, but it isn't through any of our normal senses.... so it routes through a part of the brain that can make some kind of sence of whats being picked up.... your eyes aren't seeing the signal but the same part of the brain that allows you to see is doing the translation.... so you effectivly see the ghost. It also explains why some will see the ghost, others only get a 'chill down the spine' (They can sense the imprint but their brain don't know how to make sense of it!) and others get nothing at all.

Usualy these are just images, non interactive snapshots of events long ago that where imprinted on the surroundings. Remember I said there are two elements to ghosts, this is the second and rarer one but it is the cause of ALL the 'worst case senarios! Occassionaly receptive people will unwittingly empower them, turning them into thought forms where upon they can display an interactive nature.... but it isn't the imprint that is doing it.... rather the receptive person.... take them from the enviroment of somehow stop them empowering the thought form and the interactive nature stops, just leaving the base imprint again.

And pre-empting the question, yep I've seen and dealt with all the phenomenon I described, it is those experiences on which I base what I believe of the subject. In short I don't believe in 'ghosts' and so I tell any that I meet  tongue.gif


Falco asked:

QUOTE
you mentioned in another thread that you had two sons. How does your belief effect them,if at all? Do you educate them on your views, or are you content that they find thier own center alone? And how do your beliefs effect the way you bring them up?


A bit tricky in that one as neither lives with me. The first I was very young and she wasn't(and her husband thinks its his son.... thankfully he can't count (Or doesn't want to)) I had nothing to do with his upbringing and no contact since he was born.

With my youngest his mother and I where together for around four years before she decided to find herself a better meal ticket and ripped our family apart.... But I did raise him for that time so my answer is based on that...

Given my beliefs are that everyone needs must find and walk their own path, wherever that path takes them, I don't have much Dogma to instil in a child of mine. He was encouraged to communicate and question. The few occassions he asked about other religions (Prompted by meeting kids from diffrent religions at Kindergarten) I found open minded people of those religions for him to ask.

I took the view that if he was old enough to form the question then he was old enough for some level of honest answer, it occassionaly took a bit of work from both of us to find words he could grasp and concepts he could understand but we would keep going till he was satisfied he had is question answered..... A lot of it began, "I don't know if there is any answer, but I can tell you what daddy believes... as you get older you can try and find your own answer OK"

I guess the main diffrence was that he was brought up with a healthy sense of reality..... For instance, he knew that what turned up on his plate at meal times where parts of the pigs, sheep, fish, ducks etc that he saw elsewhere. He was always told as much of the truth as he could grasp and given the oppertunity to make up his own mind.

Chauncy asked:
QUOTE
would you be of the notion that the most positive thing you can do with your mistakes is gain wisdom from them


If you don't learn from your mistakes then your doomed to repeat them! There are many unpleasent things in my past (Some that makes the things I've mentioned so far look like a rose garden!) but if I was in a position to go back and change any of it.... I wouldn't, as the rocky road which I've walked led me to being who I am today.... and I happen to like who I am now  cool.gif

"That which does not destroy us, only serves to make us stronger" Is something my Grandmother used to say and is SO right..... the weakest, shallowest, most nieve and bland people I've ever met have lived in spoiled protected enviroments and the biggest adversity they had to overcome was a paper cut from all the money they parent gave them..... with nothing to challenge you, you don't learn as fast!

OK Falco..... here is a hypotetical situation for you (Only sort of hypothetical as I had it happen to me) a young person (Say around 20) has known you for a while and seems more than a little impressed with the way you view the univers. You know they have been seeking the next step on their path.... they aproach you and ask "Teach me"...... how do you respond?

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
.........................




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users