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Becoming vegetarian can harm the environment


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#91    Cybele

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:17 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 February 2010 - 11:59 AM, said:

In order to maintain a healthy diet you need to understand your nutritional requirements. Rickets is a disease of Vit, D deficiency and since you derive almost none of your vitamin D from food your choice of diet is not a factor. Vit. D is manufactured in the skin on exposure to UV light and you get enough if you get enough sunlight. Many dark skinned people who migrate to Northern Latitudes become Vit. D deficient because their skin is specifically adapted to reduce their exposure to that self same UV.

But the Inuit do not have light skin and are able to live quite comfortably at northern latitudes. I thought this had something to do with their diet being high in cold water fish which contain high amounts of vitamin D.

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#92    Sherapy

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 05:35 AM

As a vegan , devout yes one of those, yet, I agree with a lot of you on here..

Matty, I think you make a good point its not any healthier to not eat meat because of some higher moral ground..

Sort of defeats the purpose...to stigmatize meat eaters...

I think diet is personal and if one eats meat or not they can do it in a way that is environmentally sound and do......


I do not eat tofu, I agree with Br Cornelius many go veggie and try to mimic meat recipes...Wahts the point why not just eat meat....

I never liked meat as a kid, or milk or dairy, I rarely ate as a kid and teen......Now I eat.....I am one of those that does better on a grains, veggie's, fruits and legumes diet..


I also live in an area that can supports this lifestyle one has to think of that too..


any diet is ok as long as its balanced ..there are unhealthy vegans also ..

I know many who want to be veggies and it just couldn't work for them.



My kids eat meat so does my hubby ..I do not impose a vegan diet on my kids , i just encourage a diet that is balanced.....

As far as who is smarter or not of course diet plays a part, but so does environment and genes and I know Matty would agree.....
I was told by my oncologist that exercise and keeping ones weight normal is far more important to ones health then if they eat meat or not....

the key is moderation...:w00t:


#93    Michelle

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:04 AM

View PostS♥ ♥ ♥, on 15 February 2010 - 05:35 AM, said:

I also live in an area that can supports this lifestyle one has to think of that too..


Are you referring to the tiny, little towns that are surrounded by thousands of acres of farms, the medium sized towns with several farmers markets and grocery stores or the big cities that have huge supermarkets full of produce along with farmers markets? :w00t:

Edited by Michelle, 15 February 2010 - 06:52 AM.


#94    Sherapy

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:56 AM

View PostMichelle, on 15 February 2010 - 06:04 AM, said:

Are you referring to the tiny, little towns that are surrounded by thousands of acres of farms, the medium sized towns with several farmers markets or the big cities that have huge supermarkets full of produce? :w00t:



:w00t:

beautiful ocean town baby, with farmers markers and huge supermarkets full of produce year round...that I ride my bike too...tee hee...ya know the ole light carbon footprint trip...tee hee..



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Edited by S♥ ♥ ♥, 15 February 2010 - 06:58 AM.


#95    Michelle

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:14 AM

View PostS♥ ♥ ♥, on 15 February 2010 - 06:56 AM, said:

:w00t:

beautiful ocean town baby, with farmers markers and huge supermarkets full of produce year round...that I ride my bike too...tee hee...ya know the ole light carbon footprint trip...tee hee..

Posted Image

It's sooo cute that you think you are one of the few places that have fresh produce year round. I bet some of the farmers markets in your area sell pineapples, like they raised them, even when they are out of season...just like they do here with other kinds of produce.

Don't feel bad...a lot of people don't know that the majority of what is sold in farmers markets came from the same place the grocery stores and restaurants get them....around the world :tu:


#96    danielost

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:21 AM

View PostCybele, on 15 February 2010 - 04:01 AM, said:

Actually, the vast majority of adults on the planet are lactose intolerant to some degree. Northern Europeans and a few traditionally cow herding tribes in Africa, such as the Masai and Nuer, are exceptions. It's a genetic trait that is not dependent on arbitrary decisions to "stop using milk". The fact that the gene is so prevalent in people of Northern European descent probably does mean that it confers a survival advantage in higher latitudes.


as i said we humans are supposed to stop producing the enzime for lactose at 5.

