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9/11 TV fakery - No planes


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#421    Corp

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 08:05 PM

View Postemporio, on 24 November 2010 - 06:45 AM, said:

Really? Why don't you point out to me which one is theory. This is history, there is a large difference between the two.

That a select group of rich families are secretly running the US is a theory.
That the Depression happened on purpose is a theory.
That people were forced to give up any gold they have isn't a theory, it's false; people still have gold rings, necklaces, etc.
That the sinking of the Lusitania was ordered by banking families to make a profit is a theory.
That those banking families sold fuel to Germany in WW2 is a theory, and an unlike one at that.
That Hitler used communism to sell war to the public is a half-theory. While fear of communism helped him get power it was nationalism and restoring honour that sold the war to the Germans.
That the current economic troubles is designed to dismantle economies is a theory.
That 9/11 was an inside job and that explosive were used is a theory.


I will agree that there's a big difference between these theories and history.

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#422    DieChecker

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:04 PM

View Postflyingswan, on 24 November 2010 - 02:44 PM, said:

Really, you answer your own question there.  If a bird can damage a plane, then a plane can damage a building.
Exactly. Even if the plane hit squarely on a main beam, it will be cut in half from its momentum and not be stopped. The ensuing 500 mph flaming wreckage would continue on into the building tearing out interior walls and causing untold damage.

You only need a few beams to weaken to cause the upper stories to collapse. The story might have been that the building was supposed to be built to withstand a plane hitting it, but was a plane ever run into a building anywhere to proove the forces involved and the engineering was sound? After all automobile corporations often sell their cars as Crash-proof, yet independant crash testing often shows that their claims are over blown.

The entire demolition charge theory would be a thousand times harder to cover up then planting of WMD in Iraq. Yet Bush for some reason Masterfully destroys the WTC in NY and leaves almost no evidence, yet can't plant a single Chemical or Biological bomb in Iraq?

The "No Plane" theory is equally idiotic. Everyone saw it on LIVE TV. So what happened? All the networks agreed to hold their video for 15 minutes while some artist penciled in wings on the "Missiles"? Just a flat stupid theory.

The only mystery is how the buildings managed to fall basically straight down, rather then falling over.

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#423    emporio

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:42 PM

View PostCorp, on 24 November 2010 - 08:05 PM, said:

That a select group of rich families are secretly running the US is a theory.
That the Depression happened on purpose is a theory.
That people were forced to give up any gold they have isn't a theory, it's false; people still have gold rings, necklaces, etc.
That the sinking of the Lusitania was ordered by banking families to make a profit is a theory.
That those banking families sold fuel to Germany in WW2 is a theory, and an unlike one at that.
That Hitler used communism to sell war to the public is a half-theory. While fear of communism helped him get power it was nationalism and restoring honour that sold the war to the Germans.
That the current economic troubles is designed to dismantle economies is a theory.
That 9/11 was an inside job and that explosive were used is a theory.


I will agree that there's a big difference between these theories and history.


Allllright. The information is out there, you just have to look for it.

Where should I start?

Oil in WW2 -

"The alliance of Standard Oil with the Nazis wasn't well regarded by the US-Government, about all after they entered into the war after Pearl Harbour, on December 7th, 1941. Officials remembered an old law, "Trading with the Enemy". and opened a formal investigation against Standard Oil. The accusation was that the company hid patents from the US-Navy and supplied fuel to German Submarines. John D. Rockefeller said that he wasn't aware of that and Farish pled "no contest" to charges of criminal conspiracy with the Nazis. In March 1942. the Pentagon begged President Roosevelt to stop the investigation, to protect war production and oil supply. Roosevelt agreed. The Company paid a fine of $5000 and promised to dtop supply of fuel to the enemies."

http://docs.google.c...j3NUMcw0YjBuYwQ You should read this.


People being forced to give up gold -

"Fear of devaluation spurred a panic, which Roosevelt invoked to justify seizing people’s gold. On April 5, 1933, Roosevelt commanded all citizens to surrender their gold to the government. No citizen was permitted to own more than $100 in gold coins, except for rare coins with special value for collectors. Morgenthau announced on the same day that “gold held in private hoards serves no useful purpose under present circumstances.”[5] Gold was thus turned into the same type of contraband as Prohibition-banned rum. Roosevelt announced, “Many persons throughout the U.S. have hastened to turn in gold in their possession as an expression of their faith in the Government and as a result of their desire to be helpful in the emergency. "

http://www.usrarecoi...old_Robbery.htm

Lusitania -

Cunard Lines, owner of the ocean liner, the Lusitania, turned the ship over to the First Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill. It now became a ship of the English Navy and was under the control of the English government.

