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Climate Gate "Scientists" Violated FOIA Law


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#1    IamsSon

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 12:07 AM

Quote

The university at the centre of the climate change row over stolen e-mails broke the law by refusing to hand over its raw data for public scrutiny.

  The University of East Anglia breached the Freedom of Information Act by refusing to comply with requests for data concerning claims by its scientists that man-made emissions were causing global warming.

  The Information Commissionerís Office decided that UEA failed in its duties under the Act but said that it could not prosecute those involved because the complaint was made too late, The Times has learnt. The ICO is now seeking to change the law to allow prosecutions if a complaint is made more than six months after a breach.

The stolen e-mails , revealed on the eve of the Copenhagen summit, showed how the universityís Climatic Research Unit attempted to thwart requests for scientific data and other information, and suggest that senior figures at the university were involved in decisions to refuse the requests. It is not known who stole the e-mails.

Professor Phil Jones, the unitís director, stood down while an inquiry took place. The ICOís decision could make it difficult for him to resume his post.

Details of the breach emerged the day after John Beddington, the Chief Scientific Adviser, warned that there was an urgent need for more honesty about the uncertainty of some predictions. His intervention followed admissions from scientists that the rate of glacial melt in the Himalayas had been grossly exaggerated.


"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#2    Caesar

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 12:32 AM

LOL here another one that came out today. And now for Amazongate


#3    Mattshark

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 12:46 AM

I agree with the general faculty of EAU on this, the raw data is available from the MET office, if they wanted it they should have done what everyone else has to do and get from there. They didn't ask for raw data and hence this is imo a nonsense.

Edited by Mattshark, 29 January 2010 - 12:46 AM.

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#4    IamsSon

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 01:08 AM

View PostMattshark, on 29 January 2010 - 12:46 AM, said:

I agree with the general faculty of EAU on this, the raw data is available from the MET office, if they wanted it they should have done what everyone else has to do and get from there. They didn't ask for raw data and hence this is imo a nonsense.

How shocking that you would find this to be nonsense! Posted Image

Whether the raw data is available or not somewhere else is irrelevant.  There was a legal request made, and the only LEGAL  and ETHICAL response would be to provide the data.  Even scientists should know this.

Edited by IamsSon, 29 January 2010 - 01:08 AM.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#5    Mattshark

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 01:26 AM

View PostIamsSon, on 29 January 2010 - 01:08 AM, said:

How shocking that you would find this to be nonsense! Posted Image

Whether the raw data is available or not somewhere else is irrelevant.  There was a legal request made, and the only LEGAL  and ETHICAL response would be to provide the data.  Even scientists should know this.
Actually that is totally incorrect, it is availability of the raw data in question and as EAU have said that is available from the MET office and that is what this claim is over.
Ethics has nothing to do with it.

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#6    IamsSon

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 01:51 AM

View PostMattshark, on 29 January 2010 - 01:26 AM, said:

Actually that is totally incorrect, it is availability of the raw data in question and as EAU have said that is available from the MET office and that is what this claim is over.
Ethics has nothing to do with it.

A legal request was made, and they actively and purposefully did not release the data.

Quote

The Information Commissioner's Office decided that UEA failed in its duties under the Act

You can keep making whatever excuses you want, but the responsible organization has made it's verdict.  THEY KNOWINGLY VIOLATED THE LAW.

Edited by IamsSon, 29 January 2010 - 01:52 AM.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#7    Mattshark

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 01:52 AM

View PostIamsSon, on 29 January 2010 - 01:51 AM, said:

A legal request was made, and they actively and purposefully did not release the data.

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Yes I saw and I have told you why I think the judgement (meaningless as it is now anyway) is incorrect. The data is the property of the MET office not UEA and is available from them.

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#8    IamsSon

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 03:05 AM

View PostMattshark, on 29 January 2010 - 01:52 AM, said:

Yes I saw and I have told you why I think the judgement (meaningless as it is now anyway) is incorrect. The data is the property of the MET office not UEA and is available from them.

Fortunately, in this case, it's your opinion which is meaningless and incorrect.

You are refusing to see that these men were not acting like proper scientists, which just makes you look as corrupt as them.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#9    Michelle

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 03:54 AM

View PostIamsSon, on 29 January 2010 - 03:05 AM, said:

Fortunately, in this case, it's your opinion which is meaningless and incorrect.

You are refusing to see that these men were not acting like proper scientists, which just makes you look as corrupt as them.

Don't be too hard on him, Iams...it's the world's newest religion and he's been brainwashed like the rest of you. :unsure2:

:lol:  ;)


#10    Mattshark

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 01:36 PM

View PostMichelle, on 29 January 2010 - 03:54 AM, said:

Don't be too hard on him, Iams...it's the world's newest religion and he's been brainwashed like the rest of you. :unsure2:

:lol:  ;)
Or it could be that I know a lot more about it than either you or Iams.

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#11    IamsSon

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 02:14 PM

View PostMattshark, on 29 January 2010 - 01:36 PM, said:

Or it could be that I know a lot more about it than either you or Iams.

Did the ICO decide they failed to follow FOIA?

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#12    Mattshark

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 02:38 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 29 January 2010 - 02:14 PM, said:

Did the ICO decide they failed to follow FOIA?
Did I argue that? No. I said their conclusion was wrong. You question is meaningless and is not what I am discussing.

Edited by Mattshark, 29 January 2010 - 02:40 PM.

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#13    Moon Monkey

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 02:45 PM

View PostMattshark, on 29 January 2010 - 01:36 PM, said:

Or it could be that I know a lot more about it than either you or Iams.
Ohhh, listen to her.....gets an MSc in animalology and suddenly he is an expert to be listened to on both climate and law.

Edited by Moon Monkey, 29 January 2010 - 02:46 PM.


#14    IamsSon

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 05:15 PM

View PostMattshark, on 29 January 2010 - 02:38 PM, said:

Did I argue that? No. I said their conclusion was wrong. You question is meaningless and is not what I am discussing.

When did you acquire your law degree? Were you part of the investigation?

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#15    Mattshark

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 06:28 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 29 January 2010 - 05:15 PM, said:

When did you acquire your law degree? Were you part of the investigation?
Irrelevant (although my best mate has one) and irrelevant.

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