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#1    Unorthodox Thesis

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 11:34 PM

Greetings. I am Norman. Please let us start a discussion about spirituality.
Who in here believes in God, and who does't? Bring it on folk!  cool.gif  Share your
thoughts:

Edited by Norman, 08 July 2004 - 11:35 PM.


#2    BurnSide

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 11:39 PM

What are your beliefs on it Norman?

I personally an an Athiest, i don't believe in any god or religion. But that does not stop me admiring other peoples religions and beliefs.


#3    aquatus1

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 01:51 AM

I too became an atheist just last week after a decade long stint as an agnostic.  I am simply too much a scientist to be comfortable in having faith without corroborating evidence.

Having said that, I have no problem thinking of myself as a very spiritual person.  I do not believe the human spirit has any need of gods, goddesses, or any sort of paranatural phenomena to exist.

Incidentally, is it just me or do I detect a bit of chest thumping in this thread?  I take it you are looking for a 'spirited' debate? ;-)

Edited by aquatus1, 09 July 2004 - 01:52 AM.


#4    RyuujinBlueZ

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 01:56 AM

Like the previous two, I'm an atheist. Have been my entire life, though to kill the question before it starts I wasn't raised as such.

I'm still extremely...spiritual, for lack of a better word. My beliefs are quite odd, and in many cases not fully thought out. That's largely because I'm still working on them, changing them to fit new information.

Which isn't to say I'm an idiot, or don't know anything.

Feel free to give me a buzz Norman, either in this topic, PM me, or even go to my profile and grab any IM info I might have in there.


I always enjoy a nice discussion.  grin2.gif  

You walk by me every day, but you have no idea.
I sit there, in the corner all alone.
If I got up, would you know then?
What would be your last thoughts,
As I slit your throat and drank of the sight of your blood.
Would you think, "Who is this person?"
Or would it be, "I should have kept walking, today."

#5    Todd

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 02:53 AM

Greetings Norman,

I'm a Christian and proud to be one.

Are you as well?


#6    Me_Again

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 03:29 AM

  wub.gif  Oh I believe in our creator and I believe we are creators ourselves. Now who created the God you are talking about? That is the question. We all know we were created right? But who created our creator, maybe it was the aliens j/k  wink2.gif  The question I have to answer for myself is this...
Is there just one all powerful creator, the creator of it all. Who holds the secrets to all of these mysteries, and all of these questions in my mind. Or are the possibilites endless, literally. This I know to be true for me, I feel my best when I listen to my highest thought and acknowledge that others highest thoughts are nothing like mine. When we as a human race, all at once accept each other. Well that would be my idea of heaven on earth...

Yellow Smiley offers me X
Like he's drinkin’ 7-Up
I would rather drink 6 razor blades
Razor blades from a paper cup
He can't understand, I say 2 tough
It's just that I've seen the future and, boy, it's rough
-Prince, 'The Future'

#7    Novo

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 03:55 AM

Ok norman, give my some conclusive proof of the christian God.I was once a strong christian norman.But then I saw that people kill other people because of beliefs,What motivated bin laden? Words in a book written 2000 years ago, what motivated the crusades? words in a book written 2000 years. whats motivating bush? Idioism and the belief that Gods sending him messages, and I quote
"First god told me to strike at bin laden,Then the al queda and now saddam"-President Bush 2004.If theres a God out there norman who loves us all oh so much why does he tell us to hate and judge? I would be willing to take my chances betting he's not. Im not stating there is no "God" but far more likely It's a being of a higher consciouness. Not a figure of fantasy in a book. I think if the all knowing loving God as the bible portrays him is so real then why is he condemning people to hell.

The stupider people think you are, the more suprised they are when you kill them.
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#8    Seraphina

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 10:18 AM

I...*dramatic pause*....am an athiest. This not a subject that is difficult to research tongue.gif

Student&Alive, I'm afraid asking for proof of the Christian God is pointless. There isn't any, and what's more (and slightly frightening), they don't seem to need any. Starting up another one of those debates is likely to just get the topic locked in short order. We had a very pleasant "what do you believe" thread a while ago, or some such thing....this might be a chance to let newer members give their input so long as it remains open, eh? tongue.gif  

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Apparantly, over on Exchristian.Net, they say that I'm "probably the smartest person" on UM....that is so cool...

#9    Liutas

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 12:41 PM



QUOTE
Ok norman, give my some conclusive proof of the christian God.I was once a strong christian norman.But then I saw that people kill other people because of beliefs


I'm a recovering Catholic who has slowly been moving towards a very confused idea of faith, reality and spirituality that i don't pretend to understand fully (indeed i think if i ever do understand it fully, then i have made a mistake somewhere).

QUOTE
What motivated bin laden? Words in a book written 2000 years ago, what motivated the crusades? words in a book written 2000 years.


On a note of pure pedantry "bin Laden's book" is only about 1500 years old. It';s interesting that you mentioned the crusades as well, after all when Christianity was 1500 years old it did pretty much what extremeist muslims are doing now. For pretty much the same reasons...

QUOTE
I think if the all knowing loving God as the bible portrays him is so real then why is he condemning people to hell.


Ahhh but is he? Certainly the church says he does as do the books written by men but because men say these things, does it make them real?


#10    Liutas

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 12:50 PM

QUOTE
I'm afraid asking for proof of the Christian God is pointless. There isn't any, and what's more (and slightly frightening), they don't seem to need any.