The ship was sent to New York City where it was loaded with six million rounds of ammunition, owned by J.P. Morgan & Co, to be sold to England and France to aid in their war against Germany.

Even though Wilson proclaimed America's neutrality in the European War, in accordance with the prior admonitions of George Washington, his government was secretly plotting to involve the American people by having the Lusitania sunk. This was made public in the book The Intimate Papers of Colonel House, written by a supporter of the Colonel, who recorded a conversation between Colonel House and Sir Edward Grey of England, the Foreign Secretary of England:

Grey:  What will America do if the Germans sink an ocean liner with American passengers on board?

House:  I believe that a flame of indignation would sweep the United States and that by itself would be sufficient to carry us into the war.

http://www.threeworl...d-war-1/ww1.htm

I'm too lazy to find the rest, I found this in about 10 minutes of searching. That's not history? HAHAHA
Also, why don't you look at how WTC 7 came down. Are you going to suggest that that wasn't a controlled demolition? LOOK AT IT. Also, how the hell do the WTC buildings fall at the speed of gravity? If each floor "pancaked on top on one another", they would take a lot longer to fall. At the altitude that the planes were flying, it's IMPOSSIBLE that they were travelling at 500mph.
I will admit that the destruction of our economy is theory, because it can't be anything else but that. However, if it does happen, just remember that you knew and did nothing about it. It's really obvious by YOUR false statements that you don't really know a lot about the subject.

Edited by emporio, 24 November 2010 - 10:01 PM.


#424    TK0001

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:31 PM

View PostQ24, on 23 November 2010 - 10:23 PM, said:

I look at a group with defined on-record motive and point the finger.

Really? What about the actual terrorists? They were never on record saying they wanted to kill Americans?


View PostQ24, on 23 November 2010 - 10:23 PM, said:

You look at a group with defined on-record motive and create some speculative bubble to allay your fears.

Very dramatic, Q.

View PostQ24, on 23 November 2010 - 10:23 PM, said:

One approach is logical and vigilant, the other is irrational and complacent.

More irony. You're on a roll.

View PostQ24, on 23 November 2010 - 10:23 PM, said:

It doesn’t surprise me that you miss this difference.

:rolleyes:


#425    Corp

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 11:15 PM

View Postemporio, on 24 November 2010 - 09:42 PM, said:


Doesn't seem to give any sources. Where's this from? Who wrote the article and where they got their information?

Quote


Hmm...didn't know that and I stand corrected. Though looking on wiki about the order seems not all gold was seized and people were paid for the gold the government took. Also seems only one person was charged with not handing over the gold, though it never stuck.

Quote


I'm not seeing a mention that banking families had the ship sunk, just that the government encouraged it, which is widely accepted. Plus the article is on a conspiracy website, and is thus extremely questionable.

Quote

I'm too lazy to find the rest, I found this in about 10 minutes of searching. That's not history? HAHAHA
Also, why don't you look at how WTC 7 came down. Are you going to suggest that that wasn't a controlled demolition? LOOK AT IT. Also, how the hell do the WTC buildings fall at the speed of gravity? If each floor "pancaked on top on one another", they would take a lot longer to fall. At the altitude that the planes were flying, it's IMPOSSIBLE that they were travelling at 500mph.
I will admit that the destruction of our economy is theory, because it can't be anything else but that. However, if it does happen, just remember that you knew and did nothing about it. It's really obvious by YOUR false statements that you don't really know a lot about the subject.

I concide on the seizing of gold but remained unconvinced on the rest. Just because something is on the internet does not make it fact.

As for WTC 7 I do admit that it is the oddest part of 9/11 and should be looked at with more care. But one oddity does not a government mass murder make. While the official story has holes in it the conspiracy theories have even more. Why bother with the attack and how they were able to keep the whole thing secret spring to mind.

