81 replies to this topic

[MARAB0D]

Quote

[T]he systematic misrepresentation of the science of disasters and climate change in major science assessments. … [T]here is a pattern of behavior taking place in this community that should be of concern to anyone who cares about the integrity of science, regardless of their position on climate policies and politics.

Iams, I was recently quoting here chapters 46-48 of Nietzsche's Antichrist, in which he blames the above on Christianity, proving that the Christian ideology encourages destruction of the historically bred elites and brings to power mediocrity, which originates from the former peasants, slaves and serfs and has no inbuilt necessity to follow pride, honor and decency. Scientists are supposed to be the wisest people of society, modern priests, carriers of Knowledge - but when a former peasant although smart is appointed to be such priest, he simply continues doing what his ancestors were doing for centuries - to serve to those with political power. In some sense we reap what we were sowing

[IamsSon]

marabod, on 24 January 2010 - 09:13 PM, said:

Iams, I was recently quoting here chapters 46-48 of Nietzsche's Antichrist, in which he blames the above on Christianity, proving that the Christian ideology encourages destruction of the historically bred elites and brings to power mediocrity, which originates from the former peasants, slaves and serfs and has no inbuilt necessity to follow pride, honor and decency. Scientists are supposed to be the wisest people of society, modern priests, carriers of Knowledge - but when a former peasant although smart is appointed to be such priest, he simply continues doing what his ancestors were doing for centuries - to serve to those with political power. In some sense we reap what we were sowing

This is rich! So, the problems with bad science (science being manipulated to yield pre-conceived results) is Christianity?

I would say the problem with bad science is the same problem with all human endeavors: self-centered, self-serving humans. God's grace addresses this problem, it doesn't cause it.

Edited by IamsSon, 24 January 2010 - 10:24 PM.

[MARAB0D]

IamsSon, on 24 January 2010 - 09:52 PM, said:

This is rich! So, the problems with bad science is Christianity?

I would say the problem with bad science is the same problem with all human endeavors: self-centered, self-serving humans. God's grace addresses this problem, it doesn't cause it.

At least your church cannot be openly blamed for it, as Nietzsche was saying this already 130 years ago... But it is true that the bar was severely lowered in tertiary education, and many pseudo-scientists originated from this lowering, which have to follow politically-correct ways, being unsure in own scientific capacity. This makes the remaining enthusiasts to be in minority.

[IamsSon]

marabod, on 24 January 2010 - 10:10 PM, said:

At least your church cannot be openly blamed for it, as Nietzsche was saying this already 130 years ago... But it is true that the bar was severely lowered in tertiary education, and many pseudo-scientists originated from this lowering, which have to follow politically-correct ways, being unsure in own scientific capacity. This makes the remaining enthusiasts to be in minority.

The bar being lowered, and self-deluded, self-centered, self-serving people manipulating science to further their own agendas are evidence that the message of the Bible is true, not that Christianity leads to this.

[MARAB0D]

IamsSon, on 24 January 2010 - 10:23 PM, said:

The bar being lowered, and self-deluded, self-centered, self-serving people manipulating science to further their own agendas are evidence that the message of the Bible is true, not that Christianity leads to this.

What happens cannot stop Science, it simply makes it less efficient. I do not feel advanced enough to establish is the Bible true or not, I know I do not use it in my daily life as there is no need in it. Islam also leads to this, but it is more elitistic than Christianity, and Nietzsche liked it for this. I suggest you to read the book itself.

[IamsSon]

marabod, on 24 January 2010 - 10:45 PM, said:

What happens cannot stop Science, it simply makes it less efficient. I do not feel advanced enough to establish is the Bible true or not, I know I do not use it in my daily life as there is no need in it. Islam also leads to this, but it is more elitistic than Christianity, and Nietzsche liked it for this. I suggest you to read the book itself.

Nice try, but no cigar. I did not say the manipulation of science in the AGW field would stop science, you're the one who tried to smear Christianity with the slime of this scandal.

[MARAB0D]

IamsSon, on 25 January 2010 - 12:25 AM, said:

Nice try, but no cigar. I did not say the manipulation of science in the AGW field would stop science, you're the one who tried to smear Christianity with the slime of this scandal.

Christianity has no direct involvement! But it is surely responsible for the idea of equality of rights and the climax of this teaching (already stripped of God thing) is Anarchism and Communism. These two are also targeting to build God's Kingdom on earth. Read the book, you must be thrilled holding in the hands a book with such title It only takes no more than 2 hours to read it in full.

[IamsSon]

marabod, on 25 January 2010 - 01:08 AM, said:

Christianity has no direct involvement! But it is surely responsible for the idea of equality of rights and the climax of this teaching (already stripped of God thing) is Anarchism and Communism. These two are also targeting to build God's Kingdom on earth. Read the book, you must be thrilled holding in the hands a book with such title It only takes no more than 2 hours to read it in full.