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#97    Sherapy

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:28 AM

View PostMichelle, on 15 February 2010 - 07:14 AM, said:

It's sooo cute that you think you are one of the few places that have fresh produce year round. I bet some of the farmers markets in your area sell pineapples, like they raised them, even when they are out of season...just like they do here with other kinds of produce.

Don't feel bad...a lot of people don't know that the majority of what is sold in farmers markets came from the same place the grocery stores and restaurants get them....around the world :tu:

My neighbors Mexico don't forget (in supermarkets).......


now farmers markets only feature local grown seasonal fruits and veggies( you assume I meant otherwise) jumpin the haten on S.. gun are ya Michelle ..... ........thanks doll but I got this one...tee hee..Sort of goes with the vegan lifestyle...:wub:

Its warm year round here so 'seasonally" compatible I can get fresh year round....sorry hun comes with the sunny lifestyle.....

Edited by S♥ ♥ ♥, 15 February 2010 - 07:33 AM.


#98    Michelle

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:39 AM

View PostS♥ ♥ ♥, on 15 February 2010 - 07:28 AM, said:

My neighbors Mexico don't forget (in supermarkets).......


now farmers markets only feature local grown seasonal fruits and veggies( you assume I meant otherwise) jumpin the haten on S.. gun are ya Michelle ..... ........thanks doll but I got this one...tee hee..Sort of goes with the vegan lifestyle...:wub:

Its warm year round here so 'seasonally" compatible I can get fresh year round....sorry hun comes with the sunny lifestyle.....

P T Barnum said there is one born every minute.

Whatever makes you happy, dear...bless your little heart.


#99    Sherapy

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 08:09 AM

View PostMichelle, on 15 February 2010 - 07:39 AM, said:

P T Barnum said there is one born every minute.

Whatever makes you happy, dear...bless your little heart.

And I supposed to believe that you know the farmers market I go to better then I do..when you post a saying that the person never said..hahahahahahaha :rofl:

Okay doll ..... perhaps one should learn what it is they are trying to teach before they teach it......


"There's a sucker born every minute" is a phrase often credited to P.T. Barnum (1810 1891), an American showman. It is generally taken to mean that there are (and always will be) a lot of gullible people in the world.



When Barnum's biographer tried to track down when Barnum had uttered this phrase, all of Barnum's friends and acquaintances told him it was out of character. Barnum's credo was more along the lines of "there's a customer born every minute" he wanted to find ways to draw new customers in all the time because competition was fierce and people could become bored easily.[citation needed]

While some sources claim the quote is most likely from famous con-man Joseph ("Paper Collar Joe") Bessimer,[1], other sources say it was actually uttered by David Hannum, spoken in reference to Barnum's part in the Cardiff Giant hoax. Hannum, who was exhibiting the "original" giant and had unsuccessfully sued Barnum for exhibiting a copy and claiming it was the original, was referring to the crowds continuing to pay to see Barnum's exhibit even after both it and the original had been proven to be fakes.

In turn, Barnum's fellow circus owner and arch-rival Adam Forepaugh attributed the quote to Barnum in a newspaper interview in an attempt to discredit him. However, Barnum never denied making the quote. It is said that he thanked Forepaugh for the free publicity he had given him.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia....rn_every_minute


#100    Marby

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 09:02 AM

I knew the resident vegan would weigh in eventually.  :D

I don't really have anything to add in regard to why I prefer a diet that involves eating meat, but I do have to mention a few things about farmer's markets and lactose intolerance.

For one, that's great that you have a farmer's market to go to, S... (how do you make the little hearts?). We live in a medieval market town that's had market day every Thursday since the 1300's. OK, maybe it wasn't on Thursdays in 1340, but who knows? Anyway, while the modern farmer's market may have goods available that aren't necessarily local, it isn't as though they don't! Let's not get cynical about it because they are the best places to get locally grown produce. Let's face it, if I want strawberries in the middle of winter, I'm not going to wait until Thursday to see if they are at the market. I'll go to Tesco. If I want fresh meats and veg from down the road, I wait until Thursday and get it in town.

I don't know if this is a confession after all we were saying regarding supplements, but I do take a lactose enzyme that enables me to have dairy. I discovered the hard and painful way when I was 27 that I am lactose intolerant. This is a natural state for the person whose background is centered in the warmer climes. The state of not being intolerant is a genetic variation that people in colder climates adapted in order to cope with harsh winters. This brings me to another point regarding diet.

