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International gun control


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#46    Pseudo Intellectual

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 01:38 AM

View PostStartraveler, on 27 May 2010 - 12:16 AM, said:

Does murder being against the law lower the murder rate relative to what it would be if murder were legal?

Not by much, if you ask me.


#47    danielost

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 02:17 AM

View PostPseudo Intellectual, on 27 May 2010 - 01:38 AM, said:

Not by much, if you ask me.


isnt amazing when those who want to take away someones rights, they can come up with all kinds of reasons to do it.


and just for everyones info, i do not own a gun and never will.  but that too is my right, as is changing my mind in the future.

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#48    ninjadude

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 02:27 AM

View Postdanielost, on 27 May 2010 - 02:17 AM, said:

isnt amazing when those who want to take away someones supposed rights, they can come up with all kinds of reasons to do it.

there. fixed that for you. The 2nd amendment is about militias and we don't need them. IMO.

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#49    Wonder-Woman

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 03:27 AM

View Postninjadude, on 27 May 2010 - 02:27 AM, said:

there. fixed that for you. The 2nd amendment is about militias and we don't need them. IMO.


Yes, that is most DEFINITELY an opinion. If you read the second amendment, it also tells you that the PEOPLE'S right to bear arms shall not be violated. I personally do not own a gun and I am truly scared of them, but I believe the PEOPLE have the right to make that choice. I believe that a person needs to pass a psychological exam to make sure they are emotionally/mentally stable. They should also need to have their medical history looked at and take classes on everything to do with a gun.

Another post I read (many of them to be exact) stated that more guns means more violence, when in reality more criminals means more violence. We need the guns to protect us from more than burglars (let's not go into what a main reason could be) but from other things as well.

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

"A government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

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#50    Agent X

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 02:23 PM

View Postninjadude, on 27 May 2010 - 02:27 AM, said:

there. fixed that for you. The 2nd amendment is about militias and we don't need them. IMO.

No, it isn't this is one area you're misinformed on.

And there are plenty of resources to support this.

Quote

Introduction

The Second Amendment:

    A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

The original intent and purpose of the Second Amendment was to preserve and guarantee, not grant, the pre-existing right of individuals to keep and bear arms. Although the amendment emphasizes the need for a militia, membership in any militia, let alone a well-regulated one, was not intended to serve as a prerequisite for exercising the right to keep arms.

The Second Amendment preserves and guarantees an individual right for a collective purpose. That does not transform the right into a "collective right." The militia clause was a declaration of purpose, and preserving the people's right to keep and bear arms was the method the framers chose to, in-part, ensure the continuation of a well-regulated militia.

There is no contrary evidence from the writings of the Founding Fathers, early American legal commentators, or pre-twentieth century Supreme Court decisions, indicating that the Second Amendment was intended to apply solely to active militia members.

Source:

http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html

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#51    rashore

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 02:48 PM

View PostAgent X, on 26 May 2010 - 11:53 PM, said:

It's probably a joke.

Yes, it was humor when I stated Go take the guns the government is not taking away from you and chill...
That's why I put in the disclaimer, so some folks would not take that humor to mean literally go grab yourself a gun.

apparently my CMA wasn't covering enough.

But so long as second amendment has been brought up:

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

Not slamming any gun owners, but a lot of gun people I know do not own their firearm for the sake of any militia action. Several people I know when asked if they can get called into service as militia as the responsibility that goes along with the right... Some say- hell no, they can't draft me into service (especially as just a civilian!), they can't make me go anywhere.
I also have to say I know of a handful of gun people that do belong to clubs or ranges, and when asked about militia answer with, yes I know I might have to be militia because that's part of the responsibility, the government can come on over and ask my whole club to help out, we will be happy to. Usually it's followed with the statement- I hope to goodness that it never happens.

Here's a frightening notion... What would happen if the U.S. government decides to act on the second amendment, and calls for state militia to form up as being necessary to the security of the southern border? It wouldn't be a military draft per se, it's militia. What if any of the border states decides to use the second amendment that way?


#52    Agent X

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 03:03 PM

There would be a lot of opposition, and probably lawsuits to stop it. At least from the liberals. Many liberals consider militias are considered to be extremist hate groups.

Here's a couple of you tube videos for you to consider:





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#53    rashore

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:20 PM

View PostAgent X, on 27 May 2010 - 03:03 PM, said:

There would be a lot of opposition, and probably lawsuits to stop it. At least from the liberals. Many liberals consider militias are considered to be extremist hate groups.

Here's a couple of you tube videos for you to consider:





wow.. Those folks are embracing the entire second amendment, like, really embracing.


#54    ninjadude

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 01:39 AM

View PostWonder-Woman, on 27 May 2010 - 03:27 AM, said:

If you read the second amendment, it also tells you that the PEOPLE'S right to bear arms shall not be violated.

only if you misread it. It's clearly talking about militias.

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#55    ninjadude

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 01:40 AM

View PostAgent X, on 27 May 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:

And there are plenty of resources to support this.

NRA sources don't count. People clearly can't read the subject of the sentance.

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#56    ninjadude

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 01:43 AM

View Postrashore, on 27 May 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

Here's a frightening notion... What would happen if the U.S. government decides to act on the second amendment, and calls for state militia to form up as being necessary to the security of the southern border? It wouldn't be a military draft per se, it's militia. What if any of the border states decides to use the second amendment that way?

1) the federal government can not "call" for any such thing
2) lawlessness and vigilantism is still illegal regardless of what state it occurs.

Edited by ninjadude, 28 May 2010 - 01:43 AM.

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#57    Halfwolf

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 01:50 AM

Question: If within 21 feet of a criminal with a gun I could stop him and kill him with my thumb, Should my thumb be outlawed ?


#58    ninjadude

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 02:03 AM

View PostHalfwolf, on 28 May 2010 - 01:50 AM, said:

Question: If within 21 feet of a criminal with a gun I could stop him and kill him with my thumb, Should my thumb be outlawed ?

Could or did? Vigilantism is against the law. Hope you like your cell mates.

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#59    Rhomphaia

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 02:50 AM

View Postninjadude, on 28 May 2010 - 01:40 AM, said:

NRA sources don't count. People clearly can't read the subject of the sentance.
Militias and the people's right to bear arms are addressed as two separate subjects within the sentence...or did you just fail elementary school English or something? The presence of two separate subjects means that they are different. The state has a right to the regulation of a militia and the people as individuals have the right to bear arms. Courts have ruled time and again that gun bans are unconstitutional.

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#60    FraZZleD

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 03:09 AM

MORE GUNS LESS CRIME

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