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Global floating ice in "constant retreat"


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#31    Watchers

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 07:45 PM

View PostAshtarel, on 30 April 2010 - 03:36 PM, said:

You had me right up to the end, when all of a sudden, you went to flipping your top and bottom lips with the side of your forefinger, making that gibbering-idjut lawn mower engine sound. Where'd you go, sugar?

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Really? So I'm sure you're aware of "Snowball Earth" (650 - 750 million years ago), where our earth was nearly entirely covered in ice and temperatures plummeted rapidly. What brought us out of this phase? A naturally occurring rapid increase in volcanic and seismic activity. Ice core data shows that immediately after the Snowball Earth period, our levels of C02 naturally increased from volcanic activity by 350 times that of our modern day pollution levels.

Secondly, it's hilarious how Global Warming advocates throw out Carbon Dioxide as the main cause of global warming just because it's something humans are producing more of than current volcanic activity. Just so you know, the main greenhouse gas and the main contributor to warming effects is water vapor. Water vapor accounts for about 36% of all greenhouse effects. Carbon Dioxide accounts for like 15% of the warming effects caused by greenhouse gases.

Furthermore, Global Warming activists say in response to volcanic activity not having anything to do with it, "Oh, well we produce hundreds of times more C02 than a Volcano produces." Yes, they are right about this, unfortunately they failed to miss the biggest proponent--Water Vapor. The composition levels of most volcanic activity is about 60% water vapor and around 10-15% Carbon Dioxide. Volcanoes are producing more water vapor than we ever could, and they are doing it faster than we ever could.

Here's a breakup of what gases are actually being influenced by humans, and in what percentages:

Posted Image

The chart speaks for itself.

So in conclusion, here are the facts:

- We as humans have gathered approximately 100 years of weather evidence (on a globally accurate scale, more like only 40 years). When compared with the timescale of earth (in billions of years), our measurements are a fraction of a fraction (8.791 X 10^-9 %), or .000000008791 %. A good analogy of what we're trying to do would be to look at a digital movie. A typical digital photograph can contain over 9 million pixels, each with their own color and shade. A movie runs at about 30 Frames Per Second. If we have a 2 hour movie, that's 7,200 seconds X 30 FPS = 216,000 frames. To get the average pixels that we're talking about, that would be 216,000 X 9 Million = 1.944 x 10^12, or 1,944,000,000,000 pixels. To get a similar percentage population, we would be taking about 17,089 pixels grouped in one small section of a single frame towards the end of the movie. With this data, we're attempting to claim we know what the entire movie was about, or what trends took place. We simply cannot limit ourselves by saying "We're causing this!" just because something radical is happening that hasn't happened in 100 years, or a thousand years, or hell, a million years. The timescales we're dealing with are much larger than we can even comprehend.

- Our Earth was once completely frozen, and on it's own, without any human interference, volcanic activity picked up on its own and naturally raised C02 levels to 350 times the current levels (with included human interference). This shows that drastic weather processes happen ON their own without any effect from us, and in quantities much larger than we're capable of affecting.

- Water Vapor is the #1 Greenhouse Gas in quantity and in effect (because of quantity).

- Water Vapor is produced 99.999 % naturally, and only influenced by about .001 % by humans.

Global Warming being caused by humans is a complete farce used to propel political means and influence behavior on a large scale.



Essentially,

-


#32    Ignus Fatuus

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:16 PM

View PostWatchers, on 30 April 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

Really? So I'm sure you're aware of "Snowball Earth" (650 - 750 million years ago), where our earth was nearly entirely covered in ice and temperatures plummeted rapidly. What brought us out of this phase? A naturally occurring rapid increase in volcanic and seismic activity. Ice core data shows that immediately after the Snowball Earth period, our levels of C02 naturally increased from volcanic activity by 350 times that of our modern day pollution levels.

Secondly, it's hilarious how Global Warming advocates throw out Carbon Dioxide as the main cause of global warming just because it's something humans are producing more of than current volcanic activity. Just so you know, the main greenhouse gas and the main contributor to warming effects is water vapor. Water vapor accounts for about 36% of all greenhouse effects. Carbon Dioxide accounts for like 15% of the warming effects caused by greenhouse gases.

