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End of the World: 2012 vs. 2060


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Poll: End of the World: 2012 vs. 2060 (74 member(s) have cast votes)

When will the end come?

  1. 2012 (7 votes [9.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.46%

  2. 2060 (3 votes [4.05%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.05%

  3. They are both wrong. (64 votes [86.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 86.49%

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#16    zenfahr

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 05:40 PM

View PostSlimJim22, on 24 February 2010 - 04:59 PM, said:

The only people saying the world will end in 2012 or anyother date in a literal sense are crack pot and unimaginative fringe authors. What is likely is that 2012 to 2060 will be a time of conflict of ideals if not nations, although friction between nations seems to be on the rise. Nostradamus was undoubtedly acquainted with Revelations so we can assume that he used it as a basis for his prophecy or they just happenned to coincide. There are striking similarities between the two and to me suggests we are approaching the End Times. Not end of world but end of an epoch. How it turns out I dunno? But in 2061 they'll probably make a film about it.

Common Slim you know it was you that voted 2012!!! admitt it!! Just kidding, would'nt want an old fashioned UM Lynching on our hands!!  Man Im so out of the loop these days, so just were does this new date of 2060 come into play?
And isn't there an actual astroid heading our way somewhere around the 2030s, that could actually swoop below our satilites?

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#17    TheSearcher

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 08:25 PM

View PostSlimJim22, on 24 February 2010 - 02:36 PM, said:

Searcher,
Nice link. I like JMJ and what was said is the same as what I've been saying i.e. start of new age - 'world' alignment with galactic centre. As far as the prophecies go, my sources aren't great but to my knowledge they don't include Von Daniken. I have seen the name Jose Arguelles but am not all that familiar with his position.

One of my sources for Pacal Votan - http://www.13moon.com/pacal%20link.htm

"His prophecy is said to mythically emanate through his "Telektonon" - the "Earth Spirit Speaking Tube" - an actual, physical tube that can be found today right where it was constructed long ago - at the bottom of the 9-storied Temple of the Inscriptions, Palenque - Chiapas, Mexico (shown above.) This sacred plaster tube which runs from above ground, all the way down 69 steps to the underground chamber which holds Pacal's huge limestone sarcophagus tomb, was actually responsible for the re-discovery of the tomb by archeologist Alberto Ruz on June 15th, 1952. After finding a small piece of this white tile tubing, Ruz led a 3 year excavation process, (beginning in 1949) resulting in the unearthing of this ancient prophet's stone haven." - Perhaps a bit pseudo science for you.

Here is a link for the 7 Prophecies I mentioned. I'm not saying I support them but I am aware of them. If you can evaluate the credentials of the authors that would be appreciated by all I am sure. - http://www.angelfire...prophecies.html

Hope that sheds light on what I was refering.

SlimJim, mate, allow me to enlighten you (pun intended  :devil: )

Your sources for Pacal Votan - http://www.13moon.com/pacal%20link.htm, confirm something I already thought. Your info about Pacal Votan, comes from one Hunbatz Men. People might recognize the name,  as he is a self-proclaimed Maya shaman, conducts tours of Chichen Itza and other Maya sites for foreigners wishing to learn about Maya spiritualism. His ideas are not those of traditional Maya, simply typical New Age spiritualism using Maya words.

Whoever he really is , he looks to be a busy guy . He has at least one book , a video , a Cosmic Mystery School that claims to have been started through the vision and direction of Hunbatz Men http://www.cosmicmysteries.com/

Prices start as low as $9.95/month or $99.95/year and includes a personal quartz crystal which has been blessed in sacred ceremony at a sacred pyramid site in Mexico, up to the delux Level Gold which includes, and I qoute :

Quote

Monthly Tax Deductible Contributions of $499.95 Receive:

   1. Free Quarterly teleconferences with Wisdom Elders who will share their ancient wisdom Teachings with us to raise the energy of Light on the Earth. (one of the featured elders will be Hunbatz Men).
   2. Free Monthly DVD or CD of teachings shared by the Cosmic Mysteries School and Wisdom Elders to raise the energy of Light on the Earth.
   3. The Huge Light Frequency Bonus of Books 1, 2 and 3 of "Mayan Solar Education", the oral teachings of Hunbatz Men by Patricia Morris Cardona.
   4. Monthly Healing Sessions with The Fire Priestess Healer, Patricia Morris Cardona.
   5. An opportunity to participate in 4 weekend seminars with The Cosmic Mysteries School.
   6. An opportunity to participate in a trip to a sacred site in the USA for ceremonial teachings.
   7. Your medicine pouch with your personal power animal symbol.
   8. Your personal bag of sacred copal incense used for cleansing and blessing harvested from Mexico.
   9. Your personal red headband for sacred ceremony which is traditionally used by the Maya in Mexico.
  10. Included at this level are quarterly personal ceremonies performed at the pyramid for you to bring healing or other positive requests to you
  11. An opportunity to participate in a spiritual adventure in Mexico to receive private group ceremonial instruction with our Mayan elder Hunbatz Men at the sacred pyramidal site of Lol Be.