Finally regarding the "destruction" of the economy people have been singing that tune for years now. Predicting doom and gloom and yet nothing major has happened. And even if I believed in it what would I do about it? I'm in no position to dictate government policy. So what are you doing to stop the coming destruction?

As a whole I find most conspiracy theories down right silly, such as the one presented in this thread, so I don't bother diving into the hard data and getting into debates about numbers and such. That's better left to the experts who have backgrounds in those fields.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#426    Bracket

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 12:04 AM

Thank god i'm not the only person who finds these conspiracies rediculous.  :rolleyes:

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#427    emporio

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 01:02 AM

View PostCorp, on 24 November 2010 - 11:15 PM, said:

Doesn't seem to give any sources. Where's this from? Who wrote the article and where they got their information?



Hmm...didn't know that and I stand corrected. Though looking on wiki about the order seems not all gold was seized and people were paid for the gold the government took. Also seems only one person was charged with not handing over the gold, though it never stuck.



I'm not seeing a mention that banking families had the ship sunk, just that the government encouraged it, which is widely accepted. Plus the article is on a conspiracy website, and is thus extremely questionable.



I concide on the seizing of gold but remained unconvinced on the rest. Just because something is on the internet does not make it fact.

As for WTC 7 I do admit that it is the oddest part of 9/11 and should be looked at with more care. But one oddity does not a government mass murder make. While the official story has holes in it the conspiracy theories have even more. Why bother with the attack and how they were able to keep the whole thing secret spring to mind.

Finally regarding the "destruction" of the economy people have been singing that tune for years now. Predicting doom and gloom and yet nothing major has happened. And even if I believed in it what would I do about it? I'm in no position to dictate government policy. So what are you doing to stop the coming destruction?

As a whole I find most conspiracy theories down right silly, such as the one presented in this thread, so I don't bother diving into the hard data and getting into debates about numbers and such. That's better left to the experts who have backgrounds in those fields.


Where are you expecting me to find this information? MSNBC? Most News networks would never publish such a thing. I understand that not everything on the internet is true, but when you read things with an open mind, it makes sense and connections start to be made. There is credible information out there, you just have to look. I'm not going to do that, because I have a feeling it wouldn't change your mind anyways. I'm simply saying read into it. The US government is a shady ****ing place, do people deny this?

I'm not really big on other conspiracy theories, but why do people find it hard to believe that the government is ****ing them over? It's strange to me, especially people who live in the U.S. What goes on in this country is not good. The corruption in this country is off the charts, and people just turn a blind eye.

What can you do? Nothing I guess. Why? Because there aren't enough people that give a **** to make anything happen. What am I doing? NOTHING. Maybe telling some people here and there, and they go and tell some more people. I just go on enjoying life and asking questions. Honestly, people don't want to hear this, for whatever reason (afraid). One day, the truth will come out about 9/11. Someone on their deathbed will probably squeal something. Only time will tell.


#428    Q24

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 01:41 AM

View PostTK0001, on 24 November 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:

Really? What about the actual terrorists? They were never on record saying they wanted to kill Americans?
I believe Osama bin Laden is on record as saying there would be retaliation for American policy in the Middle East.  Incidentally, I would support a court case against him – the more in the open the better.

Why didn’t the U.S. take up this opportunity when it was offered by the Taliban?
How can the U.S. rush to war be justified with no legal case in place against Al Qaeda?
Why would Bush and Cheney only testify to the 9/11 Commission together and behind closed doors?

Look at who is running the show, TK.

Why are you so content to accept the secrecy and fall back on speculation?
Afraid of the answers that a real investigation would bring?

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#429    Corp

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 02:04 PM

View Postemporio, on 25 November 2010 - 01:02 AM, said:

Where are you expecting me to find this information? MSNBC? Most News networks would never publish such a thing. I understand that not everything on the internet is true, but when you read things with an open mind, it makes sense and connections start to be made. There is credible information out there, you just have to look. I'm not going to do that, because I have a feeling it wouldn't change your mind anyways. I'm simply saying read into it. The US government is a shady ****ing place, do people deny this?

I'm not really big on other conspiracy theories, but why do people find it hard to believe that the government is ****ing them over? It's strange to me, especially people who live in the U.S. What goes on in this country is not good. The corruption in this country is off the charts, and people just turn a blind eye.

