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Terra Calalus- an Ancient Roman colony in USA


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#1    GlassButterfly

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 07:57 PM

Did Terra Calalus really exist?

I recently spoke to a friend who told me that ancient Roman artifacts had been found near Tucson, Arizona, dating back to around 900 A.D. near a place called Silverbell Road. Fascinated, I searched for this topic on the internet and found only a few small articles on the subject. Here is a magazine article I found on it (unforunately you have to scroll halfway through the scanned document to read it) but it IS interesting. There are photos included of a Roman sword with carvings on it supposedly mentioning how they came to Arizona via the Gulf of Mexico & hiking for over a 1,000 miles across Texas & New Mexico. I've been a resident of Arizona for a long time and I've never heard of this until like a week ago. I'm wondering why nothing much has been mentioned about it since 1980... Google doesn't have much info on it, either, save for a few grainy photos of the artifacts and a couple of brief mentions here and there. This would seem to be a pretty significant find, so I wonder where these artifacts (swords, coins, pots, pans, etc) are today?

Link to the article is here: Terra Calalus

An article mentioning Romans in Texas history is here

Has anyone ever heard of this?

Edited by GlassButterfly, 26 February 2010 - 07:58 PM.

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#2    J.B.

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:28 PM

Details of the finds make it easy to cry hoax, and such a thing would disrupt modern history somewhat. It's a strong conceit that Columbus was among the first to discover America. To say anyone besides the Vikings beat him to the punch would rather upset the whole idea of this being the "New World".


#3    Talion

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:49 PM

The story has all the markings of political and academic mishandlings common of such archeological sites of the times. Arizona is home to many archaeological finds that have been suppressed by universities and government hush-up’s. This is the first I have heard of this but until more physical proof can be established the suppression will continue. Even though it’s a buried topic.
Great find though. :tsu:

Edited by Talion, 26 February 2010 - 08:49 PM.

"The ANUNNAKI created (at least) two distinct hybrid humans: one, the fully-functioning demi-god (as described in the Old Testament): the other, a ‘dumbed-down’, more manageable ‘drone’ version (but still, crucially, with godlike abilities latent within it’s DNA). The story goes that the descendants of both versions populate the Earth today with, inevitably, one version ruling the other…"

#4    GlassButterfly

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:59 PM

View PostTalion, on 26 February 2010 - 08:49 PM, said:

The story has all the markings of political and academic mishandlings common of such archeological sites of the times. Arizona is home to many archaeological finds that have been suppressed by universities and government hush-upís. This is the first I have heard of this but until more physical proof can be established the suppression will continue. Even though itís a buried topic.
Great find though. :tsu:

That's the same thing I wondered - who buried this story? It does sound like a hoax, but there's no mention - anywhere - of a hoax involving bogus Roman artifacts in Arizona. The article's so old that the person who wrote it might be in a retirement home or passed on by now, but this intrigues me just enough to make some phone calls and ask around about it. Next thing, I suppose, is to find out if the site out at Silverbell is still there...

thanks,

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#5    GlassButterfly

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 09:06 PM

View PostJ.B., on 26 February 2010 - 08:28 PM, said:

Details of the finds make it easy to cry hoax, and such a thing would disrupt modern history somewhat. It's a strong conceit that Columbus was among the first to discover America. To say anyone besides the Vikings beat him to the punch would rather upset the whole idea of this being the "New World".

Agreed - Columbus received far more credit than he was due. There's evidence that the Chinese & Mongolians were here around 1000 A.D. and traveled from Alaska all the way down to the Californian coast. If there's proof that the Romans were here too, that should definitely have raised more than a few eyebrows. Talk about rewriting the history books!

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#6    hetrodoxly

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 09:49 PM

View PostGlassButterfly, on 26 February 2010 - 07:57 PM, said:

Did Terra Calalus really exist?

I recently spoke to a friend who told me that ancient Roman artifacts had been found near Tucson, Arizona, dating back to around 900 A.D. near a place called Silverbell Road. Fascinated, I searched for this topic on the internet and found only a few small articles on the subject. Here is a magazine article I found on it (unforunately you have to scroll halfway through the scanned document to read it) but it IS interesting. There are photos included of a Roman sword with carvings on it supposedly mentioning how they came to Arizona via the Gulf of Mexico & hiking for over a 1,000 miles across Texas & New Mexico. I've been a resident of Arizona for a long time and I've never heard of this until like a week ago. I'm wondering why nothing much has been mentioned about it since 1980... Google doesn't have much info on it, either, save for a few grainy photos of the artifacts and a couple of brief mentions here and there. This would seem to be a pretty significant find, so I wonder where these artifacts (swords, coins, pots, pans, etc) are today?

Link to the article is here: Terra Calalus

An article mentioning Romans in Texas history is here

Has anyone ever heard of this?
The problem you have here is "the Roman Empire" had crumbled and ceased to exist about 400 years prior to this date, 900 AD was the Italian middle ages.

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#7    GlassButterfly

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:44 PM

View Posthetrodoxly, on 26 February 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

The problem you have here is "the Roman Empire" had crumbled and ceased to exist about 400 years prior to this date, 900 AD was the Italian middle ages.

