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Human-caused Global Warming is Hogwash


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#16    NeoSavant

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 08:32 AM

View PostWickian, on 13 June 2010 - 07:55 AM, said:

Isn't the head of IPCC a mechanical engineer or something?

Yes he is. But seems nowadays if you get some fancy title that confers you know something it makes your opinion worth more than other scientists with credentials equal to or exceeding them mute. The IPCC is a UN funded organization with a vested interest in controlling world affairs. Also funny this is same guy who told skeptics to "rub their faces with asbestos", what a great scientist and human being. Most of the members of the touted mainstay for human caused climate change (ie IPCC) have less credentials than those that signed posted petition.

Quote

Rajendra Pachauri, the besieged head of the U.N.’s International Panel on Climate Change, told the Financial Times on Wednesday that he is the victim of a “carefully orchestrated” campaign to block climate change legislation. “I would say [there are] nefarious designs behind people trying to attack me with lies, falsehoods,” he told the paper, swatting away allegations that his India-based climate institute, TERI, has benefited from decisions made by the IPCC, which he also chairs. Climate change skeptics “are people who deny the link between smoking and cancer; they are people who say that asbestos is as good as talcum powder,” he said. “I hope that they apply it (asbestos) to their faces every day.”

Quote

Pachauri was born in Nainital, India. He was educated at La Martiniere College in Lucknow[4] and at the Indian Railways Institute of Mechanical and Electrical Engineering in Jamalpur, Bihar. He belongs to the Special Class Railway Apprentices, 1958 Batch, an elite scheme which heralded the beginning of mechanical engineering education in India. [citation needed]. He began his career with the Diesel Locomotive Works in Varanasi. Pachauri was awarded an MS degree in Industrial Engineering from North Carolina State University, Raleigh, in 1972, as well as a joint Ph.D. in Industrial Engineering and Economics in 1974.[5] He lives in Golf Links, New Delhi.[6] He is a strict vegetarian, partly due to his beliefs as a Hindu, and partly because of the impact of meat-production on the environment.[7]

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#17    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 08:41 AM

His point is that the same business funded "scientists" and lobby groups which prevented meaningful action on smoking and asbestos for 40yrs, are the self same people who are behind the well financed campaign to discredit climate science.
This is a fact and can be verified. Follow the money to find out where the dodgy science of climate skeptism is coming from. It seems perfectly reasonable to point out this if you happen to be the recipient of their smear campaign.

Wiki also has a good analysis of that 31,000 signature petition - and it doesn't come out very well, a great example of a totally misleading piece of propaganda. There are better lists of climate skeptics if you care to go beyond the obvious ones.

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Edited by Br Cornelius, 13 June 2010 - 08:51 AM.

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#18    NeoSavant

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 08:56 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 June 2010 - 08:41 AM, said:

His point is that the same business funded "scientists" and lobby groups which prevented meaningful action on smoking and asbestos for 40yrs, are the self same people who are behind the well financed campaign to discredit climate science.
This is a fact and can be verified. Follow the money to find out where the dodgy science of climate skeptism is coming from. It seems perfectly reasonable to point out this if you happen to be the recipient of their smear campaign.

Br Cornelius

I guess all 31k scientist that signed the petition in the US are simply part of this "conspiracy" campaign to discredit AGW. Thats like when people say you disagree with War on Terror and calling them unpatriotic. While I'm sure there are vested interests on both sides, mainstream science acts like its some fringe group that disputes AGW, when in actuality its more independent scientists who refute AGW than support it. There are more organizations and lobbies that have vested interest financially (due to grants and funding for research on AGW) in the touted IPCC who represent where the real corruption lies. With the head of the IPCC being a non-specialist in the area of climate it shows you its a joke and what the true motive and intention is behind the panel.

Edited by NeoSavant, 13 June 2010 - 08:58 AM.


#19    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 09:09 AM

View PostNeoSavant, on 13 June 2010 - 08:56 AM, said:

I guess all 31k scientist that signed the petition in the US are simply part of this "conspiracy" campaign to discredit AGW. Thats like when people say you disagree with War on Terror and calling them unpatriotic. While I'm sure there are vested interests on both sides, mainstream science acts like its some fringe group that disputes AGW, when in actuality its more independent scientists who refute AGW than support it. There are more organizations and lobbies that have vested interest financially (due to grants and funding for research on AGW) in the touted IPCC who represent where the real corruption lies. With the head of the IPCC being a non-specialist in the area of climate it shows you its a joke and what the true motive and intention is behind the panel.