What can you do? Nothing I guess. Why? Because there aren't enough people that give a **** to make anything happen. What am I doing? NOTHING. Maybe telling some people here and there, and they go and tell some more people. I just go on enjoying life and asking questions. Honestly, people don't want to hear this, for whatever reason (afraid). One day, the truth will come out about 9/11. Someone on their deathbed will probably squeal something. Only time will tell.

I don't think anyone denys that the US government has done nasty things in the past and continues to do questionable actions that it hides from the public. What I, and I'm sure others, have problems with is the level of complexity of these plots. Some of the claims, like the one in the OP, are things that a Bond villain would find needlessly complex. I'm sure the government with love to be half as efficient and leak free as some people claim they are. Heck wished the department I work in could just make a decision on something, let alone pull off a public mass murder without anyone finding out. But if there is something hidden I'm sure it'll come out in time. Very little stays buried.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#430    Little Fish

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 04:26 PM

View PostCorp, on 24 November 2010 - 11:15 PM, said:

Doesn't seem to give any sources. Where's this from? Who wrote the article and where they got their information?
there are many sources.
http://www.amazon.co...90701131&sr=8-7
http://www.amazon.co...70&sr=1-1-spell
http://www.amazon.co...90701203&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.co...90701203&sr=1-5

Quote

I'm not seeing a mention that banking families had the ship sunk, just that the government encouraged it, which is widely accepted. Plus the article is on a conspiracy website, and is thus extremely questionable.
there is some evidence, but not conclusive as far as i am aware, but given the history of false flags, its not unlikely.
http://www.amazon.co...90701365&sr=1-1

Quote

As for WTC 7 I do admit that it is the oddest part of 9/11 and should be looked at with more care. But one oddity does not a government mass murder make. While the official story has holes in it the conspiracy theories have even more. Why bother with the attack and how they were able to keep the whole thing secret spring to mind.

why bother?
note the authors and the organisation and the date of publication
what does it suggest you?
if you're put off by the size of the document, try the third paragraph.
http://belfercenter....ffairs-1198.pdf

Quote

As a whole I find most conspiracy theories down right silly
what about the ones that are true? how do you find them?


#431    Corp

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 05:44 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 25 November 2010 - 04:26 PM, said:


That's a bit better. Internesting how these companies were able to do business without the government seizing their assets. Now were these companies from the US dealing directly with Germany or was it their German offices only? Because that would make a big difference.

Quote

there is some evidence, but not conclusive as far as i am aware, but given the history of false flags, its not unlikely.
http://www.amazon.co...90701365&sr=1-1

Again it's widely accepted that the government set the ship up to be sunk. Is there proof that it wasn't the government but rather the various companies who got the ball rolling?

Quote

why bother?
note the authors and the organisation and the date of publication
what does it suggest you?
if you're put off by the size of the document, try the third paragraph.
http://belfercenter....ffairs-1198.pdf

Yes why bother? So they could cut civil liberies? Didn't they do that with all the communist scares and didn't have it stick? And if they did why come up with a complex plan involving planes? Why not do another truck bomb but add in chemical weapons or something. Seems like it would be a lot easier and would involve less people. I just don't see the risks offsetting the gains.

Quote

what about the ones that are true? how do you find them?

I find them slightly interesting when taken into a historical context. However few conspiracy theories turn out to be true and many are over the top silly.

Edited by Corp, 25 November 2010 - 05:45 PM.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#432    Little Fish

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 09:15 PM

View PostCorp, on 25 November 2010 - 05:44 PM, said:

That's a bit better. Internesting how these companies were able to do business without the government seizing their assets. Now were these companies from the US dealing directly with Germany or was it their German offices only? Because that would make a big difference.
standard oil was supplying the nazis with oil, rubber, finance etc, hence the title of the book, they refueled nazi submarines in tenerife, the oil was shipped on standard oil tankers from the west indies with nazis on board. IG Farben and Standard Oil were joined at the hip, board members coexisted on the boards of IG Farben, Standard Oil and Bank of International Settlements, and high US government officials facilitated trade. chapter 3 of Trading with the Enemy. little point in explaining exactly what the book says when you can read it yourself here:
http://www.alexander...of Standard Oil

more here also details

http://www.bibliotec..._igfarben02.htm

Edited by Little Fish, 25 November 2010 - 09:17 PM.





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