I'm just posting an article, I didn't write it. I'm not saying it's genuine. It's a curiosity to me, that's all. The article itself says the colony (according to the relic) is dated from around 750 to 900 A.D. That's still 600-700 years before the first Spaniards showed up over here and right around the time the Roman Empire became the "Holy Roman Empire." The last Roman Emperor is listed as Constantine XI in 1448-53 A.D. Even throughout all of this, the Roman Empire/Holy Roman Empire still had plenty of far-flung outposts, so settling Terra Calalus is not out of the realm of possiblity. It sure would be nice to see those relics, though. Any argument is just speculation without them.

Here's a timeline of the rise and fall of the Roman Empire

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#8    aquatus1

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:58 PM

View PostJ.B., on 26 February 2010 - 08:28 PM, said:

Details of the finds make it easy to cry hoax, and such a thing would disrupt modern history somewhat. It's a strong conceit that Columbus was among the first to discover America. To say anyone besides the Vikings beat him to the punch would rather upset the whole idea of this being the "New World".

Really?

Who cares enough about it for it to be a conceit?


#9    Alien Being

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 12:13 AM

View PostGlassButterfly, on 26 February 2010 - 11:44 PM, said:

I'm just posting an article, I didn't write it. I'm not saying it's genuine. It's a curiosity to me, that's all. The article itself says the colony (according to the relic) is dated from around 750 to 900 A.D. That's still 600-700 years before the first Spaniards showed up over here and right around the time the Roman Empire became the "Holy Roman Empire." The last Roman Emperor is listed as Constantine XI in 1448-53 A.D. Even throughout all of this, the Roman Empire/Holy Roman Empire still had plenty of far-flung outposts, so settling Terra Calalus is not out of the realm of possiblity. It sure would be nice to see those relics, though. Any argument is just speculation without them.

Here's a timeline of the rise and fall of the Roman Empire

Roman and central european history is well known and well documented.

Millions of texts survive and not one has ever indicated they explored the Americas. Furthermore where are the Roman ruins and civilization in the states? A cross can be planted a city cannot.

Total hoax if ever there was one.

The only claims of pre-Coloumbus Europeans in the Americas I am open to are the Irish and Viking as both have accounts written in their historical documents. To date only a Viking settlement has been found in Newfoundland but we dont know if that was Vinland.


#10    J.B.

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 01:01 AM

View Postaquatus1, on 26 February 2010 - 11:58 PM, said:

Really?

Who cares enough about it for it to be a conceit?


Have you ever tried passing the 1421 Chinese theory across historians? I wasn't talking about a common person conceit, I was talking about the people who are still writing our history books. They don't seem willing to accept much beyond Columbus and the Vikings.


#11    aquatus1

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 03:05 AM

They don't seem to have a problem asking for evidence.


#12    GlassButterfly

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 03:27 PM

View PostJ.B., on 27 February 2010 - 01:01 AM, said:

Have you ever tried passing the 1421 Chinese theory across historians? I wasn't talking about a common person conceit, I was talking about the people who are still writing our history books. They don't seem willing to accept much beyond Columbus and the Vikings.

Agreed. Chinese artifacts have been found in California that date back well before the arrival of Columbus and possibly even the Vikings. I believe this is deliberately overlooked because no one wants to openly question the origin of Native Americans. It's not "P.C."

@ Alien Being:
I don't know if Romans were here or not, but I highly doubt we've found ALL Roman records, especially if they managed to land in the Americas. Chances are if a small group of Romans managed to wander this far away, they never returned home. The native people here weren't friendly to the idea of being enslaved. Besides, it wasn't like these theoretical Romans would have had a way to send word back to the Roman Empire saying, "Hey, guess where we're at!" Being in the Sonoran desert back then would have been akin to landing on the moon.
Roman coins have been found in archealogical digs in Florida & Texas. True, Spaniards could have brought them, but why so many? Until we've literally found all records of Roman travels (which is impossible), there's always room for new possibilities, IMO.

A list of strange artifacts from early Europe have been found all over the Americas. Here's an article on that very subject. Roman Coins in America

Edited by GlassButterfly, 27 February 2010 - 03:52 PM.

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#13    hetrodoxly

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 10:46 PM

View PostGlassButterfly, on 26 February 2010 - 11:44 PM, said:

I'm just posting an article, I didn't write it. I'm not saying it's genuine. It's a curiosity to me, that's all. The article itself says the colony (according to the relic) is dated from around 750 to 900 A.D. That's still 600-700 years before the first Spaniards showed up over here and right around the time the Roman Empire became the "Holy Roman Empire." The last Roman Emperor is listed as Constantine XI in 1448-53 A.D. Even throughout all of this, the Roman Empire/Holy Roman Empire still had plenty of far-flung outposts, so settling Terra Calalus is not out of the realm of possiblity. It sure would be nice to see those relics, though. Any argument is just speculation without them.

Here's a timeline of the rise and fall of the Roman Empire
The creation of the holy Roman empire is something completely different from being "Roman" Artefacts from that period would be classified as being Byzantium.

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#14    hetrodoxly

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 10:56 PM

[quote name='Alien Being' date='27 February 2010 - 12:13 AM'

The only claims of pre-Coloumbus Europeans in the Americas I am open to are the Irish and Viking as both have accounts written in their historical documents. To date only a Viking settlement has been found in Newfoundland but we dont know if that was Vinland.
[/quote]
The most plausible evidence of anyone setting foot on mainland America before Columbus is John Cabot in his ship the Matthew.

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#15    J.B.

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 02:08 AM

There have been unsubstantiated stories of Egyptian Pyramids in caves in the Grand Canyon. Of course, if no one finds them ever again, they will remain mythical.





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