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Theoretical Psychology


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#1    Virtual Particle

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 12:10 AM

What was life like in the past and how did it effect Psychosis?

Prior to industrialization society still needed street sweepers. People who could function 16 hrs a day...lifetimes in those days were in the 40's. Today we have By-polar disorder and when does depression set in?? Is inadvertent selective breeding related to psychosis??

Greeks and Romans wanted soldiers who had no emotions, today we have sociopaths.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad, 08 April 2010 - 12:32 AM.

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#2    icile_xele

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:47 AM

I think this is a very interesting point. Survival of the fittest for *this* world. However, when we look at fitness, some of these newer or more commonly diagnosed disorders don't seem to be to the advantage of people or society in reality. I think you would have to show that people with whatever disorders are more successful in society on average (at least among the middle classes) in order for that theory to really pan out. As well, I think you would need to show a difference between the presence of these disorders according to the various social classes (socioeconomic backgrounds). Unless the reason for unintentional selection were related more closely related to something such as culture or entertainment, instead of merely surviving in a capitalist society.

Even after all of that, there are still other things which need to be taken into consideration, such as time in front of the tv (or microwave), diet, exercise, and everything else which could contribute to the growth or diagnosis of these issues. (Who is diagnosed, by whom, how are they tested, at which ages on average, according to social class and so forth.)

I think it would be pretty hard to sift through all of the information, as there are so many factors to consider.

Edited by icile_xele, 08 April 2010 - 03:49 AM.


#3    Virtual Particle

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:48 AM

I was very successful with regards to applying this theoretical methodology. I feel that soon (100 years perhaps) the next psychosis will be related to greed.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad, 08 April 2010 - 04:57 AM.

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#4    icile_xele

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:29 AM

To apply? I'm not sure what you mean. Again, while we may look at likelihoods and similarities, from a scientific standpoint, tons of data would have to be collected, sifted, and calculated to lend real validity to the theory. Personally, I think we're more aligned with what's culturally proper or desirable. More than greed, I would pick vanity or envy if we're looking at the general population. I might even say insecurity. I say that probably because of the way I view greed, and the issue being who we choose and why. From my perspective, we're driven more by approval than simply having all of everything or as much as possible. How much is necessary seems to depend on social grouping. I see more attempts at ladder climbing in the name of approval and ranking than I do all out greed.

The ones who do the most attracting, on average, seem to be the ones who go farthest out of their way in the name of approval in the areas of vanity and gaining envy, often out of insecurity. That's not at all scientific (nor is it a "judgment"), just a personal observation. lol

I don't see many people working 3 jobs to hoard money. I see many people trying to keep up with the Jones, and in selecting mates aiming as high as they can socially (sometimes missing the mark with the apple of their eyes because they believe that general attractiveness or pretending to have more than they do goes over better than it actually does).

I don't say this to imply that all people who have gained some "status" did so for vain reasons, but rather that most people going after them (and others) do so for vain reasons.

We're not picking mates for their ability to work long hours or till the ground. We're not picking them based on how greedy they are.


#5    Agent. Mulder

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:53 PM

well, the greeks and romans didnt want that. the Greeks took what they could get originally, as they couldnt fund an Actual army, so they relied on citizens for fighting. so thats not true.
anyways, im gonna go out on a limb and say much of what we have today (emotionally) was the same 2 thousand years ago. im sure many of these disorders were still around back then. although, they may have deemed someone 'possessed', a 'witch', 'evil spirit' etc.
and greed? well, thats been around for ages, and probably will be much longer.

the truth is out there....

#6    Virtual Particle

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:43 PM

There are less serial killers then there are individuals with by-polar disorder. I see that as an indicator related to changes in society.

icile_xele sorry dd not initially understand you're offer let me just say?  :yes:

The Roman/Greek thing was just an example...actually most if not all cultures in those days had similar needs.


Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad, 08 April 2010 - 10:43 PM.

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#7    Agent. Mulder

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 05:31 PM

View PostTriad, on 08 April 2010 - 10:43 PM, said:

There are less serial killers then there are individuals with by-polar disorder. I see that as an indicator related to changes in society.

icile_xele sorry dd not initially understand you're offer let me just say?  :yes:

The Roman/Greek thing was just an example...actually most if not all cultures in those days had similar needs.


Any thoughts?

bad example i guess.
but, just because we have A Lot more documentation now, doesnt mean these things were less than now.
we have examples of people in antiquity being insane. commodus comes to mind, as does caligula.

Edited by Agent. Mulder, 09 April 2010 - 05:32 PM.

the truth is out there....

#8    Virtual Particle

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 06:16 PM

View PostAgent. Mulder, on 09 April 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

bad example i guess.
but, just because we have A Lot more documentation now, doesnt mean these things were less than now.
we have examples of people in antiquity being insane. commodus comes to mind, as does caligula.

