50 replies to this topic

[illuminol]

Most Etymologists agree that the word 'matter' is a derivitive of the latin word 'mater' meaning mother. How did this happen? and how does this relate to the word 'pattern' which is derived from the latin word for father?  Deliberate or meaningful co-incidence?

[SlimJim22]

illuminol, on 15 February 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

Most Etymologists agree that the word 'matter' is a derivitive of the latin word 'mater' meaning mother. How did this happen? and how does this relate to the word 'pattern' which is derived from the latin word for father?  Deliberate or meaningful co-incidence?

I've been thinking about the significance of this for a while too. In sanskrit it is mata. Now you can't get much closer than that and as I understand it is a pretty old language.

Father for me rings of P'tah, the original egyptian god. I hadn't thought of pattern but saw the word it particle.

When looking for these links online there is a problem in that what is written is always very convincing because they don't give the other side of the argument. However, I think there are significant coincidences linking disparate cultures together. Then again I am not a linguistical expert so conclude that I may be seeing what I want to see.

[Mattshark]

illuminol, on 15 February 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

Most Etymologists agree that the word 'matter' is a derivitive of the latin word 'mater' meaning mother. How did this happen? and how does this relate to the word 'pattern' which is derived from the latin word for father?  Deliberate or meaningful co-incidence?

No they don't, this was pointed out in another thread.

[illuminol]

Mattshark, on 15 February 2010 - 09:48 PM, said:

No they don't, this was pointed out in another thread.

Listen matt, you haven't done any research and you aren't interested in this subject. You  just want to argue.  It wasn't 'pointed out' in another thread, it was deemed 'bafflegap' and backed up by 'logitalk'. I left that thread because i was attacked with a barrage of insults and so started this one as a topic. This is a thread for people who are interested in exploring the symbolic connection of the word 'matter' which is derived from the word 'materia' which in turn is derived from the word 'mater' latin for mother. As you can see, slimjim also has an interest in metaphysical symbolism. I don't want a repeat of what happened on the other thread so just leave it at. No offense.

[Mattshark]

illuminol, on 15 February 2010 - 10:35 PM, said:

Listen matt, you haven't done any research and you aren't interested in this subject. You  just want to argue.  It wasn't 'pointed out' in another thread, it was deemed 'bafflegap' and backed up by 'logitalk'. I left that thread because i was attacked with a barrage of insults and so started this one as a topic. This is a thread for people who are interested in exploring the symbolic connection of the word 'matter' which is derived from the word 'materia' which in turn is derived from the word 'mater' latin for mother. As you can see, slimjim also has an interest in metaphysical symbolism. I don't want a repeat of what happened on the other thread so just leave it at. No offense.

No, you are starting with a false premise, you are claiming that what you want to accept is accepted and it most certainly is not, nor is it the prevalent view point. You are deliberately misinforming to promote your own view and that instantly scuppers your own arguments. If you want to believe it is of that origin fine, but don't pretend it is accepted academically when it is not.

You may not want to address the etymology that is more favoured, but if you don't it leaves your thread rather legless.

Edited by Mattshark, 15 February 2010 - 10:59 PM.

[illuminol]

SlimJim22, on 15 February 2010 - 09:47 PM, said:

I've been thinking about the significance of this for a while too. In sanskrit it is mata. Now you can't get much closer than that and as I understand it is a pretty old language.

Father for me rings of P'tah, the original egyptian god. I hadn't thought of pattern but saw the word it particle.

When looking for these links online there is a problem in that what is written is always very convincing because they don't give the other side of the argument. However, I think there are significant coincidences linking disparate cultures together. Then again I am not a linguistical expert so conclude that I may be seeing what I want to see.

  Maybe this a new area of investigation!?  I actually like that there is not much information online because I'm one to encourage myself and others to use their own intuition when it comes to a subject like this.
I've been thinking about this for some time and i had to ask, how did the word we use for what everything is made of come to be rooted in a word that meant mother?  is it deliberate? who chose it if anyone? and the metaphysical symbolism is wonderful!
I had no idea that it was so close in structure to the sanscrit word!  How did it come about!
I've been toying with the idea of matter as symbolic of the feminine nature of substance and of the masculine nature of the molecular 'patterns' that give form to matter.

Edited by illuminol, 15 February 2010 - 11:06 PM.

[illuminol]

Mattshark, on 15 February 2010 - 10:54 PM, said:

No, you are starting with a false premise, you are claiming that what you want to accept is accepted and it most certainly is not, nor is it the prevalent view point. You are deliberately misinforming to promote your own view and that instantly scuppers your own arguments. If you want to believe it is of that origin fine, but don't pretend it is accepted academically when it is not.

You may not want to address the etymology that is more favoured, but if you don't it leaves your thread rather legless.