Furthermore, Global Warming activists say in response to volcanic activity not having anything to do with it, "Oh, well we produce hundreds of times more C02 than a Volcano produces." Yes, they are right about this, unfortunately they failed to miss the biggest proponent--Water Vapor. The composition levels of most volcanic activity is about 60% water vapor and around 10-15% Carbon Dioxide. Volcanoes are producing more water vapor than we ever could, and they are doing it faster than we ever could.

Here's a breakup of what gases are actually being influenced by humans, and in what percentages:

Posted Image

The chart speaks for itself.

So in conclusion, here are the facts:

- We as humans have gathered approximately 100 years of weather evidence (on a globally accurate scale, more like only 40 years). When compared with the timescale of earth (in billions of years), our measurements are a fraction of a fraction (8.791 X 10^-9 %), or .000000008791 %. A good analogy of what we're trying to do would be to look at a digital movie. A typical digital photograph can contain over 9 million pixels, each with their own color and shade. A movie runs at about 30 Frames Per Second. If we have a 2 hour movie, that's 7,200 seconds X 30 FPS = 216,000 frames. To get the average pixels that we're talking about, that would be 216,000 X 9 Million = 1.944 x 10^12, or 1,944,000,000,000 pixels. To get a similar percentage population, we would be taking about 17,089 pixels grouped in one small section of a single frame towards the end of the movie. With this data, we're attempting to claim we know what the entire movie was about, or what trends took place. We simply cannot limit ourselves by saying "We're causing this!" just because something radical is happening that hasn't happened in 100 years, or a thousand years, or hell, a million years. The timescales we're dealing with are much larger than we can even comprehend.

- Our Earth was once completely frozen, and on it's own, without any human interference, volcanic activity picked up on its own and naturally raised C02 levels to 350 times the current levels (with included human interference). This shows that drastic weather processes happen ON their own without any effect from us, and in quantities much larger than we're capable of affecting.

- Water Vapor is the #1 Greenhouse Gas in quantity and in effect (because of quantity).

- Water Vapor is produced 99.999 % naturally, and only influenced by about .001 % by humans.

Global Warming being caused by humans is a complete farce used to propel political means and influence behavior on a large scale.



Essentially,

-
Nice summary of truth watcher, yet through years of doing the same and showing the same type of charts I have learned from strain that many are just not going to listen ... even with charts and conclusions such as yours and scandals that have risen in the past few months with scientists linked to this farce.

It was just presented a few days ago "tuesday" that Fannie May owns the patent on the residential cap and trade exchange.  This would give Fannie May "who just gave us taxpayers an 127 billion dollar bill" the right to control the trading system if the Meanie Greenies get their way.

Major networks hide the scandals of global warming ... scientists are just now coming out about the scandal that hides the decline in global tempratures .... and most of all people are getting a clue!!!

I have said it many times and yet again I will say the same ... I am a great lover of nature and one who would protect it as much as any, yet if those in power believe that I as many will sit back as they steal our money and our freedom ... go to hell!!!!!

It is not going to happen ... watcher, just let many here argue with their ignorance and keep seeking truths as you have!!!  When the time comes ... "IF AT ALL" ... then you, I, many of us will stop this garbage and its stinch!!!

Do we need to better protect our resources and the earth????  You bet your donk!!!!
We need cleaner technologies .. I agree.  We need a cleaner earth ... I agree.  Yet we need more than all to clean up these agenda's before all hell breaks loose!!!

If these agenda's are passed, we will not need to worry about global warming ... the hell which will be the outcome will be hot enough!!!


#33    J.B.

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:24 PM

In the long run, I think the AGW theory, true or not, is going to do more harm than good. Mainly because we already knew we are damaging the environment, and this doomsday thing, with or without the added political BS, is just turning people off from the saving the planet movement.


#34    OverSword

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:44 PM

I have a question.  Can anyone say how much the sea levels have changed in the last few decades?


#35    danielost

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 12:10 AM

View PostOverSword, on 30 April 2010 - 11:44 PM, said:

I have a question.  Can anyone say how much the sea levels have changed in the last few decades?
http://en.wikipedia...._sea_level_rise

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#36    Mike D boy

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 01:01 AM

The logical explanation for a sudden warming trend the earth experienced higher or above-average degrees in the late 1980s, parts of the 1990s and early 2000s, then suddenly began to cool a degree or two celsius, is caused by the solar cycle: when flares and solar activity intensifies and peaks every 12 years such as the extreme northern lights in winter 1988-89 and spring 2001 observed in mid-latitudes in the Northern hemisphere, they were also the warmest years on record. In 2008 and 2009, the sun seem to gone quiet and most astronomers along side with climatologists agree the next hit by the solar cycle is 2013, the most likely time will be in the summer.

