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Iran massing troops on Iraq border


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#1    DC09

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 12:29 AM

Beirut, Lebanon, Jun. 15 (UPI) -- Iran reportedly is readying troops to move into Iraq if U.S. troops pull out, leaving a security vacuum.

The Saudi daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat, monitored in Beirut, reports Iran has massed four battalions at the border.

Al-Sharq al-Awsat quoted "reliable Iraqi sources" as saying, "Iran moved part of its regular military forces towards the Iraqi border in the southern sector at a time its military intelligence agents were operating inside Iraqi territory."

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#2    Talon

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 12:34 AM

If they do move against Iraq is gives the US the perfect opertunity to attack Iran, take out another member of the Axis of evil, without being blamed for invading without provication  grin2.gif .

Although more likely due to the anti-war sentiment, the US will sit back and let Iran absorb Iraq. Dear god, thats all we need, an even larger Iran.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#3    jenk

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 12:37 AM

    What a sad world we live in sad.gif .....

"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yeild to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." Winston Churchill

#4    DC09

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 12:39 AM

QUOTE
If they do move against Iraq is gives the US the perfect opertunity to attack Iran, take out another member of the Axis of evil, without being blamed for invading without provication  grin2.gif .


Yep.  thumbsup.gif

QUOTE
Although more likely due to the anti-war sentiment, the US will sit back and let Iran absorb Iraq.


Unfortunately, you might be right... If Kerry gets elected president I know you'll be right.  rolleyes.gif

*sigh*


#5    Fenris

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 07:09 AM

Not that I'm a cynic or anything tongue.gif

But that could be just what the US government could want. They are in a no win situation in Iraq, if they stay, the resistance will continue, american troops continue to get killed, opinion of the government both home and abroad continues to be erroded. If they go, there will undoubtably be a bloody civil war with several factions vieing for power. Again they look bad and large portions of their public will castigate them.... the proverbial 'between a rock and a hard place'

If the US pull out and Iran invades, the US gets chance to cast itself in the light of "Good guy" - "We where just trying to protect Iraq" which is bull but a lot of gullable folks (Like republican voters for instance) would swallow it.

Knowing there is no stomach for further war with most of the US public, they can hide behind the UN (Which they do when it suits them, ignoring the UN when iit doesn't!) saying "We got pilloried for going it alone last time, we will only be involved if you are"

I can see the whitehouse PRAYING that Iran does something that stupid..... it gets them right off the hook!

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
.........................

#6    Erikl

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 09:25 AM

Seems like the Ayatolas are trying to get back at the Iraqis... and they have many reasons to do so:

1. Ideology - Baghdad was the capital of the great Shiite caliphate in medieval timers, and which was a Persian empire.

2. Religion - Shiia's most sacred cities are in Iraq.

3. Economy - the unification of Iraqi oil fields and Iranian oil fields will make Iran the biggest oil producer in the world - bigger than Saudi Arabia.

4. Territory - the Iranians lost territory in the Iran-Iraq war of the 80s.

5. Demography - of 20 million Iraqis, 12 milion, or 60% of the population, is Shiite.
The unification of Arab Shiites and Iranian Shiites will create a huge Shiite empire - almost 90 milion Shiites!
This will make Iran the biggest country in the Middle-East in terms of trritory and demography (leaving Turkey in the second place and Egypt in the third place), which will give it a huge diplomatic leverage.

Anyhow, this is too much "Tom Clancy like".... maybe this will cause peace between all Arab states and Israel, just like Clancy predicts...

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#7    joc

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE
If the US pull out and Iran invades, the US gets chance to cast itself in the light of "Good guy" - "We where just trying to protect Iraq" which is bull but a lot of gullable folks (Like republican voters for instance) would swallow it.


Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Gulp............ahhhhhhhhhhhhh....that was good...yum tongue.gif

If I may, please allow me the opportunity  to analogize the current world events, with respect to the middle east, with a more palpable flavour:  

On the eave of your house, just outside the front door,  is a huge yellow jackets nest.   The nest grew and grew and grew....you killed a few wasps when they got too close.   But one day your children were stung badly when the yellow jackets swarmed furiously.   You resolved therefore to 'take out the nest'.  You destroyed the nest and most of the wasps....many still swarm around in the trees though.

Now your children can play safely.......or can they.......no, they can't, because just around the corner of the house, on an adjacent eave hangs an even larger red wasp nest.....and what's more, on the back side of the house is a hive of 'killer bees'.    You want your children to be safe and never have to suffer the massive stinging of the past............what do you do?

You resolve....one way or the other....to take out all of the nests and destroy completely the threat.

thank-you

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#8    Stamford

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE
You resolve....one way or the other....to take out all of the nests and destroy completely the threat.


Ahhh, I love the smell of World War III in the morning.

Please explain to me, joc, how you propose to do the aforementioned?

Seeing as Iraq has now descended into a land of lawlessness, with a power vacum waiting to be filled by Islamic Extremism the minute we vacate, what would you suggest we do with Iran, the same?

Do we really want two volatile, unstable countries next to one another, rallying evey Islamic nut job from around the World?

Obviously occupation by an already overburdened and moral sapped US Army would be difficult to say the least.

Which would leave us with few other options......unless of course you are suggesting we nuke them, which you wouldn't do, would you joc?

We are already being criticised as undertaking a new crusade against the Muslim world, comments like yours seem to back this theory up!

Edited by Stamford, 16 June 2004 - 01:08 PM.

"The future's uncertain and the end is always near."

Jim Morrison

"When you laugh about people, so very, very lonely their only desire is to die, well I'm afraid it doesn't make me smile. I wish I could laugh. But that joke isn't funny anymore, it's too close to home and it's too near the bone... "

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#9    joc

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 01:18 PM

QUOTE
Seeing as Iraq has now descended into a land of lawlessness, with a power vacum waiting to be filled by Islamic Extremism the minute we vacate, what would you suggest we do with Iran, the same?


It only seems that way because you gobble up every word of the biased liberal press!    The truth is far different.    And much better....not just better sounding....better.   You cannot compare Iraq in its current condition to the way we all live in our countries.   You must compare Iraq in its current condition to the Iraq of Saddam Hussein.  Put down the joint for a moment dude and contemplate the obvious.........we are winning! tongue.gif  

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now i know that light is old and stars are cold

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#10    Stamford

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 01:37 PM

QUOTE
Put down the joint for a moment dude and contemplate the obvious.........we are winning!


Thanks for putting me straight joc:

The joint is now out.

I have disconnected my TV.

Stopped reading news papers.

And am now receiving my news updates from 'Planet Joc' the non-biased, non-liberal information service.

Still, if I might consult you on one question, oh wise sage, you completely ignored my question regarding Iran.

In your own time.


"The future's uncertain and the end is always near."

Jim Morrison

"When you laugh about people, so very, very lonely their only desire is to die, well I'm afraid it doesn't make me smile. I wish I could laugh. But that joke isn't funny anymore, it's too close to home and it's too near the bone... "

The Smiths

#11    bathory

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE
Seeing as Iraq has now descended into a land of lawlessness, with a power vacum waiting to be filled by Islamic Extremism the minute we vacate, what would you suggest we do with Iran, the same?


i think generally speaking, Iraq has improved greatly (take into consideration its still a work in progress), we have to remember that the media is only giving major coverage to the negative aspects such as attacks, instead of presenting stories on how there are more schools etc being built because of the occupation


#12    Fenris

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 01:46 PM

joc,
It is you that is lapping up every idioting, jingoistic slant that fits with your warped point of view.... the reality on the ground in Iraq is a total MESS. Yes even compaired to under Saddam's reign..... it isn't as bad as immediatly following the American occupation, where the rule of law totaly broke down and anything that wasn't nailed down got looted. But still, even now, the everyday Iraqi is in more danger of .... Being shot by the so called liberators.... Being blown up or shot by so called freedom fighters (Terrorists).... being mugged, raped, stolen from because the police forces are only just barely functional. Sure they have more political freedom, aledgedly... so long as they adopt a form of government that the Americans want rather than the fundamentalist muslim government that undoubtably has the popular public support in their country! But life of the average Iraqi is WORSE, not better since the war.