Oh, I believe that one of Christianity's lasting effects on Western civilization was the rise of the value of equality, that's not the issue I have with what yuo said. To say that this sense of equality is what led to the AGW fiasco is disingenuous. The scientists involved in this fiasco are not stupid or undereducated, they are simply self-interested people.

[IamsSon]

Aaand the hits just keep on comin'!

Quote

Glacier scientist: I knew data hadn't been verified
The scientist behind the bogus claim in a Nobel Prize-winning UN report that Himalayan glaciers will have melted by 2035 last night admitted it was included purely to put political pressure on world leaders.Dr Murari Lal also said he was well aware the statement, in the 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), did not rest on peer-reviewed scientific research.

In an interview with The Mail on Sunday, Dr Lal, the co-ordinating lead author of the report’s chapter on Asia, said: ‘It related to several countries in this region and their water sources. We thought that if we can highlight it, it will impact policy-makers and politicians and encourage them to take some concrete action.

‘It had importance for the region, so we thought we should put it in.’

Full article

[MARAB0D]

IamsSon, on 25 January 2010 - 01:34 AM, said:

Oh, I believe that one of Christianity's lasting effects on Western civilization was the rise of the value of equality, that's not the issue I have with what yuo said. To say that this sense of equality is what led to the AGW fiasco is disingenuous. The scientists involved in this fiasco are not stupid or undereducated, they are simply self-interested people.

They are self-interested people BECAUSE they are not originating from the elite (which was destroyed under the influence of Christianity). Read the book! http://www.fns.org.uk/ac.htm

Quote

The poisonous doctrine, "equal rights for all," has been propagated as a Christian principle: out of the secret nooks and crannies of bad instinct Christianity has waged a deadly war upon all feelings of reverence and distance between man and man, which is to say, upon the first prerequisite to every step upward, to every development of civilization--out of the ressentiment of the masses it has forged its chief weapons against us, against everything noble, joyous and high spirited on earth, against our happiness on earth . . .  To allow "immortality" to every Peter and Paul was the greatest, the most vicious outrage upon noble humanity ever perpetrated.--And let us not underestimate the fatal influence that Christianity has had, even upon politics! Nowadays no one has courage any more for special rights, for the right of dominion, for feelings of honourable pride in himself and his equals--for the pathos of distance. . . Our politics is sick with this lack of courage!--The aristocratic attitude of mind has been undermined by the lie of the equality of souls; and if belief in the "privileges of the majority" makes and will continue to make revolution--it is Christianity, let us not doubt, and Christian valuations, which convert every revolution into a carnival of blood and crime! Christianity is a revolt of all creatures that creep on the ground against everything that is lofty: the gospel of the "lowly" lowers . . .

[IamsSon]

marabod, on 25 January 2010 - 02:22 AM, said:

They are self-interested people BECAUSE they are not originating from the elite (which was destroyed under the influence of Christianity). Read the book! http://www.fns.org.uk/ac.htm

No, they are self-interested because they are human. Look around, you don't need a book to see that.

[MARAB0D]

IamsSon, on 25 January 2010 - 02:43 AM, said:

No, they are self-interested because they are human. Look around, you don't need a book to see that.

You probably do not know the others, it is not many of them, so this is not surprising. Some people would rather die starving than accept money for telling lies. This is the way they are brought up in a family.

[IamsSon]

marabod, on 25 January 2010 - 02:50 AM, said:

You probably do not know the others, it is not many of them, so this is not surprising. Some people would rather die starving than accept money for telling lies. This is the way they are brought up in a family.

I believe all humans are to some degree self-interested. Many do not exercise their self-interest in big ways, but we all do, and we certainly all think about it.

[MARAB0D]

IamsSon, on 25 January 2010 - 02:53 AM, said:

I believe all humans are to some degree self-interested. Many do not exercise their self-interest in big ways, but we all do, and we certainly all think about it.

It is hard for one person to speak for the others. Some people do not have principles, some do have them - so it is not the money only but their origins which are counted. After all this is based on self-respect, and the elite has it enhanced. In Victorian times they were saying "it takes at least 3 generations to produce a gentleman". People inherently poor are almost always pragmatic, principless, insensitive and cruel, as they first of all other things need MONEY. Christianity of the contrary teaches that wealthy people are spiritually inferior...

[IamsSon]

marabod, on 25 January 2010 - 03:01 AM, said:

It is hard for one person to speak for the others. Some people do not have principles, some do have them - so it is not the money only but their origins which are counted.

I did not mention money, I mentioned self-interest, self-centeredness and self-delusion.

Quote

After all this is based on self-respect, and the elite has it enhanced. In Victorian times they were saying "it takes at least 3 generations to produce a gentleman".

I disagree. It's not based on self-respect, it's based on self-centerdness.

Quote

People inherently poor are almost always pragmatic, principless, insensitive and cruel, as they first of all other things need MONEY. Christianity of the contrary teaches that wealthy people are spiritually inferior...

I disagree. Christianity teaches that all humans are self-centered, whether rich or poor. The rich are no less or no more spiritual, they may, however, worry less about their spiritual/eternal status because their terrestrial status is comfortable enough to lull them.