Agreed it was :tu: Toltec's also established and enforced an Empire as another example.

I am not suggesting that. Rather, that there seems to be a pattern within the context of society at large.

Any thoughts?

Time is a form of communication
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Matter communicates its existence
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Black Hole Creates Spectacular Light Show

#9    Alien Being

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 06:38 PM

View PostTriad, on 08 April 2010 - 12:10 AM, said:

What was life like in the past and how did it effect Psychosis?

Prior to industrialization society still needed street sweepers. People who could function 16 hrs a day...lifetimes in those days were in the 40's. Today we have By-polar disorder and when does depression set in?? Is inadvertent selective breeding related to psychosis??

Greeks and Romans wanted soldiers who had no emotions, today we have sociopaths.

Any thoughts?

I dont believe mental illnesses exist.

I think people who believe they suffer from them are weak in the head and need to learn to control their own minds.

Sociopaths are not the result of selective breeding in soliders. Its a life choice made by a frame of mind. These people need to learn to control their thought processes and let go of those bad experiences causing them to act the way they do.

Edited by Alien Being, 09 April 2010 - 06:42 PM.


#10    Virtual Particle

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 07:49 PM

View PostAlien Being, on 09 April 2010 - 06:38 PM, said:

I dont believe mental illnesses exist.

I think people who believe they suffer from them are weak in the head and need to learn to control their own minds.

Sociopaths are not the result of selective breeding in soliders. Its a life choice made by a frame of mind. These people need to learn to control their thought processes and let go of those bad experiences causing them to act the way they do.

Quote

Progressive Brain Changes Detected in Childhood Onset Schizophrenia

Evidence of progressive abnormal brain development in schizophrenia has emerged from the first longitudinal brain imaging study ever conducted in adolescents for any illness. MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans revealed ventricles (fluid-filled cavities in the middle of the brain) enlarging between ages 14 and 16 in teens with a rare, severe, childhood onset form of the disorder, report Judith Rapoport, M.D., and colleagues of the National Institute of Mental Health, in the October issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry.

Also in this issue, NIMH's Theodore Zahn, Ph.D., Rapoport and colleagues report that the same adolescents, all of whom had experienced psychosis prior to age 12, showed autonomic nervous system abnormalities characteristic of adult schizophrenia.

Rest of link

My point with the above Alien Being? Is that with current technology we have identified specific issues. Which, as the result of there commonalities? Are relatable to organic factors. Now I do know of a research effort that occurred in the early 80's? The Psychiatrist who preformed the study was very wealthy and owned a castle somewhere in Europe. He went to New York, entered some of its worst neighborhoods and identified 10 or so Schizophrenics. All of them were homeless and in really bad shape. He brought the patients to his castle which was his home and he and is wife? Essentially began treating them as they were part of there family. They all had access to butlers, maids and all
the perks of a lavish lifestyle.


The patients showed significant improvement, after about 3 years. Which, does suggest? That there may be a way to get around, so to speak, the clinical issues we have observed? But the conditions I feel would have to be ideal. Now I worked with adolescent children charged with multiple instances of murder but with no convictions. And while the facilities themselves? Were standard for a private rehab/residential facility in the United States? I was given full authority and so engaged my clients in a similar way. It to about 5 years but, we got there meds lowered and many of them showed significant improvement.

To be very clear it was not a cake walk.

Any thoughts?

Time is a form of communication
Consciousness transcends all states
that can be perceived as matter
Matter communicates its existence
to consciousness through time        
Man is infinite
God is more
Black Hole Creates Spectacular Light Show

#11    Copasetic

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 09:24 PM

View PostTriad, on 08 April 2010 - 12:10 AM, said:

What was life like in the past and how did it effect Psychosis?

Prior to industrialization society still needed street sweepers. People who could function 16 hrs a day...lifetimes in those days were in the 40's. Today we have By-polar disorder and when does depression set in?? Is inadvertent selective breeding related to psychosis??

Greeks and Romans wanted soldiers who had no emotions, today we have sociopaths.

Any thoughts?

That is a very good topic Triad, I've wondered the same thing many times and have even gone so far as to try and convince certain colleagues to look into it.

I suspect, that the greater trend in mental disorders is two fold. First, we understand the mind better than in prior centuries. This means an increased monitoring for 'mental disorders'. Which raises the reported incidence.

I also suspect there is another part to it as well, that has to do with the slacking of natural selection and freedoms granted to us from the agricultural revolution.

For this latter idea, it seems a rather touchy subject to explore. As I'm sure you're aware there have been gross abuses of 'Darwinistic evolution' in the past and the scars of Eugenics are still not fully healed. I think because of touchy nature of the subject, it likely won't receive the prominent study it should for quite sometime.