Though this school is supposedly started by Hunbatz Men, it looks to be run by Patricia Morris Cardona and Daniel Cardona, who mention studying with a Swami and South American persons I have never heard of. They do mention studying with North American Pa'Ris'Ha, a Cherokee Elder.; Eagle Man, Oglala Sioux Elder; and Amylee, a Medicine Woman of the Oglala Sioux. The three latter ones are known conpeople.

Take, North American Pa'Ris'Ha, a Cherokee Elder for example. Her real name is Patricia Taylor and was sentenced (in 2005 I believe) for fraud in a phony enrollment scam where she laid claim to all the land of the old Louisiana Territory.

Eagle Man, the Oglala Sioux elder, has for real name Ed Mcgaa, is a lawyer posing as an elder, if I'm not mistaken.

Here's an interresting site for you http://www.newagefraud.org/index.html

Sorry mate, when it sounds like a con, smells like a con and looks like a con, it usuallly is.

The second page I open on your site and who do I find? Our good friend Dr. Jose Arguelles, the self-made avatar of Pakal Votan.

On the third page we find all the other new age ideas aboout 2012, from J.M. Jenkins to Carlos Barrios (another self-made Maya).

After that I've checked quickly and to be honest this site is a vehicle for Jose Arguelles, no more, no less. This is who he is.


On another matter, where are these 7 prophecies set in stone? Your site does not mention it anywhere. I would like to know who  translated the glyphs, on what building they were found etc. Cause otherwise, it's just a nice story, nothing else.

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#18    SlimJim22

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 09:23 PM

What would we do without you? The skeptical view is an essential process for all to discover their own feelings on these things. I admit there is a possibility that they are fraudsters. I do find it amuzing that skeptics love to put Von Daniken in there just to discredit anything else that is being discussed. Just as there is a possibility of fraud there is a chance that the people mentioned entirely believe everything they write about and feel that they are offering a genuine service that produces results. Sure, it could be put down to the placebo effect but there is just a slightest chance that they are right and the Mayanist scholars are wrong. History is not the full picture rather what the dominant forces allowed to be saved, the rest gets destroyed, corrupted or hidden. South America has  a lot of unexplored areas that could hold important clues but that's goign off the point. They are only committing a fraud if they are knowingly deceiving others. From what I have read they are not thus I see them as either misguided but harmless or the real deal and therefore worthy of $99.95 per annum. Check out this site on the Cordona's http://www.intermetu.../pdcardona.html

Beware of using Nu Age as an umbrella term. That is what is desired i.e. if this new age is BS then all of it must be. Consider writers on their merits and assess what resonates personally. If it doesn't hit the right note then fair enough there is plenty more to fill one's days. Assuming the world doesn't end of course.  :devil:

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#19    wolf23

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:48 PM

View PostAgent. Mulder, on 24 February 2010 - 01:15 AM, said:

yeeeah...the Mayans never said. ever.
newtons so called "predictions" mean nothing. and nostradomus and vague quatrains (very open to inrepretation) didnt predict it either.
but, seems everyones trying to connect dots here.

yes, the mayans did say, mr mulder.

But no it wasn't star alignments.   It was based on the geology of the planet, and the 5,200 year cycles it took, as they were able to discern by their advanced study of other planets and stars, by implementing a calendar which worked in an intricate and complex way, to determine that there would be, and i qoute the maya here    "A Formiddable Event."    Formiddable would be from the destruction of a lot of the surface, changing the face of the world as it did approximately 5,100 years ago, determined by the fact that at this time period, there was an event that took place, called a pole shift.

I live in new zealand, which is currently placed at the approximate latitude and longitude as the formerly Lush, and green Antarctica, or south pole, which appears to have shifted a distance from where it was to become the south pole, at around the time the maya long count calendar began.

True reference of realistic date: 21.12.3162

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#20    jholland

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:32 AM

View Postwolf23, on 24 February 2010 - 10:48 PM, said:

yes, the mayans did say, mr mulder.

"A Formiddable Event."

True reference of realistic date: 21.12.3162

Where did the Mayans say this? Please provide an example.

