Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Sitchin's Folly: Graffiti in the Pyramid


  • Please log in to reply
476 replies to this topic

#421    stereologist

stereologist

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,372 posts
  • Joined:08 Sep 2009
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 April 2013 - 01:26 PM

Quote

You claim a point for the egyptologist because they showed Scott that Sitchin was wrong about Hill Fascimile, doesn't seem fair.
Third eye suggested that we can also consult someone who knows calligraphy to better interpret the Cartouche, it might hold clues to how it was painted and who did it.
The actual analysis of the Cartouche is still going on and is independant of what Sitchin said about the Hill fascimile.
Completely wrong. Go back and read my post.


#422    mstower

mstower

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 118 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2013

Posted 29 April 2013 - 01:29 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 27 April 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

What was that you were saying about "experts"?

That you keep trying to be one, on the strength of stuff you’ve just Googled.

Thanks for making my point for me.

M.


#423    Scott Creighton

Scott Creighton

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 802 posts
  • Joined:22 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland, United Kingdom

  • Consensus opinion isn't fact.

Posted 29 April 2013 - 01:41 PM

View Postmstower, on 29 April 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

SC: Humphries Brewer’s obituary would have been written by people who knew him and his life. . . .

MS: Oh, come on!

Quote

. . . The writer of this article is not sufficiently acquainted with the earlier parts of his life to give a correct history of it. . . .

SC: What? You really think the writer of the obituary wrote the piece in complete isolation without asking any of his family about his past life, what his major life achievements were? So they knew about some obscure part of his life in Egypt but nothing at all about a prestigious engineering achievement? How naïve can you possibly be?

Quote

MS: Try reading.

SC: Try thinking.

SC

"The man o' independent mind... is king o' men, for a' that." - Robert Burns

#424    Irna

Irna

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 126 posts
  • Joined:27 Jun 2006
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

SC: Can you present the primary source for the above statement? Can you present an edition of ‘The Corning Journal’ of that date that actually states the above?

The Corning Journal, January 16, 1868: http://fultonhistory...cale - 0434.pdf

Quote

He came to this
country twenty years ago, having been
previously engaged as a civil engineer
in constructing a bridge over the Danube

By the way, when you give a primary source, it would be better to give the actual link, rather than a link to a copy placed on your own website.


#425    Scott Creighton

Scott Creighton

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 802 posts
  • Joined:22 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland, United Kingdom

  • Consensus opinion isn't fact.

Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:17 PM

View PostIrna, on 29 April 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

SC: Can you present the primary source for the above statement? Can you present an edition of ‘The Corning Journal’ of that date that actually states the above?

The Corning Journal, January 16, 1868: http://fultonhistory...cale - 0434.pdf

Quote

He came to this country twenty years ago, having been previously engaged as a civil engineer in constructing a bridge over the Danube.

SC: Thank you for that. First of all it is at variance with the actual Obituary published in the Watkins Express. This is a second-hand account of the actual obituary “…the Wellsboro papers contain an obituary notice of the late Humphries Brewer…” No mention in this secondary report of a prize. No mention in this secondary account of the Thames Tunnel? No mention either of Brewer’s ‘prize winning design’ or that he was in charge of anything. He was “…engaged as a civil engineer in constructing a bridge over the Danube…” Every person who worked in the construction phase of the bridge would have been employed “…in constructing a bridge over the Danube …” Doesn’t mean or even imply that Brewer was responsible for building it. This secondary account doesn’t even give the name of the bridge. Do we have a record anywhere of every single person employed to actually build W. T. Clark’s bridge? Brewer could have been employed on it for a day, a week, a month. Would anyone know? Would his employment on it be written down in personnel records anywhere?

Quote

Irna: By the way, when you give a primary source, it would be better to give the actual link, rather than a link to a copy placed on your own website.

SC: Normally I do but given that I will be using some of this material for my next book, I have saved it to my own site for ease of referencing. I have often found in the past that such useful information can disappear, never to be found again. Hence why I post it to my own site. Thanks again for the Corning Journal piece—very useful.

SC

Edited by Scott Creighton, 29 April 2013 - 03:26 PM.

"The man o' independent mind... is king o' men, for a' that." - Robert Burns

#426    Irna

Irna

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 126 posts
  • Joined:27 Jun 2006
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:53 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

This is a second-hand account of the actual obituary

As is the Watkins Express' one, unless you can compare with the original.
The point is, at the time of Brewer's death, the legend of his having constructing a bridge over the Danube was already circulating.
You can construct any fiction you want about Brewer's story, his participation in the construction of the bridge in Budapest (not to mention his "design" of it and the "prize" he is said to have received) is not attested nowhere; nor is his actual meeting with Howard Vyse, even if he actually travelled in Egypt.

The only mention of Brewer having worked with Howard Vyse is in Mr. Allen's notes; and it is perfectly clear that these notes can't be relied on, as shown by their mention of the "prize for bridge he designed in Vienna".

Edited by Irna, 29 April 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#427    mstower

mstower

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 118 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2013

Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:31 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

Try thinking.

