Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Human-caused Global Warming is Hogwash


  • Please log in to reply
118 replies to this topic

#31    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,828 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:40 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 June 2010 - 12:34 PM, said:

Unfortunately you don't want to face up to your ignorance of the real issues here. Having a degree is not enough, having a relevant degree is what actually matters, and even then the issues are so fundamentally complex that it doesn't guarantee a good understanding of the issues. Having no actual scientific training and a hurt pride certainly makes you about the least qualified person to make any legitimate contribution to the debate.
As a trained scientist myself and Matt understand that this is no easy subject to get to grips with - but apparently its so simple that anyone with a strong gut feeling and access to dodgy paid skeptic sites can call our bluff.

For those who have followed these debates on UM, they will realise that if you can present a genuinely challenging piece of evidence in support of the skeptics cliams, I for one am open to listen. So far on this thread nothing comes close.

Br Cornelius


so when do they start to issue degrees into fields that are ground breaking such as climetalgy is.


i dont need a degree to be able to read the words, we dont have a reading on the amount of radiation coming in to the earth  for a hundred years, so we dont know if there is a change in radiation or not.(paraphrased.)  and that was matts. link.  now get out of that one.

Edited by danielost, 13 June 2010 - 12:41 PM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#32    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,801 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:43 PM

View Postdanielost, on 13 June 2010 - 12:40 PM, said:

so when do they start to issue degrees into fields that are ground breaking such as climetalgy is.


i dont need a degree to be able to read the words, we dont have a reading on the amount of radiation coming in to the earth  for a hundred years, so we dont know if there is a change in radiation or not.(paraphrased.)  and that was matts. link.  now get out of that one.

There are proxies available which allow good estimates of the factors you talk about. They have not been ignored.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#33    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,828 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:46 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 June 2010 - 12:43 PM, said:

There are proxies available which allow good estimates of the factors you talk about. They have not been ignored.

Br Cornelius


proxies are manipulated data, not real data.  for instance 9 out of 10 doctors agree that asperian will get rid of headaches.  now does that mean that out of the next 10 doctors that you ask they will all agree to the asperian getting rid of headaches no.  and all i had to do to get that info, if i actual did the research, was talk to 10 doctors.   the rest is a proxie.

Edited by danielost, 13 June 2010 - 12:48 PM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#34    Ealdwita

Ealdwita

    Hwt oredmcg

  • Member
  • 5,275 posts
  • Joined:08 Jun 2010
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:49 PM

It's a fabulous excuse to raise taxes though, isn't it? Governments love it - just as they found terrorism a nice excuse to erode our personal liberties. "It's for your own good!"  :angry2:

"Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel, ac gecnáwan þín gefá!": "Fate goes ever as she shall, but know thine enemy!".
I can teach you with a quip, if I've a mind; I can trick you into learning with a laugh; Oh, winnow all my folly and you'll find, A grain or two of truth among the chaff!
(The Yeoman of the Guard ~ Gilbert and Sullivan)

#35    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,828 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:50 PM

View Postealdwita, on 13 June 2010 - 12:49 PM, said:

It's a fabulous excuse to raise taxes though, isn't it? Governments love it - just as they found terrorism a nice excuse to erode our personal liberties. "It's for your own good!"  :angry2:
your right.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#36    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,801 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:51 PM

View Postdanielost, on 13 June 2010 - 12:46 PM, said:

proxies are manipulated data, not real data.  for instance 9 out of 10 doctors agree that asperian will get rid of headaches.  now does that mean that out of the next 10 doctors that you ask they will all agree to the asperian getting rid of headaches no.  and all i had to do to get that info, if i actual did the research, was talk to 10 doctors.   the rest is a proxie.

Proxies are empirically derived correlations. Atomic Isotopes are good indicators of origin and quantity of CO2 and Isotopic Oxygen is an excellent indicator of historic temperatures and solar activity. Dendrochronology is a less certain science (and has recently caused controversy), but in tandem with Isotopic indicators provides useful historic trend data.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#37    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,801 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:55 PM

View Postealdwita, on 13 June 2010 - 12:49 PM, said:

It's a fabulous excuse to raise taxes though, isn't it? Governments love it - just as they found terrorism a nice excuse to erode our personal liberties. "It's for your own good!"  :angry2:

And that is all you can see, it blinds you to the wealth of scientific research.
I am not an advocate of the tax carbon out of existance solution which governments have decided upon, but it is you and I who elect our representatives and if one of them presents a superior solution then its up to us to elect them. Unfortunately the real lasting solutions are far more radical and I suspect that few would support them - so we are left with ineffectual taxes to try to solve a fundamentally systemic problem.
The first step is to disentangle the science from your opinions about politics.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 13 June 2010 - 12:56 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#38    Mattshark

Mattshark

    stuff

  • Member
  • 16,985 posts
  • Joined:29 Dec 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Liverpool, UK

  • Sea Shepherd, making conservation harder.

    If you care about wildlife, do not support these pirates.......

Posted 13 June 2010 - 01:54 PM

View Postdanielost, on 13 June 2010 - 11:36 AM, said:

so my point is we dont know if there is an increase in radiation or not.  says so in your link.  'nough said

No, it says we can't show that over a century, not over recent periods. Again, you are misrepresenting.

Algae : Protists not Plants!