Please provide documentation of some sort of the Mayans describing "a formidable event".

What is the basis for the start of this "realistic date"?

View PostTheSearcher, on 24 February 2010 - 08:14 AM, said:

A catastrophy could allways happen, prophecy or not, that's not really an argument.

I'm not arguing. I'm attempting to bring focus to the difference between "the end of the world" and a catastrophe that would reduce the human population globally on a massive scale.

Global catastrophes have happened in our history. They have affected the human race on massive scales. Just because someone says "end of the world" making everything sound silly doesn't mean we should completely disregard it as mumbo jumbo. Take everything with a grain of salt. Disproving the unknown proves nothing more than we still don't know.

Edited by jholland, 25 February 2010 - 01:46 AM.

He also said, "The man who says, 'I may be wrong,' is always right; the man who says, 'I am certainly right,' is always wrong.  To avoid a fight is not cowardice, and to fight with the assurance of victory is not courage.

#21    Agent. Mulder

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 04:19 AM

View Postwolf23, on 24 February 2010 - 10:48 PM, said:

yes, the mayans did say, mr mulder.
But no it wasn't star alignments.   It was based on the geology of the planet, and the 5,200 year cycles it took, as they were able to discern by their advanced study of other planets and stars, by implementing a calendar which worked in an intricate and complex way, to determine that there would be, and i qoute the maya here    "A Formiddable Event."    Formiddable would be from the destruction of a lot of the surface, changing the face of the world as it did approximately 5,100 years ago, determined by the fact that at this time period, there was an event that took place, called a pole shift.

yeeeeah, they never did. unless you know something that ALL mayan historians dont.
do you?
stating "the end of a cycle" due to religious beliefs does not = "the end of the world". and how did the face of the world change in, what, 3090?

View Postwolf23, on 24 February 2010 - 10:48 PM, said:

I live in new zealand, which is currently placed at the approximate latitude and longitude as the formerly Lush, and green Antarctica, or south pole, which appears to have shifted a distance from where it was to become the south pole, at around the time the maya long count calendar began.
True reference of realistic date: 21.12.3162

yes, our continents have moved. your point?

the truth is out there....

#22    TheSearcher

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 06:44 AM

View PostSlimJim22, on 24 February 2010 - 09:23 PM, said:

What would we do without you? The skeptical view is an essential process for all to discover their own feelings on these things. I admit there is a possibility that they are fraudsters. I do find it amuzing that skeptics love to put Von Daniken in there just to discredit anything else that is being discussed. Just as there is a possibility of fraud there is a chance that the people mentioned entirely believe everything they write about and feel that they are offering a genuine service that produces results. Sure, it could be put down to the placebo effect but there is just a slightest chance that they are right and the Mayanist scholars are wrong. History is not the full picture rather what the dominant forces allowed to be saved, the rest gets destroyed, corrupted or hidden. South America has  a lot of unexplored areas that could hold important clues but that's goign off the point. They are only committing a fraud if they are knowingly deceiving others. From what I have read they are not thus I see them as either misguided but harmless or the real deal and therefore worthy of $99.95 per annum. Check out this site on the Cordona's http://www.intermetu.../pdcardona.html

Beware of using Nu Age as an umbrella term. That is what is desired i.e. if this new age is BS then all of it must be. Consider writers on their merits and assess what resonates personally. If it doesn't hit the right note then fair enough there is plenty more to fill one's days. Assuming the world doesn't end of course.  :devil:

Well at least I got you thinking and admitting the possibility. There is one thing I can tell you though and this I know with certainty. Native people do not believe it is ethical to charge money for any ceremony or teaching and they believe the only acceptable way to transmit traditional teachings is orally and face-to-face. The people here are either misguided or frauds, but one thing is certain, whatever they teach and how they teach it, is against any Native tradition and custom.

I can understand that you would like to give the benefit of the doubt, but for heavens sake, at some point you need to open your eyes and recognise the clap trap for what it is. The fact that the Cordona's are nicely portrayed on a New Age site, means nothing, that's where they get their victims.. erm.. clients I mean.

Slim, I you're a good guy, I like discussing with ya, but sometimes you cause me to facepalm really hard.

Oh and btw, I only mentioned Von Däniken, because he happened to be the first one, to use and interpret the sarcophage cover in a creative way.  I don't need him to discredit anything else, I can do that on me own  :P

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#23    icet925

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 09:12 AM

View Postwindandwave_, on 24 February 2010 - 12:47 PM, said:

icet925
  First You personally do not place much faith in the whole 2012 thing. So this thread is a puzzler to me.

