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What is real


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#16    PsiSeeker

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:07 AM

I find subjectivity breaks down when looking at a broader spectrum of populace.  More definite "values" of "governance" become apparent.  You can actually just look at the "time frame" of your life to find how subjectivity created definites in any case.

"Everything is subjective" is incorrect and correct.  Probably why Socrates ended up with so many paradoxical statements and Quantum Mechanics doing the same since the English language hadn't/hasn't developed far enough to explain what was going on.

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.

#17    Black Hound

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:09 PM

Just wondering how does one define "what is real"? and what is "real" define as? Interesting posts, just trying to catch up with where it started and where it might be going.


#18    PsiSeeker

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 05:02 PM

View PostGraveyard Hound, on 23 July 2010 - 04:09 PM, said:

Just wondering how does one define "what is real"? and what is "real" define as? Interesting posts, just trying to catch up with where it started and where it might be going.

Accurately stated (in my opinion) in an earlier reply, "What is real is your perception of it."  The absolute context of "real" can change depending on your understanding of the idea.

Determinism is an interesting point however loses accuracy in "future states" as evolution doesn't appear to be redundant.  (One can argue that evolution is limited to the system that contains it (always approaching the limit of sustenance however never actually reaching it), which is probably why the human race appears to be conforming towards a virus more than anything.)) <- I think the reason this is occurring is because human idiocy hasn't evolved far enough to appreciate the fact that subjectivity breaks down on huge scales.

For me an interesting question brought up, Is there a difference between 'What is Real' and 'What is Actual?'  I think in any state where perception is apparent what is actual is perception outside of that state. Ie. perception outside of perception.  (Which makes sense, we can't prove 3 dimensions from 3 dimensions but we can prove 2 dimensions from 3 dimensions Ie. perception in 2 dimensions can be proved by perception from 3 dimensions.)

In my opinion where this is going after infinite iteration is trying to prove 3 dimensional existence (which is impossible using Mathematics which is ultimately 2 dimensional in nature.)

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.

#19    WolvenHeart7

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:16 PM

How do we know what is real or not? I agree with Unity. Our perception of reality is our own individual reality. So what is real for one may not be for others. Just as what one believes in is different from what others may believe in.

Edited by AliveInDeath, 23 July 2010 - 06:17 PM.


#20    Drayno

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 03:03 PM

View PostPsiSeeker, on 22 July 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

I find subjectivity breaks down when looking at a broader spectrum of populace.  More definite "values" of "governance" become apparent.  You can actually just look at the "time frame" of your life to find how subjectivity created definites in any case.

"Everything is subjective" is incorrect and correct.  Probably why Socrates ended up with so many paradoxical statements and Quantum Mechanics doing the same since the English language hadn't/hasn't developed far enough to explain what was going on.

Paradoxes are hard to avoid as most things in life are contradictory.

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#21    Meridianite

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 02:16 PM

Reality is what is agreed upon.Without agreement, there is no reality.
Bob and Jan see a dog, the dog is real. Bob sees a dog, Jan does not. There is no agreement, If Bob keeps on insisting there is a dog there that Jan can not see,Jan will likely think Bob is crazy. Bob sees something, it is real, if only to him. If Bob perceives something that Jan can not, is it less real?? Perhaps Jan falls into the group that doesn't have a clue of anything other the standard group logic and perception. Then again Bob may very well be crazy as hell.
Reality is what is perceived from the viewpoint that is perceiving it; the spirit. When several viewpoints perceive an event differently there is disagreement, so someone has to be labeled as crazy, if even to soothe other viewpoints and make them right.There is no absolute truth or reality.


#22    Shiloh17

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 06:22 PM

Even if we are a dream within someone elses life, in essence, we are real.


#23    StarMountainKid

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 06:23 PM

Spiritster said:

Reality is what is perceived from the viewpoint that is perceiving it

Can we ever define what is 'real' in the largest sense?  After all, we are imbedded in our own objective/subjective reality which is self-referential.  We can't see outside of our box because we are the box. All we can know is ourselves.

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To see reality loose your opinions.




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