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#37    Raptor

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 02:26 AM

View PostWatchers, on 29 April 2010 - 09:07 PM, said:

And just to stir up the pot some more, those concepts essentially prove that Global Warming is a bunch of hippie crazed propaganda. Climatic changes are not influenced by humans, they are cyclical events that happen on a much larger scale. To think that we have anything to do with it is absolutely absurd.

Are we not, quite literally, changing the face of the planet? If we are, (and I may be mistaken but it certainly looks to me as though we are) I find it absurd to think that we couldn't be somehow influencing the climate.


#38    danielost

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 02:31 AM

View PostRaptor, on 01 May 2010 - 02:26 AM, said:

Are we not, quite literally, changing the face of the planet? If we are, (and I may be mistaken but it certainly looks to me as though we are) I find it absurd to think that we couldn't be somehow influencing the climate.
but we are just part of the earth nothing more or less.  thus what we are doing is only natural.  that is pointed at those of you who think there is nothig more than this life.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#39    Raptor

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 02:41 AM

View Postdanielost, on 01 May 2010 - 02:31 AM, said:

but we are just part of the earth nothing more or less.  thus what we are doing is only natural.  that is pointed at those of you who think there is nothig more than this life.

That logic doesn't get us anywhere because, by that definition, everything is natural. Nothing in the world happens unless the laws of nature permit it to. Regardless, what makes you think people wish to roll over and submit to the will of nature? A forest fire might be natural, but I'm certainly not going to sit around in the middle of one to see how things go.


#40    Blizno

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:24 AM

View PostRaptor, on 01 May 2010 - 02:41 AM, said:

That logic doesn't get us anywhere because, by that definition, everything is natural. Nothing in the world happens unless the laws of nature permit it to. Regardless, what makes you think people wish to roll over and submit to the will of nature? A forest fire might be natural, but I'm certainly not going to sit around in the middle of one to see how things go.

If I set fire to my house...my life gets very bad very fast.  Likewise, even though humanity is a product of natural selection, we have succeeded so very well that we are changing the planet itself.  We are setting fire to our one and only home.  There's nowhere to go after we ruin Earth.

Take a commercial flight over the USA.  You will see checkerboards of clear-cut forests, farms and cities.  That humanity is too small to affect the planet is simply preposterous.  The USA (the only nation over which I have flown) has been profoundly altered by human activity.  Brazil has been changing its rain forests on a similar scale for decades.  Big fish are getting hard to find in the oceans because humans have harvested most of the sea life.  Yes, we humans do affect Earth.  We place a HUGE burden upon this planet.  That humans, the 6 or 7 billion of us, can't possibly affect the planet, is laughable.

"Climatic changes are not influenced by humans, they are cyclical events that happen on a much larger scale. To think that we have anything to do with it is absolutely absurd."
My house has existed since long before I was born.  That my spilling a pan full of cooking oil on the stove could possibly have anything to do with my house's burning down is absolutely absurd...<snark>

I'll address the pro-warming and anti-warming arguments with one statement:
"Follow the money."

Who has hundreds of billions of dollars (pounds, Euros...) to lose because of this discussion?  Climatologists?  No.
The fossil fuel industry is one of the hugest drains of human capital on the planet.  The fossil fuel industry has everything to lose by humanity standing up and finally doing something about the devastation that we, ourselves, are causing.

Who is making vast wealth (hundreds of billions) from this "controversy"?  Climatologists?  Hippies?

Follow the money.

The universe is glorious beyond human comprehension.  Why add spirits and gods?  Just because we don't know how something happened doesn't mean that a god is needed to explain it.

#41    Blizno

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:45 AM

"once [sic] again your [sic] only looking at part of the picture. the [sic] rest of the picture that i [sic] know of, is that there is also a 70 (What?  Year?  Second?  Meter?) cycle which we are right now on the downward slide of and will be until about 2035, and another one at 100 years, i [sic] dont [sic] know where we are in that cycle. i [sic] have heard that there are other cycles as well. just [sic] dont [sic] much (Huh?) about them or where we are in those cycles. then [sic] the earths [sic] orbit changes on a regular basis which we seem to be in the process of doing now. plus [sic] the moons [sic] influence on the earth in increasing the earths day, that has to have an affect on temps too.
and [sic] you see this is the problem with human caused climate change. it [sic] isnt [sic] the truth, it may be part of the truth but not the whole truth or even close to it. and [sic] until we know what little changes we are making and can make without messing up the natural cycle we shouldnt [sic] do anything (What?  This statement makes no sense). because [sic] if we were able to change something without knowing the outcome (What???). guess [sic] what we're all dead.