STOP EATING THE MUSHROOMS! or have you been on the Peyote again?

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
.........................

#13    bathory

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 04:12 PM

QUOTE
But life of the average Iraqi is WORSE, not better since the war.


care to support that?


#14    Fenris

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 05:02 PM

QUOTE (bathory @ Jun 16 2004, 05:12 PM)
QUOTE
But life of the average Iraqi is WORSE, not better since the war.


care to support that?

Try watching some independant news rather than one that has to keep the whitehouse placated! I did support it with the statements I made about being shot/blown up by either side (Are you disputing that?) and the inefficent state of law enforcement (How about that?) both those have been clearly shown and those are just two, there are plenty more!

In the dead of night
A shimmewin' wight
Gweem of a bwade
And dah devew was paid
When dah axe comes down
A chiwin' sound
Steel hits da head
Anothaw wabbit's dead
I'm a wabbit swayer
A guitaw pwayaw
With a nasty habbit

Kill dah wabbit!!! (hah hah hah)
AhhhaahooOhhh

I'm a mean mistweetah
A wabbit feastah
And I pwedict
A bwoody Eastaw
A scuwowing shadow
And dah shadow was dis wabbit
And dah night air echoes
Kill dah wabbit!!!
Kill dah wabbit!!!
.........................

#15    Fluffybunny

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 07:01 PM

QUOTE (joc @ Jun 16 2004, 06:18 AM)
You cannot compare Iraq in its current condition to the way we all live in our countries.   You must compare Iraq in its current condition to the Iraq of Saddam Hussein.

I think that you are right in that aspect joc, you can't make comparisons between our conditions to theirs, it isn't fair. In my opinion I don't think the life of an Iraqi citizen is better than it was under saddam. Could it be in the future? hopefully it will, but as Bathory said this is a work in progress and only time will tell. I think that we can't really claim that we have won anything until Iraq is stable and have a government in place that suits our needs.

If we leave Iraq and it devolves into what it was before we liberated them, well in my opinion it was all a failure at that point. Right now it is too early to put a checkmark in the win column, sorry. Just getting saddam out is great, but there are several just like him waiting to take his place, and unless we have long term positive results in Iraq, the whole mission would be a failure.

I read somewhere years ago a joke about how the news never reports on planes that land safely, or houses that don't burn. It isn't a newsworthy event, and as news programs have to fight for ratings like every other show in the world, they are going to follow the stories that have the biggest impact on viewers. Dying soldiers will get a headline every time over a newly built schoolhouse. I hope joc that you realize that a bias can run both ways in news reporting. I would hope that you realize that Rush has as much of an agenda in the news he reports as does any liberal news media outlet. If you think that your news sources are the only real truth out there, you are mistaken.

Are there enough positive schoolhouse type events that don't get covered to outweigh all the death and destruction? I don’t know for sure, but my opinion is no, not yet. There are definite positive steps being taken to establish an infrastructure that will benefit the citizens in Iraq. I read yesterday that Iraqi citizens are frustrated with the slow pace of reconstruction of the infrastructure [Hint: stop kidnapping and killing the contractors sent there to help you…], as well as the general lawlessness that is going on in the country.

As for Iran, I think that even as much as they outwardly protested our liberation of Iraq, they were privately throwing parties (with little umbrellas in their drinks) because we did in a short time what they had failed to do for so long. Once we leave the region they know that Iraq will be easily influenced and infiltrated. I am sure that they are chomping at the bit to get their hands on the oil fields of Iraq.


Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.




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