Put simply there was no need to verify your credentials to sign that petition, and almost none of them have any experience relevant to the field of climatology. On top of that a representative sampling was unable to verify a significant proportion of the signitaries authenticity. That maybe good enough for you, but it doesn't pass muster with real scientists.

You know what, I really don't care what you "BELIEVE" about climate change. Go ahead and destroy you support system - it won't ultimately make a shred of difference to the outcome of the universe. I just hope it wont be to painful for my children.

Br Cornelius

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#20    Fernand0

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 09:58 AM

Global warming is not a problem science can't fix in the foreseeable future.

*snip irrelevant stuff - that isn't the topic here*

Edited by Paranormalcy, 13 June 2010 - 08:33 PM.


#21    NeoSavant

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:05 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 June 2010 - 09:09 AM, said:

Put simply there was no need to verify your credentials to sign that petition, and almost none of them have any experience relevant to the field of climatology. On top of that a representative sampling was unable to verify a significant proportion of the signitaries authenticity. That maybe good enough for you, but it doesn't pass muster with real scientists.

You know what, I really don't care what you "BELIEVE" about climate change. Go ahead and destroy you support system - it won't ultimately make a shred of difference to the outcome of the universe. I just hope it wont be to painful for my children.

Br Cornelius

If you can be a mechanical engineer and head IPCC then what credentials do you need to refute the evidence? To verify who they are and if they signed it is quite easy, Google is your friend and I'm sure if they were added without their consent their would have been a huge backlash of names removed when its widely available.

You know what, I really dont care what you "BELIEVE" about climate change until you show me this proof you seem to keep avoiding the issue and my posts with simple rejection while posting no sources and just opinion like you can will someone into believing it just because you do. Go ahead and destroy life as we know it and become a green-slave behind an unproven, unrealistic, and unsupported theory. The sun and its cycles has a vastly higher effect on the climate of Earth and is the real factor behind what is going on not anything we are doing to Earth with carbon emmissions. Deforestation, release of chemicals, etc not carbon emissions is the real threat to our planet and children.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Rest of the useful diagrams and source here.

Edited by NeoSavant, 13 June 2010 - 11:07 AM.


#22    Mattshark

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:11 AM

View PostNeoSavant, on 13 June 2010 - 12:13 AM, said:

I love the argument that Global-warming and CO2 emissions are the cause for climate change on Earth. Seems they totally avoid the facts of Solar cycles and the output of solar energy's effect on Earth.
It doesn't, it completely incorporates that. Never mind eh.
http://www.atmos.was...cted_trends.pdf

Repeating the same fallacious arguments.

Edited by Mattshark, 13 June 2010 - 11:18 AM.

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#23    Mattshark

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:13 AM

View PostNeoSavant, on 13 June 2010 - 11:05 AM, said:

If you can be a mechanical engineer and head IPCC then what credentials do you need to refute the evidence? To verify who they are and if they signed it is quite easy, Google is your friend and I'm sure if they were added without their consent their would have been a huge backlash of names removed when its widely available.

You know what, I really dont care what you "BELIEVE" about climate change until you show me this proof you seem to keep avoiding the issue and my posts with simple rejection while posting no sources and just opinion like you can will someone into believing it just because you do. Go ahead and destroy life as we know it and become a green-slave behind an unproven, unrealistic, and unsupported theory. The sun and its cycles has a vastly higher effect on the climate of Earth and is the real factor behind what is going on not anything we are doing to Earth with carbon emmissions. Deforestation, release of chemicals, etc not carbon emissions is the real threat to our planet and children.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Rest of the useful diagrams and source here.

Your graphs are deliberate misinterpretations of evidence, they do not match those coming out of real studies on climatology, never mind eh.

Posted Image

Notice how numerous studies say you are wrong.

Edited by Mattshark, 13 June 2010 - 11:22 AM.