YNWA

#39    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,828 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 13 June 2010 - 02:16 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 June 2010 - 12:51 PM, said:

Proxies are empirically derived correlations. Atomic Isotopes are good indicators of origin and quantity of CO2 and Isotopic Oxygen is an excellent indicator of historic temperatures and solar activity. Dendrochronology is a less certain science (and has recently caused controversy), but in tandem with Isotopic indicators provides useful historic trend data.

Br Cornelius
so a wild fire wouldnt leave the same foot print as a camp fire or a stove or a wood fired train.  and coal which comes from trees wont leave the same type of foot print.  of course oil which comes from animals may have a different footprint

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#40    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,828 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 13 June 2010 - 02:18 PM

View PostMattshark, on 13 June 2010 - 01:54 PM, said:

No, it says we can't show that over a century, not over recent periods. Again, you are misrepresenting.


your right we can show that for over 10 years or so.  that means nothing.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#41    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,801 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 13 June 2010 - 02:25 PM

View Postdanielost, on 13 June 2010 - 02:16 PM, said:

so a wild fire wouldnt leave the same foot print as a camp fire or a stove or a wood fired train.  and coal which comes from trees wont leave the same type of foot print.  of course oil which comes from animals may have a different footprint

The carbon from fossil fuels has a different isotopic footprint to burnt cellulose because of the millions of years it has been out of circulation in the deep earth. This is detectable in the CO2 that it produces. So by analysing the composition of current air we can know where the different contribution have come from and this allows us to estimate the % contribution of fossil fuel sourced carbon dioxide.
Its remarkable what science can tell us about the world around us, and its certainly not guesswork.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#42    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,828 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 13 June 2010 - 02:29 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 June 2010 - 02:25 PM, said:

The carbon from fossil fuels has a different isotopic footprint to burnt cellulose because of the millions of years it has been out of circulation in the deep earth. This is detectable in the CO2 that it produces. So by analysing the composition of current air we can know where the different contribution have come from and this allows us to estimate the % contribution of fossil fuel sourced carbon dioxide.
Its remarkable what science can tell us about the world around us, and its certainly not guesswork.

Br Cornelius


then the carbin burps from the other thread would have simular footieprints to the fossil fuel.  depending on length of time it has been buried in the ground too.


dont try to play me for an idiot.  i can manipulate info too, i usually dont but i can.

Edited by danielost, 13 June 2010 - 02:31 PM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#43    Astute One

Astute One

    Conspiracy Theorist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 892 posts
  • Joined:15 Jan 2010
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 June 2010 - 02:48 PM

View Postdanielost, on 13 June 2010 - 02:18 PM, said:

your right we can show that for over 10 years or so.  that means nothing.

Hey Daniel,
I see the AGW ministers are at it again. They continue in violation of 2j.  They keep preaching their AGW agenda to no avail.  They refuse to acknowledge any data that does not support their religious belief. They, Matt and Corne, say they are scientists but refuse to accept scientific data that shows they are wrong.  They say they use the scientific method but have shown on many threads that they use the S.M. selectively, and only when it suits them.  They will call others names and attempt to discredit rather than focus on the science just like a minister trying to say evolution isn't real.  

Maybe one day, these guys will become scientists and recognize all the data and draw conclusions that are not preconceived.  Once they decide to go in the direction that the data takes them and not the direction the AGW church directs them, then they may stand the chance of really becoming scientists one day.  I won't hold my breath.  I think they will never get it.  Just like some alcoholics never realize they can't take that first drink.

I am afraid there is a lot of pain coming, and AGW has nothing to do with it.

Edited by Astute One, 13 June 2010 - 02:53 PM.


#44    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,828 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 13 June 2010 - 02:49 PM

View PostAstute One, on 13 June 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

Hey Daniel,
I see the AGW ministers are at it again. They continue in violation of 2j.  They keep preaching their AGW agenda to no avail.  They refuse to acknowledge any data that does not support their religious belief. They, Matt and Corne, say they are scientists but refuse to accept scientific data that shows they are wrong.  They say they use the scientific method but have shown on many threads that they use the S.M. selectively, and only when it suits them.  They will call others names and attempt to discredit rather than focus on the science just like a minister trying to say evolution isn't real.  

Maybe one day, these guys will become scientists and recognize all the data and draw conclusions that are not preconceived.  Once they decide to go in the direction that the data takes them and not the direction the AGW church directs them, then they may stand the chance of really becoming scientists one day.  I won't hold my breath.  I think they will never get it.  Just like some alcoholics never realize they can't take that first drink.


thats because those scientists that show them to be wrong arent really scientists just ask them.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#45    Astute One

Astute One

    Conspiracy Theorist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 892 posts
  • Joined:15 Jan 2010
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 June 2010 - 03:04 PM

View Postdanielost, on 13 June 2010 - 02:49 PM, said:

thats because those scientists that show them to be wrong arent really scientists just ask them.
I know. The ones who really know how to work the scientific method and who do not let preconceived ideas interfere with scientific interpretation are not scientist to them.  These AGW guys are so good that they can steer any data and skew it and make it fit their agenda no matter what; and if they can't for some reason, the data is considered bad data.  It's either the datas fault or the scientists who collected it.  I guess their AGW God has told them that they can never be wrong.  Sometimes I wish Al would just shut up because these AGW ministers in training are nauseating.

Edited by Astute One, 13 June 2010 - 03:04 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users