How is it false. no logitalk please. just show me your evidence. because EVERY etymological reference connects it to the root word 'mater'. what is the prevalent viewpoint. show it to me. show me how the root word is not mater. show me there is no connection either etymologically or symbolically.  The underlying principal of this discussion is metaphysical, and metaphysical discussion requires an experimental mind.

Edited by illuminol, 15 February 2010 - 11:13 PM.

[illuminol]

SlimJim22, on 15 February 2010 - 09:47 PM, said:

I've been thinking about the significance of this for a while too. In sanskrit it is mata. Now you can't get much closer than that and as I understand it is a pretty old language.

Father for me rings of P'tah, the original egyptian god. I hadn't thought of pattern but saw the word it particle.

It seems resonant of the 'all is one' concept. Which was first established in ancient indian philosophy?, perhaps it came from the sanscrit 'mata' first!

Edited by illuminol, 15 February 2010 - 11:47 PM.

[SlimJim22]

illuminol, on 15 February 2010 - 11:36 PM, said:

It seems resonant of the 'all is one' concept. Which was first established in ancient indian philosophy?, perhaps it came from the sanscrit 'mata' first!

It seems quite likely. How about Adam and atom and also Aton? It might be stretching it a bit... Heliopolis was called ON similar to one and lots of words sound a bit like Jon like aeon and ion.

[Mattshark]

illuminol, on 15 February 2010 - 11:09 PM, said:

How is it false. no logitalk please. just show me your evidence. because EVERY etymological reference connects it to the root word 'mater'. what is the prevalent viewpoint. show it to me. show me how the root word is not mater. show me there is no connection either etymologically or symbolically.  The underlying principal of this discussion is metaphysical, and metaphysical discussion requires an experimental mind.

I did in the previous thread, I linked you to an etymology dictionary.

No science requires an experimental mind, metaphysics requires nothing but imagination.

You are asking me to prove a negative and that is not possible.

You are however correct about pattern, though its common use derived from its original use in knitting.

Edited by Mattshark, 15 February 2010 - 11:56 PM.

[Mattshark]

SlimJim22, on 15 February 2010 - 11:46 PM, said:

It seems quite likely. How about Adam and atom and also Aton? It might be stretching it a bit... Heliopolis was called ON similar to one and lots of words sound a bit like Jon like aeon and ion.

That is from the Greek Atomus mate, meaning uncut. It came at a time when it was thought the atom was the smallest unit.
John is traditionally spelt John, Jon is generally used as a shortening of Jonathan.
Ion is actually Greek, means to go and was first used as its current meaning by Faraday.

Edited by Mattshark, 15 February 2010 - 11:55 PM.

[illuminol]

Mattshark, on 15 February 2010 - 11:49 PM, said:

I did in the previous thread, I linked you to an etymology dictionary.

No science requires an experimental mind, metaphysics requires nothing but imagination.

You are asking me to prove a negative and that is not possible.

You are however correct about pattern, though its common use derived from its original use in knitting.

yes, and as i said, i looked at the link, and its just one paragraph. here is another more concise dictionary...it includes your link and lists another version of the words origin thus the confusion... 'derivative of mater'. so unless you can show something that says it isn't, i'm going with my instincts and all the other listings that note the root word being 'mater'...and take the 'perhaps' as a positive

the full page version with the origin section

Edited by illuminol, 16 February 2010 - 09:32 AM.

[illuminol]

There are so many links, here are four, i will post more. don't know where to start.


root words

more on the root word 'mater'

My link

My link

I haven't scratched the surface.  the root word for matter, is mother. Now how did it come about that the latin word for 'mother' became the root word for 'matter' How did this meaningful connection occur? what are the metaphysical implications? It seems to have happened around the thirteenth century. I am searching for information on the sanscrit 'mata' right now...seems to be from the 4th century.

Edited by illuminol, 16 February 2010 - 10:45 AM.

[Emma_Acid]

Right fine, "matter" and "mother" have similar roots. Many many many words have similar roots, and etymology isn't as simply as just saying "this word comes straight from that, therefore they are directly related".

Whats your point?

Edited by Emma_Acid, 16 February 2010 - 12:12 PM.

[illuminol]

Emma_Acid, on 16 February 2010 - 12:12 PM, said:

Right fine, "matter" and "mother" have similar roots. Many many many words have similar roots, and etymology isn't as simply as just saying "this word comes straight from that, therefore they are directly related".

Whats your point?

  That's right! many many words have the same root source, but the word i'm interested in, in this case is 'matter' because its everything around us, and it's what we're made of.
There's an intelligence there, like a hidden secret that matter is 'mother' of everything.
And to add to the fun connection, it depends on how matter is arranged - the pattern of matter, through which diverse forms evolve. Pattern is from the latin for father, so there's a syncronicity happening that symbolically reflects many many myths and also appears to be in harmony with laws of nature, of physics.