Try it yourself.

You’re making a claim about the writer which the writer explicitly disavowed.  Again:

Quote

. . . The writer of this article is not sufficiently acquainted with the earlier parts of his life to give a correct history of it. . . .

And Creighton, the family may have had other things on their minds than talking to a reporter.

M.


#428    Irna

Irna

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 126 posts
  • Joined:27 Jun 2006
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:41 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

SC: Who was making “slanderous” allegations against Howard-Vyse and what was the precise nature of this “slander”? He doesn’t say.

You should read Howard Vyse entirely: you would have found the answer.
See Volume 2, page 152 to 176.

And before you use this material in further smearing of Howard Vyse's personality, try to remember that Caviglia himself was not a saint: none of these early "egyptologists", in fact explorers, adventurers, collectors and treasure hunters, was.


#429    mstower

mstower

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 118 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2013

Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 28 April 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

A number of years ago my brother-in-law won an award for designing a bridge over the river Clyde in Glasgow, Scotland. The competition was run by his university department. A number of years later, a new bridge was built over the River Clyde. It wasn’t my brother-in-law’s design that was ultimately built. But he is still very proud of his design award. . . .

He kept it, then?

So where’s Humphries Brewer’s prize (as per his daughter, Mary Humphries Christie née Brewer) or decoration (as per his eldest son, William Marchant Brewer)?

Surely it would be an important family heirloom?

Where, for that matter, is his certificate from the University of Berlin?  Surely that would be kept, if a bunch of old letters was?

M.


#430    mstower

mstower

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 118 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2013

Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:51 PM

View Postmstower, on 27 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Following up Creighton’s helpful indication that the Fulton History site has added the Watkins Express, I find there is more about Humphries Brewer and that bridge:

http://fultonhistory...1866 - 0309.pdf

It is of course possible that Humphries Brewer, through the connections established at Box, found work in some capacity on the project—but there is no corroboration of this, and plainly the family legend credits him with far more.

M.

Which prompted me to place the reports in chronological order:

Quote

Presumable source: Humphries Brewer himself?

Document: Watkins Express, Thu 6 Aug 1865

The Engineer and General Superintendent of the Mines is Mr. Humphrey [sic] Brewer, who lives in a large white house on a knoll near by.  He is an Englishman by birth, and was an Assistant Engineer in the construction of a Suspension Bridge over the broad waters of the Danube. . . .

Presumable source: uncertain

Document: The Corning Journal, Thu 16 Jan 1868

The Wellsboro papers contain an obituary notice of the late Humphries BreWer, . . . He came to this country twenty years ago, having been previously engaged as a civil engineer in constructing a bridge over the Danube. . . .

Presumable source: Mary Humphries Brewer (Christie)

Document: History of Monona County, Iowa (Chicago: National Publishing Company, 1890)

. . . Submitting plans for the great bridge across the Danube River, which unites the two cities of Buda and Pesth, in Hungary, the feasability of construction of which, was much doubted by engineers, he was awarded the prize and built the bridge, which is a marvel of skill. . . .

Presumable source: William Marchant Brewer

Document: The Evening Leader, Corning, Sat 30 July 1921

. . . For many years he was a surveyor for the crown having been decorated by the king for the building of a bridge across the Danube at Budapest. . . .

The earliest, which appeared during Humphries Brewer’s lifetime, plainly has the strongest claim to represent something he said about himself.

The sequence in toto suggests a tale which grew in the telling.

M.

Edited by mstower, 29 April 2013 - 04:52 PM.


#431    Scott Creighton

Scott Creighton

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 802 posts
  • Joined:22 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland, United Kingdom

  • Consensus opinion isn't fact.

Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:53 PM

View PostIrna, on 29 April 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

SC: This is a second-hand account of the actual obituary

Irna: As is the Watkins Express' one, unless you can compare with the original.

SC: No—that would make the Corning Journal’s account third hand.

Quote

Irna: The point is, at the time of Brewer's death, the legend of his having constructing a bridge over the Danube was already circulating.

SC: Nonsense. There is no mention of such in Brewer’s actual obituary. A very glaring omission I would have thought. The ‘myth’ of a ‘prize design’ and the ‘Thames Tunnel’ and actually being responsible for building the bridge is not mentioned anywhere in these early accounts.

Quote

Irna: You can construct any fiction you want about Brewer's story, his participation in the construction of the bridge in Budapest (not to mention his "design" of it and the "prize" he is said to have received) is not attested nowhere;

SC: Well, that’s exactly the point, isn’t it? Why would these design prizes etc be attested any where? Someone, somewhere along the line, some time after Brewer’s death made this up because it is not attested in Brewer’s own Obituary (and it would have been had Brewer told his family and friends about it, which he would have done had he done such a marvelous thing). The only thing that has been said about this at the time of Brewer’s death comes from the Corning Journal who merely state that Brewer was engaged as a civil engineer in the construction of a bridge over the Danube.  That’s it! That is like saying Joe Bloggs was engaged as a labourer in the construction of a bridge over the Danube. Without personnel records from the time, we will not be able to determine the veracity of that particular question but it may well be true and it may well have been at the root of the later crossed-wires in the 1890 Monona County publication and thence by the later family.