Edited by Copasetic, 09 April 2010 - 09:24 PM.


#12    Alien Being

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 09:38 PM

View PostTriad, on 09 April 2010 - 07:49 PM, said:

Rest of link

My point with the above Alien Being? Is that with current technology we have identified specific issues. Which, as the result of there commonalities? Are relatable to organic factors. Now I do know of a research effort that occurred in the early 80's? The Psychiatrist who preformed the study was very wealthy and owned a castle somewhere in Europe. He went to New York, entered some of its worst neighborhoods and identified 10 or so Schizophrenics. All of them were homeless and in really bad shape. He brought the patients to his castle which was his home and he and is wife? Essentially began treating them as they were part of there family. They all had access to butlers, maids and all
the perks of a lavish lifestyle.


The patients showed significant improvement, after about 3 years. Which, does suggest? That there may be a way to get around, so to speak, the clinical issues we have observed? But the conditions I feel would have to be ideal. Now I worked with adolescent children charged with multiple instances of murder but with no convictions. And while the facilities themselves? Were standard for a private rehab/residential facility in the United States? I was given full authority and so engaged my clients in a similar way. It to about 5 years but, we got there meds lowered and many of them showed significant improvement.

To be very clear it was not a cake walk.

Any thoughts?

To be homnest I do believe that mental illness does causes changes in the brain tissue if left untreated.

However what I am talking about is the fact that what pops up in your conscious thoughts is your choice. If you are negged out and cant get over those down thoughts you end up suffering from depression. If you have traumatic experiences and cant let go of those memories you get post traumatic stress sydrome, etc, etc.

What I am saying is the individuals suffering mental illness are those not strong enough mentally to have dealt with the trigger in the first place.

If you get your leg blown off in Afganistan you might cope pretty well. You might be the sort of person who jsut picks themselves up and gets on with life. However you might be the person who breaks mentally and ends up in the p-wing for the next 20 years. What I am saying is some people are mentally very resilent and others are very weak.


#13    Fatebreaker

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 11:17 PM

View PostAlien Being, on 09 April 2010 - 09:38 PM, said:

To be homnest I do believe that mental illness does causes changes in the brain tissue if left untreated.

However what I am talking about is the fact that what pops up in your conscious thoughts is your choice. If you are negged out and cant get over those down thoughts you end up suffering from depression. If you have traumatic experiences and cant let go of those memories you get post traumatic stress sydrome, etc, etc.

What I am saying is the individuals suffering mental illness are those not strong enough mentally to have dealt with the trigger in the first place.

If you get your leg blown off in Afganistan you might cope pretty well. You might be the sort of person who jsut picks themselves up and gets on with life. However you might be the person who breaks mentally and ends up in the p-wing for the next 20 years. What I am saying is some people are mentally very resilent and others are very weak.
It sounds cold what your saying but I do agree with you

The only thing i have to add is that the body affects the mind as the mind affects the body

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#14    Virtual Particle

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 11:33 PM

I appreciate your input Copasetic and just want to mention I never really feel picked upon in this forum :yes:

Yes I agree it is a touchy subject. But if I am correct? the matter of manipulating our species? I not just the result of acts with intent. They are also the result of unconscious factors upon the societal scale. Going from wild, to somewhat civilized, would result in addressing the in-firmed from a different context.

Alien being, each of us respond to stress in different way's. It is an aspect of our individuality. Case in point? If in fact someone were confronted with the reality? Of something they thought was impossible? In the wrong way? It could result potentially, in them developing a neurosis. Psychosis, is a step up on scale, of dysfunctional coping mechanisms.  With regards to examples? During my tenure at the above mentioned position and in the first five years?

My throat was almost slit, skull was almost crushed by a stone that weighed about 15 lbs, my jaw was almost broken about 7 times to name a very few incidents.


The company I worked for had been around for about 30 years. It began with the Unit I supervised...In its entire history no one had kept that position longer than me.

My clients were not Neurotic they were diagnosed with Psychotic disorders. Some of those who had proceeded me had actually died on the job. In reality? my reaction to every incident resulted in no injury to my clients and no injury to myself.

Any thoughts?

Any thoughts?

Time is a form of communication
Consciousness transcends all states
that can be perceived as matter
Matter communicates its existence
to consciousness through time        
Man is infinite
God is more
Black Hole Creates Spectacular Light Show

#15    Black Hound

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 07:21 PM

Well I wasted 7 years in undergrad and grad schoool to get my M.A. and Ph.D. when it has all been so broken down so simply :sleepy: I have no clue what Theo. Psych.,is, never came across the phrase until I just read it. One could speculate that never has sooo much been sooo misunderstood by sooo many yet articulated in such a manner as to appear to be the sole source of knowledge on the topic. Now that is T.P. :blink:





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