  Newton did not have any ANE materials to help w/ the man's calculations he made. He based some of them on the dimensions of the temple in heaven. Perhaps even someone like him wasnt able to get too much from so little to go on.

Yeah I personally don't place much faith into this whole 2012 thing.  You are correct, however I do enjoy reading these theories because it is intriguing.  Basically, I want to see which theories people believe in the most.


#24    SlimJim22

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 12:01 PM

View PostTheSearcher, on 25 February 2010 - 06:44 AM, said:

Well at least I got you thinking and admitting the possibility. There is one thing I can tell you though and this I know with certainty. Native people do not believe it is ethical to charge money for any ceremony or teaching and they believe the only acceptable way to transmit traditional teachings is orally and face-to-face. The people here are either misguided or frauds, but one thing is certain, whatever they teach and how they teach it, is against any Native tradition and custom.

I can understand that you would like to give the benefit of the doubt, but for heavens sake, at some point you need to open your eyes and recognise the clap trap for what it is. The fact that the Cordona's are nicely portrayed on a New Age site, means nothing, that's where they get their victims.. erm.. clients I mean.

Slim, I you're a good guy, I like discussing with ya, but sometimes you cause me to facepalm really hard.

Oh and btw, I only mentioned Von Däniken, because he happened to be the first one, to use and interpret the sarcophage cover in a creative way.  I don't need him to discredit anything else, I can do that on me own  :P


I'm reading up on EVD right now. He covers the majority of the typical mysteries and claims to be the biggest selling non fiction author world wide. I am sure that is debatable but even worse the man has a theme park in Switzerland and is planning more worldwide. Switzerland being a tax haven and all makes sense but this guy does seem pretty money motivated.

On the othere side maybe he is just accruing wealth so he can invest it in benevolent projects but I'm not so sure. As for the Cordona's I can see little harm and a fair bit of value in what they do. It's not for all sure but diversity is good and I see nowt wrong in people becoming more spiritual as time goes on. If they are deceiving people with false promises then that is different but I think these sort of people need to be humoured and tolerated above all else. It's always good to have an alternative view just not when it becomes dogma that 'MUST' be believed.

I checked out the New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans web site. Nice name  :blink: Anyway a lot of it was still under construction but there is obviously something to it. All the Nu Age gumpf does make people susceptible to scams but in every handful there maybe one genuine article that is doing it for the right reasons. You can take money without being profit driven It is called not for profit enterprise or something and is really catching on because of all the tax breaks you get. I don't imagine too many native american shamans have a good tax lawyer but I am sure the phonies can be just as convincing as the real deal. Therefore, all we can do is be vigilant with regards to what we read and try and discriminate the wheat from the chaff. On that site I thought the use of colours was strange and they denied the relevance of the term shaman. Much to consider but as yet the jury is still out for me at least. Cheers Search, how many face palms have I given you today. I'm counting about four. lol  :P

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#25    Alien Being

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 12:27 PM

View Posticet925, on 24 February 2010 - 01:02 AM, said:

As you all may know, Issac Newton predicted that the world would end in 2060 based on mathematical equation of the bible's revelation.
However, there is another theory from Nostradamus and the Mayans that the world would end in the year 2012 based on the star alignments.
I opened up this poll to see which one people believe in more.

I'm expecting something big to happen in 2012.

I kind of suspect it will come fron CERN and be proof of extra dimensions. As the experts settle down and try to figure out what the implications of extra dimensions are they will realise they have just proved the existance of God.

This will cause religion to make a spectacular comeback which will cause major upheavel around the would with those who have built their whole existance on atheism attempting to destroy religion. 'The Phlight of the fallen' talked about in religion will occur and they will start WW3 to try and destroy religion.


#26    Agent. Mulder

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 02:47 PM

View PostAlien Being, on 25 February 2010 - 12:27 PM, said:

I'm expecting something big to happen in 2012.
I kind of suspect it will come fron CERN and be proof of extra dimensions. As the experts settle down and try to figure out what the implications of extra dimensions are they will realise they have just proved the existance of God.

sorry, but how in the hell does science proving theres more than one dimension, and that we have a multiverse, prove god?

View PostAlien Being, on 25 February 2010 - 12:27 PM, said:

This will cause religion to make a spectacular comeback which will cause major upheavel around the would with those who have built their whole existance on atheism attempting to destroy religion. 'The Phlight of the fallen' talked about in religion will occur and they will start WW3 to try and destroy religion.

thats even less likely to happen, based on what you have just said.

the truth is out there....