Not that long ago, my husband and I were hooked on this program where a bunch of athletic guys went around the world to compete in tribal tests of strength/sport/games. "Toughest Man" or something like that. One of the guys was a vegan. One of the challenges took place in Siberia, and when they got there, the tribal leader warned him that eating meat was the only way a person could manage in their climate, doing the physical work that they do. So the first night, when they were passing around this bowl of reindeer offal, and he refused to eat it, he was told that he might not be allowed to participate. And he was cut out before they got into it for this reason because he couldn't cope in the high altitude doing the work that they needed to do. He never even got to compete. My memory is a bit hazy here, but there were quite a few competitions in which he fell short for this reason. Nature has adapted to allow people in harsh climates to take in animal protein (milk) when meat might not otherwise be available for a reason.

Again, I feel I have to stress that I am not worried about what other people choose to eat, nor do I judge people based on this. I don't appreciate people judging me for eating meat after all. But, there is something to that. I saw it on a smaller scale with my own body first hand, and I am a lactose intolerant, warm climate adapted individual. I'm certainly not out wrestling reindeer and traipsing through the Himalayas either.


#101    Sherapy

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 05:27 PM

View PostMarby, on 15 February 2010 - 09:02 AM, said:

I knew the resident vegan would weigh in eventually. :D

I don't really have anything to add in regard to why I prefer a diet that involves eating meat, but I do have to mention a few things about farmer's markets and lactose intolerance.

For one, that's great that you have a farmer's market to go to, S... (how do you make the little hearts?). We live in a medieval market town that's had market day every Thursday since the 1300's. OK, maybe it wasn't on Thursdays in 1340, but who knows? Anyway, while the modern farmer's market may have goods available that aren't necessarily local, it isn't as though they don't! Let's not get cynical about it because they are the best places to get locally grown produce. Let's face it, if I want strawberries in the middle of winter, I'm not going to wait until Thursday to see if they are at the market. I'll go to Tesco. If I want fresh meats and veg from down the road, I wait until Thursday and get it in town.

I don't know if this is a confession after all we were saying regarding supplements, but I do take a lactose enzyme that enables me to have dairy. I discovered the hard and painful way when I was 27 that I am lactose intolerant. This is a natural state for the person whose background is centered in the warmer climes. The state of not being intolerant is a genetic variation that people in colder climates adapted in order to cope with harsh winters. This brings me to another point regarding diet.

Not that long ago, my husband and I were hooked on this program where a bunch of athletic guys went around the world to compete in tribal tests of strength/sport/games. "Toughest Man" or something like that. One of the guys was a vegan. One of the challenges took place in Siberia, and when they got there, the tribal leader warned him that eating meat was the only way a person could manage in their climate, doing the physical work that they do. So the first night, when they were passing around this bowl of reindeer offal, and he refused to eat it, he was told that he might not be allowed to participate. And he was cut out before they got into it for this reason because he couldn't cope in the high altitude doing the work that they needed to do. He never even got to compete. My memory is a bit hazy here, but there were quite a few competitions in which he fell short for this reason. Nature has adapted to allow people in harsh climates to take in animal protein (milk) when meat might not otherwise be available for a reason.

Again, I feel I have to stress that I am not worried about what other people choose to eat, nor do I judge people based on this. I don't appreciate people judging me for eating meat after all. But, there is something to that. I saw it on a smaller scale with my own body first hand, and I am a lactose intolerant, warm climate adapted individual. I'm certainly not out wrestling reindeer and traipsing through the Himalayas either.

Indeed, farmers markets that I've been too In Ca.. typically feature locally grown seasonal fruits and veggies......
year round...

If you want a pineapple/papaya you go to whole foods...

Of course a vender could sell cantaloupes in dec, if they wanted, I just haven't seen it...


As you diet is personal and a meat is eater is no less worthy then a veggie eater...

you bring in great points...


#102    Marby

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 05:37 PM

View PostS♥ ♥ ♥, on 15 February 2010 - 05:27 PM, said:

Indeed, farmers markets that I've been too In Ca.. typically feature locally grown seasonal fruits and veggies......
year round...