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#24    danielost

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:21 AM

View Postninjadude, on 13 June 2010 - 03:31 AM, said:

The solar output has not changed in any significant way. The 11 year solar cycle is of sunspot activity. Our weather does not oscillate in 11 year cycles.
http://personal.inet...i/sunspot5.html

this cycle may have something to do with climate change.


by the way the 11 year cycle is an increase of sunspots, sunspots are areas of the sun where more radiation is getting to the surface,  but it is also an increase in the mass ejection thing.  ie more material is thrown into space and if that hits the earth then it would change our weather.  which means that in the long 22 year cycle there wouldnt be much change in the output of radiation from the sun, but these mass ejections are carry a lot of radiation that wouldnt normally be leaving the sun.  and we know when those hit the earth because it messes with our electronics.  in fact, i think it was, in 2000 half of canada went dark because of one of these things.

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#25    danielost

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:24 AM

View PostMattshark, on 13 June 2010 - 11:11 AM, said:

It doesn't, it completely incorporates that. Never mind eh.
http://www.atmos.was...cted_trends.pdf

Repeating the same fallacious arguments.


from your link)))



We have no direct measure of TSI variations on century time scales,

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#26    Mattshark

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:26 AM

View Postdanielost, on 13 June 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

from your link)))



We have no direct measure of TSI variations on century time scales,

So? What is you point.
Solar activity declining - Temperature increasing.

Nice to see your are making fallacious arguments. No surprise that Neosavant is, it is the creationists way.

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#27    Mattshark

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:30 AM

View PostNeoSavant, on 13 June 2010 - 08:32 AM, said:

Yes he is. But seems nowadays if you get some fancy title that confers you know something it makes your opinion worth more than other scientists with credentials equal to or exceeding them mute. The IPCC is a UN funded organization with a vested interest in controlling world affairs. Also funny this is same guy who told skeptics to "rub their faces with asbestos", what a great scientist and human being. Most of the members of the touted mainstay for human caused climate change (ie IPCC) have less credentials than those that signed posted petition.
No, having a scientific education does though
The IPCC doesn't do science, it produces reports that use science done by a far greater number of scientists who work around scientific institutions who produce overwhelming evidence that we are the primary driving force behind current climate change.  
So that is either you completely not understanding this in the slightest or being dishonest.

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#28    danielost

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:36 AM

View PostMattshark, on 13 June 2010 - 11:26 AM, said:

So? What is you point.
Solar activity declining - Temperature increasing.

Nice to see your are making fallacious arguments. No surprise that Neosavant is, it is the creationists way.


so my point is we dont know if there is an increase in radiation or not.  says so in your link.  'nough said

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#29    danielost

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:47 AM

View PostMattshark, on 13 June 2010 - 11:30 AM, said:

No, having a scientific education does though
The IPCC doesn't do science, it produces reports that use science done by a far greater number of scientists who work around scientific institutions who produce overwhelming evidence that we are the primary driving force behind current climate change.  
So that is either you completely not understanding this in the slightest or being dishonest.


so if you don't have a degree you cant understand science.  OK then i guess we will have to scratch the Galilean moons since Galileo didn't have a degree.  in fact most people of that time period were self taught.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#30    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:34 PM

View Postdanielost, on 13 June 2010 - 11:47 AM, said:

so if you don't have a degree you cant understand science.  OK then i guess we will have to scratch the Galilean moons since Galileo didn't have a degree.  in fact most people of that time period were self taught.

Unfortunately you don't want to face up to your ignorance of the real issues here. Having a degree is not enough, having a relevant degree is what actually matters, and even then the issues are so fundamentally complex that it doesn't guarantee a good understanding of the issues. Having no actual scientific training and a hurt pride certainly makes you about the least qualified person to make any legitimate contribution to the debate.
As a trained scientist myself and Matt understand that this is no easy subject to get to grips with - but apparently its so simple that anyone with a strong gut feeling and access to dodgy paid skeptic sites can call our bluff.

For those who have followed these debates on UM, they will realise that if you can present a genuinely challenging piece of evidence in support of the skeptics cliams, I for one am open to listen. So far on this thread nothing comes close.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 13 June 2010 - 12:37 PM.

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