#27    Shinsengumi

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 03:49 PM

Whats with westerners and the constant doom and gloom end of the world nonsense ? Learn how to live and make the most out of life. Were born, we live , we die the world goes on regardless.

Walking on the roof of the world.. Gazing at flowers.. To which hell am I going.  - Issa

#28    WoIverine

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 04:35 PM

View PostSlimJim22, on 24 February 2010 - 04:10 PM, said:

I agree it is wise to observe all propheciess even if we don't believe them and aren't quite ready to build a bunker. However, there is a danger of such prophecies being in the public eye. Take Revelations, it's been around a long time and although it is fairly cryptic it does give the ptb an opportunity to exploit us through staging events that closely match what is written. If events are manufactured does it leave prphecy unfulfilled? No, it means the prophecies are being partly filled but and everyone would be ready for Jesus to return. Again we are open to deception as they could create a phony Jesus. Jesus himself said we wouldn't recognize him or perhaps someone made it up. I don't want to miss the J man if he does stop by but I am determined to be vigilant and not be bought in by deceptions. I am heeding the advice of Rocky Balboa

I guess this is why there is some value in the Mayan prophecies. They were deliberately vague so that they could not be exploited but rather the people could take from it what they will and create a new world of their own making.

Hey Slim, that's a great attitude to have towards things, I feel the same. Thanks for the reply man, and by Rocky Balboa...did you mean, "It ain't ovah, till it's ovah!" lol

Edited by SpiderCyde, 25 February 2010 - 04:35 PM.


#29    Roughneck

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 04:54 PM

View PostSpiderCyde, on 24 February 2010 - 02:54 PM, said:

If you go based on Biblical prophecy, I would estimate that sometime between mid 2019 and mid 2020 would be about the end of Revelations. A lot of huge things would have to happen for all of the prophecies to be fulfilled, who knows if they will, or won't be. As it stands now, I can see things headed in the direction mentioned in the Bible. Some would say that we are in the "Time of Sorrows" that Christ mentioned. I'm trying to keep in mind any source of prophecy I come across whether I believe them or not. Never know, one day it could save my ass.

'Time of Sorrows' can be more properly said about other periods in world history already passed.  Say what you will about our era, at least we don't have to worry about a cold war between two superpowers, a world war that spans the globe, or a world war that destroys an entire generation, or a civil war that deals out people's lives like a gambler dealing out a deck of cards, or at least we're educated enough to know the Dark Ages really sucked.

Considering a good time to raise a family, modern times aren't so bad.  There's still parts of the world that are in ruin, but considering the parts that aren't, it's not like we have it worse than other generations or eras.  Every generation will have their doomsayers.  Some garner more attention when the era they live in are full of doom, coincidentally.

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#30    TheSearcher

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 05:21 PM

View PostSlimJim22, on 25 February 2010 - 12:01 PM, said:

I'm reading up on EVD right now. He covers the majority of the typical mysteries and claims to be the biggest selling non fiction author world wide. I am sure that is debatable but even worse the man has a theme park in Switzerland and is planning more worldwide. Switzerland being a tax haven and all makes sense but this guy does seem pretty money motivated.

On the othere side maybe he is just accruing wealth so he can invest it in benevolent projects but I'm not so sure. As for the Cordona's I can see little harm and a fair bit of value in what they do. It's not for all sure but diversity is good and I see nowt wrong in people becoming more spiritual as time goes on. If they are deceiving people with false promises then that is different but I think these sort of people need to be humoured and tolerated above all else. It's always good to have an alternative view just not when it becomes dogma that 'MUST' be believed.

I checked out the New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans web site. Nice name  :blink: Anyway a lot of it was still under construction but there is obviously something to it. All the Nu Age gumpf does make people susceptible to scams but in every handful there maybe one genuine article that is doing it for the right reasons. You can take money without being profit driven It is called not for profit enterprise or something and is really catching on because of all the tax breaks you get. I don't imagine too many native american shamans have a good tax lawyer but I am sure the phonies can be just as convincing as the real deal. Therefore, all we can do is be vigilant with regards to what we read and try and discriminate the wheat from the chaff. On that site I thought the use of colours was strange and they denied the relevance of the term shaman. Much to consider but as yet the jury is still out for me at least. Cheers Search, how many face palms have I given you today. I'm counting about four. lol  :P

As far a facepalms go it's not to bad, only one so far. Just make sure you don't believe everything you read, cause some of it really is as bad as I make it sound. EVD and Arguilles are amongst those. The first actually admitted fabricating some of his proof.
It might sound nice, convincing and all, but that's the nature of the beast, the more complicated a con gets, the more convincing it becomes.

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Publilius Syrus.

So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!




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