Quote

Irna: …nor is his actual meeting with Howard Vyse, even if he actually travelled in Egypt.

SC: This is the one piece of evidence that Brewer’s obituary does state—that he went to Egypt. Walter Allen’s family ‘notes’ talks about Brewer going to Egypt with Dr Naylor who, as far as I can tell, wanted to have an eye hospital built there. This man and his mission is actually mentioned by Howard-Vyse in his Journal, thus corroborating that part of Walter Allen’s family record. I see little reason to doubt this.

Quote

Irna: The only mention of Brewer having worked with Howard Vyse is in Mr. Allen's notes; and it is perfectly clear that these notes can't be relied on, as shown by their mention of the "prize for bridge he designed in Vienna"

SC: This was a family tradition that had been passed down for generations. They probably found the erroneous information about the prize bridge design in the 1890 Monona County book and simply accepted that information from that source on good faith. But that book was not the source for the other comment’s in Walter Allen’s family account. There are clearly different sources for different aspects of this account. So we dismiss all of this family account simply because one completely unrelated source refering to a completely separate aspect of Brewer's life was found wanting? Is that what you are saying? No—the proper thing to do is to keep digging and keep asking questions until, hopefully, we get nearer to the absolute truth in all of this.

Or perhaps you would much prefer that we stop digging? You never know what skeleton might be dug up. But I, for one, fully intend to keep digging.

SC

Edited by Scott Creighton, 29 April 2013 - 05:08 PM.

"The man o' independent mind... is king o' men, for a' that." - Robert Burns

#432    mstower

mstower

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 118 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2013

Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:53 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

They probably found the erroneous information about the prize bridge design in the 1890 Monona County book and simply accepted that information from that source on good faith.

What is this drivel?  What the book contains is a profile of Lawrence Elias Christie, who married Mary Humphries Brewer, Humphries Brewer’s second daughter.  That she is the source of the information about her father is far closer to a practical certainty than your claims about “the” obituary being based on family sources.

(What is this nonsense about “the” obituary?  Do you think this is The Highlander?  “There can be only one.”)

And again, the claim that Humphries Brewer was “decorated by the king for the building of a bridge across the Danube at Budapest” appeared in a profile of William Marchant Brewer, Humphries Brewer’s eldest son, a profile which appeared during his lifetime.  That William Marchant Brewer is the source of the claims about his father is, again, close to a practical certainty.

These are as strong attestations to the tradition passed on by Humphries Brewer’s children as we could reasonably ask for.

M.

Edited by mstower, 29 April 2013 - 05:54 PM.


#433    Scott Creighton

Scott Creighton

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 802 posts
  • Joined:22 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland, United Kingdom

  • Consensus opinion isn't fact.

Posted 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM

View Postmstower, on 29 April 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

MS: What is this drivel?  What the book contains is a profile of Lawrence Elias Christie, who married Mary Humphries Brewer, Humphries Brewer’s second daughter.  

SC: What a detection. We really should be calling you Sherlock.

Quote

MS: That she is the source of the information about her father is far closer to a practical certainty than your claims about “the” obituary being based on family sources.

SC: “Far closer”? Can you quantify that precisely for us? And eh - don’t families, friends and work colleagues contribute to obituaries? Oh look – no mention by the family, friends or colleagues about design prizes for Danube Bridges. Why do you think they all neglected to mention that major event in the obituary? Pray tell us, oh great Sherlock.

Quote

MS: (What is this nonsense about “the” obituary?  Do you think this is The Highlander?  “There can be only one.”)

SC: Well, I’d be very happy to see any other obituaries written for Humphries Brewer if you can source them?

Quote

MS: And again, the claim that Humphries Brewer was “decorated by the king for the building of a bridge across the Danube at Budapest” appeared in a profile of William Marchant Brewer, Humphries Brewer’s eldest son, a profile which appeared during his lifetime.  That William Marchant Brewer is the source of the claims about his father is, again, close to a practical certainty.

SC: And not a single peep in HB’s obituary. A rather glaring omission, I would say. The family must have been mortified at such a glaring oversight. And eh – exactly how close is “close to a practical certainty”? Care to quantify that more exactly for us? I, for one, would be ever so grateful.

Quote

MS: These are as strong attestations to the tradition passed on by Humphries Brewer’s children as we could reasonably ask for.

SC Twaddle-dee, and twaddle-dum.

You have to do better than this.

SC

"The man o' independent mind... is king o' men, for a' that." - Robert Burns

#434    Tutankhaten-pasheri

Tutankhaten-pasheri

    Buratinologist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:страна дураков

Posted 29 April 2013 - 08:08 PM

Posted Image


#435    Irna

Irna

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 126 posts
  • Joined:27 Jun 2006
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 29 April 2013 - 08:14 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 29 April 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

Posted Image

I think I understand what you're feeling...





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users