If you want a pineapple/papaya you go to whole foods...

Of course a vender could sell cantaloupes in dec, if they wanted, I just haven't seen it...


As you diet is personal and a meat is eater is no less worthy then a veggie eater...

you bring in great points...

Thanks.

Exactly. I think that is it a bit silly to dismiss the farmer's market just because someone might be selling something that isn't locally grown. The entire point of the farmer's market is for the locals to sell what they raise and grow and that is what you get. Why throw the baby out with the bath water?


#103    Michelle

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:27 PM

View PostMarby, on 15 February 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

Thanks.

Exactly. I think that is it a bit silly to dismiss the farmer's market just because someone might be selling something that isn't locally grown. The entire point of the farmer's market is for the locals to sell what they raise and grow and that is what you get. Why throw the baby out with the bath water?

I was by no means dismissing farmers markets. I've owned/worked in restaurants my whole life, now have a B&B and have always tried to buy fresh, locally grown produce and meats. We've also grown shiitake mushrooms and sold them at farmers markets and to restaurants. I know the industry very well. I've seen the supply trucks unloaded and people putting them out as if they were their own and telling customers as much. The more variety in their merchandise the lesser the chance that they've grown it all. I usually buy from people that specialize in just a few items.

People also have misconceptions that small farmers don't use pesticides. Small farmers, especially, can't afford to lose produce to pests. It's like the organic 'label'. We were going to get our mushrooms certified organic, we did grow them organically, until we found out what a farce it is. It costs hundreds of dollars to get certified and they don't do any inspections at all. They come out, ask what you do about pests, take your money and never follow up. You can do anything you like from that moment on. That organic label can be taken with a grain of salt.


#104    Marby

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:33 PM

View PostMichelle, on 15 February 2010 - 06:27 PM, said:

I was by no means dismissing farmers markets. I've owned/worked in restaurants my whole life, now have a B&B and have always tried to buy fresh, locally grown produce and meats. We've also grown shiitake mushrooms and sold them at farmers markets and to restaurants. I know the industry very well. I've seen the supply trucks unloaded and people putting them out as if they were their own and telling customers as much. The more variety in their merchandise the lesser the chance that they've grown it all. I usually buy from people that specialize in just a few items.

People also have misconceptions that small farmers don't use pesticides. Small farmers, especially, can't afford to lose produce to pests. It's like the organic 'label'. We were going to get our mushrooms certified organic, we did grow them organically, until we found out what a farce it is. It costs hundreds of dollars to get certified and they don't do any inspections at all. They come out, ask what you do about pests, take your money and never follow up. You can do anything you like from that moment on. That organic label can be taken with a grain of salt.

Ah, gotcha. Personally, I'm not worried about whether something is organic or not. It is a pretty big scam. Maybe this is just me, but I really only go to my local farmer's market for the freshest stuff available, and to support the locals. I can't speak for all farmer's markets, but I know that at mine, the majority of the stuff is in season and quite literally, from down the road. Sure, there are some that do ship stuff in, but around here, it's pretty much known who does.


#105    danielost

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:39 PM

View PostMichelle, on 15 February 2010 - 06:27 PM, said:

I was by no means dismissing farmers markets. I've owned/worked in restaurants my whole life, now have a B&B and have always tried to buy fresh, locally grown produce and meats. We've also grown shiitake mushrooms and sold them at farmers markets and to restaurants. I know the industry very well. I've seen the supply trucks unloaded and people putting them out as if they were their own and telling customers as much. The more variety in their merchandise the lesser the chance that they've grown it all. I usually buy from people that specialize in just a few items.

People also have misconceptions that small farmers don't use pesticides. Small farmers, especially, can't afford to lose produce to pests. It's like the organic 'label'. We were going to get our mushrooms certified organic, we did grow them organically, until we found out what a farce it is. It costs hundreds of dollars to get certified and they don't do any inspections at all. They come out, ask what you do about pests, take your money and never follow up. You can do anything you like from that moment on. That organic label can be taken with a grain of salt.


that organic label is so the customer can be charged more.  one other thing i find disturbing is that a cup of coffee has more posion in it than an apple with pestides on it.

Edited by danielost, 15 February 2010 - 06:41 PM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.




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