Wow.  I'll try to decode your post.
You speak of solar cycles.  The sun has not been putting out more power for centuries.  There is a recurring eleven year cycle of sunspots, but that has nothing to do with the recorded warming since soon after the Industrial Revolution, when Britain and then other nations started burning ever-increasing amounts of coal, a fossil fuel.
You mumble about other cycles.  I am not familiar with a "70 (?) cycle", or the cycle you allude will do something in 100 years.  The best records show that the sun's output has had no correlation whatsoever with the increase in global temperatures and losses of sea ice and glaciers.  Indeed, it seems we should be starting a very, very slow decline into another ice age (over many thousands of years), yet the planet is warming very, very fast.
The moon is indeed moving farther away from the Earth and slowing Earth's spin in the process.  The moon has slowed Earth's day by a fraction of a second in total since the start of the Industrial Revolution.  The moon's drifting away from the Earth has had zero effect on global temperatures since long before human beings existed.

The universe is glorious beyond human comprehension.  Why add spirits and gods?  Just because we don't know how something happened doesn't mean that a god is needed to explain it.

#42    Blizno

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:55 AM

View PostWatchers, on 29 April 2010 - 09:07 PM, said:

...And just to stir up the pot some more, those concepts essentially prove that Global Warming is a bunch of hippie crazed propaganda. Climatic changes are not influenced by humans, they are cyclical events that happen on a much larger scale. To think that we have anything to do with it is absolutely absurd.

You are right that Earth's climate changes without human intervention.  It takes many thousands of years to do so.

However, the speed and scale of the present change, which correlates closely with the huge increase in atmospheric CO2 caused by the sudden, massive human burning of fossil fuels over the last hundred years, is nothing like a natural cycle.

This is artificial.  We are doing this.  Humans are causing this abnormally sudden, huge climate change.

The universe is glorious beyond human comprehension.  Why add spirits and gods?  Just because we don't know how something happened doesn't mean that a god is needed to explain it.

#43    Shadow_of_Man

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 04:01 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 30 April 2010 - 04:25 PM, said:

I've done the math, and almost nothing works out well.
We have dug ourselves a very deep hole and then burnt the ladder we needed to get out.
There are absolutely no easy solutions to the mess we are in.

The problem is that doing nothing is worse.

Br Cornelius



The government has already figured that out, when the WHO declares a epidemic with this flu and vaccine scam and shuts down the U.S. government and takes over the U.S. (and many other countries) and allow the U.N. to take over and the New World Order begins, the first thing they will do is kill off over have the population of the planet with the deadly 3 vaccine innocculations, the survivors will be part of the new Orwellian society.

If you think this sounds crazy just think realistically how else are they going to fix this over population problem.

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#44    Blizno

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 04:09 AM

View Postdanielost, on 29 April 2010 - 11:06 PM, said:

sounds [sic] to me like it is working the war [sic] it is supposed to work.  extra [sic] heat and mosture [sic] is removed at the poles water (?) as snow and heat is lost throught [sic] the hole in the ozone.

Ouch!
The hole in the ozone layer has nothing to do with the present climate change.  The present climate change is due to the huge increase in atmospheric CO2 caused by the human burning of fossil fuels.
The hole in the ozone layer was caused by the human use of certain chemicals, mainly refrigerants, that have since been banned and are no longer widely used.  The hole in the ozone layer (so much for humans being unable to change the Earth!) is very slowly healing but that has nothing to do with global warming.

The universe is glorious beyond human comprehension.  Why add spirits and gods?  Just because we don't know how something happened doesn't mean that a god is needed to explain it.

#45    Blizno

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 04:17 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 29 April 2010 - 10:54 PM, said:

...So a simplistic dismissal just doesn't do justice to the scientific work been done.

Br Cornelius

Brother Cornelius, you are an ape among apes.  I salute you.  OOOO oooo!

The universe is glorious beyond human comprehension.  Why add spirits and gods?  Just because we don't know how something happened doesn't mean that a god is needed to explain it.




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