The question is what do you define as proof. I have proof as to the existance of my gods but it is proof you would not accept as such. You would likely suggest that i was simply deluding myself if i told you that in times of great distress, I feel Laima's arm around my shoulder comforting me or that i was crazy because i hear her tell me it will be ok. You would like as not say that this is not proof.

To you it is not. To me it is all the proof i need.


#11    BurnSide

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 02:13 PM

There will NEVER be any proof. There has never been any proof.

However, some will argue that the holy Bible is all the proof they need, and they will argue that the Church is witness to everything the bible says, and that's all they need.
Proof is not a book written by a bunch of kids 2000 years ago, not is it the spoken word of a power hungry organisation. And it is definately not a 'feeling' you get in your head.

I personally cannot accept these as proof.
But there will always be Religion. People need it to justify their lives because they cannot accept that we are animals, whos sole purpose on the earth is to have sex, bare children and die and rott away in the ground.

Why don't other animals have religion? Because they're not intelligent enough to delude themselves.
Why are there so many different religions, instead of just one? Because all evolutions of man are the same, they need religion to justify themselves, so they make up gods to worship.

Religion is murder. It is a cult. You blindly follow what some random dude says because he hears voices. Men kill for their gods when, wait, isn't that AGAINST their religion?
Hell, the very religion doesn't make sense. If something this big is gonna be made up, don't make it contradict itself with teachings on how bad it is to have sex and inbred, when the religion clearly states that every human being on earth is inbred from 2 humans who suddenly popped one day into existance.

*sigh* It's the most irrational, silly thing on the planet. But if you need it to get through your day, good for you.


#12    Unorthodox Thesis

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 02:20 PM

Alright. People are replying way too fast. I can't keep track of all comments.
I am also a christian. However, I do not believe that YOU are an atheist.
Because an atheist thinks there is no God.
Let me explain:
For you to claim that there is NO God, you'd have to know everything about
that particular subject. For example, if I said that there is NO gold in china,
I would have to know that there really is't gold in china. See? I would have
to search all of china for gold, so that I could believe that there is no gold in china.
However, if I say there is gold in china, all I have to do is look for one piece of
gold and that will assure me that there is indeed gold in china. Therefore, in the
same way, no one can say that there is no GOD, because you do not really know
if there is a God. And my friends there is a God and I can proove it. See, the Bible
says that God prooves Himself through His creation and wise thinking. Do you
really think that the human eye- so complex and so well designed, and all
the wonders of the universe, our brains our ability to love and hate, and
the starts and the oceans...

Can you truly say that there is no God? I think thats
a fair argument. However, humans believe in what they can see. Therefore, we
have to look at God as an entity which we cannot. Lets take the law of gravity
of example. For example, you're standing on top of a tall building, and you're
thinking of jumping off. Now, can you see gravity? NO. But it is still there.
Gravity can be tested... yes. So can God. If you die right now, for any reason,
I assure you that you will meet GOD. This is genuine proof. Yet there is another
way to experience GOD. If you become a christian, and trust in God with
all your heart, then you will KNOW God. It is written in our hearts as
a signature of a great masterpiece, that GOD created us. Not an explosion,
not gasses and chemicals, not the ocean. Think of it this way... Whitch is easier
to believe?.... That our intelligence came from nothing, or that our intelligence
came from a higher intelligence? I think I am intelligent enough to know
the right answer. There is a God, and there is an Evil force called Satan.
See, science is like a box that limits reality. Science can be prooven yes. But so can everything else outside of the box. Try to think outside of the box. Realize that there is more to what we can see. If there is a painting, how do you know that there is't a painter? How do you know that your car was made, and it did't just appear? How do you know that you did't come from nothing? See, if we came from nothing, then we are the product of nothing! Do you know what you get when you multiply any number with zero? ZERO! Nothing! If we came from nothing,
or a mere explosion, then we should not be here. How can you think that
there is no God?
Yes, you respect all religions... Sure. But there is only 1
major belief that is the truth. And that is christianity. God exists,
and you exist. You cannot deny it. But which is the right faith? The Bible.
Slow down for a minute and realize that atheists are simply confused.

edited Islam part... don't start a flame war please? read rules if in doubt

Edited by Kira, 09 July 2004 - 03:33 PM.


#13    GemStar

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 02:26 PM

i dont believe in god but i think there is good and bad forces witch we are faced with each choice and i think there is temptation everywhere in todays society. wink2.gif
we all need faith weather that in god or in your self.
if anyone has spoke to god or he or she has to you tell them to sort out the things related to religion ty.




Edited you didn't need three posts say all this... whistling2.gif  

Edited by Kira, 09 July 2004 - 03:29 PM.


#14    BurnSide

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 03:09 PM

Norman, you just said that all religions except christianity are false.
That is the single, silliest comment i have ever heard.
You sir, have proved my point.

And it's a contradiction too. How do you know there IS a god. You don't.  


#15    odinsgrl

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 03:21 PM

QUOTE
You cannot deny it. But which is the right faith? The Bible.
Slow down for a minute and realize that atheists are simply confused.


I wouldn't call them confused. They just do not believe in the Christian God, or any other God or higher being. That is thier belief. They seem pretty darn sure of it, that doesn't sound confusing to me.

I do not believe in the Christian God, either. But I do understand that there are people out there, who believe a different way that I do, and I totally respect and accept that. And if it happens to be, that they don't believe in any higher power, so be it. I do not look down on others for thier belief or disbelief. Thats the wonderful thing about people, they are all so different! Yay!



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"What are they?"
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