196 replies to this topic

[Gummug]

I don't think the paranormal will ever be proven, because if you see something and you're a believer and report it, it's "hearsay", wouldn't even stand up in a court of law...if you see something and you've already discounted the supernatural, then it's a trick of your mind, or a trick of the shadows or whatever. I think even if a believer and a skeptic saw the same ghost at the same time, the believer would be inclined to a supernatural explanation, whereas the skeptic would believe in a shared hallucination or mass hypnosis or something of the sort...beliefs can not only influence the senses but probably overrule them as well.

Edited by Gummug, 21 June 2010 - 12:48 AM.

[markprice]

Agent. Mulder, on 20 June 2010 - 11:27 PM, said:

dont gotta prove they dont exist.
you only have to prove they do if you believe in them, or say they exist.
as of now, they dont necessarily exist.

You only have to prove they don't exist if you claim the don't exist. No claim no proof required, BUT for a child who can see something... they get the benifit of the doubt IMO because they have no consideration for proof: it just occurred. Any psychologist can knock themself out figuring WHY something occurred, but then the kid gets stuck with a diagnosis that may or may not be accurate. MEDICATE! Oh god, poor kids.

[Agent. Mulder]

Gummug, on 21 June 2010 - 12:46 AM, said:

I don't think the paranormal will ever be proven, because if you see something and you're a believer and report it, it's "hearsay", wouldn't even stand up in a court of law...if you see something and you've already discounted the supernatural, then it's a trick of your mind, or a trick of the shadows or whatever. I think even if a believer and a skeptic saw the same ghost at the same time, the believer would be inclined to a supernatural explanation, whereas the skeptic would believe in a shared hallucination or mass hypnosis or something of the sort...beliefs can not only influence the senses but probably overrule them as well.

well, for one, the believer is Already biased, so they would come to that conclusion. the non believer wouldnt claim a hallucination, if they experienced it they would either be a believer, or try to deduce what it was using logic first, and examining why something happened and taking all things into account. and possibly give a more down to earth explanation.

[Hawkin]

sagestar, on 20 June 2010 - 02:55 PM, said:

My daughter see's ghosts. She has seen them since she was a toddler, she is 11 now.  She also had an what you would call an "imaginary friend" that she would talk to and play with.  I know she does see these ghosts, because I can see them to, and we would see the same ghost, and describe the ghost to each other.  As a baby, her battery operated toys would go off in her room all the time, while she was sleeping.  We continue to get spirits in our home.

My sister died a few years before my great neice was born. When my great neice was 2 yrs. old, My nephew claimed that when she was in bed at night,
He can hear her talking and giggle and said the word grandma. Also, Animals like small children seem to have a 6th sense. When my dad died, My dog
was lying on the couch, then suddenly rose up and looked to her right starring into space. As if someone sat down next to her. My nephew had a
simular situation with his dog shortly after dad died. It is always said that when a family member dies, they hang around awhile and observe family.

[czech_mate55]

Agent. Mulder, on 20 June 2010 - 03:40 PM, said:

you didnt think he could have actually seen a Real, creepy looking man under a tree, visiting a grave in the cemetary?

No...I was with him and there was no one else there.  I even took a picture of the tree to see if anything showed up.  I didn't see anything in the picture but when I showed it to him about a week later, he recognized it and made a comment about the man.

[Gummug]

"well, for one, the believer is Already biased, so they would come to that conclusion. the non believer wouldnt claim a hallucination, if they experienced it they would either be a believer, or try to deduce what it was using logic first, and examining why something happened and taking all things into account. and possibly give a more down to earth explanation."

I suppose it depends upon your "weltanschauung"...the believer could just as easily say the non-believer or skeptic is already biased. lol...

Edited by Gummug, 22 June 2010 - 06:22 PM.

[Agent. Mulder]

czech_mate55, on 21 June 2010 - 03:35 AM, said:

No...I was with him and there was no one else there.  I even took a picture of the tree to see if anything showed up.  I didn't see anything in the picture but when I showed it to him about a week later, he recognized it and made a comment about the man.

so, his imagination?

[Agent. Mulder]

Gummug, on 22 June 2010 - 06:22 PM, said:

"well, for one, the believer is Already biased, so they would come to that conclusion. the non believer wouldnt claim a hallucination, if they experienced it they would either be a believer, or try to deduce what it was using logic first, and examining why something happened and taking all things into account. and possibly give a more down to earth explanation."

I suppose it depends upon your "weltanschauung"...the believer could just as easily say the non-believer or skeptic is already biased. lol...

no. the skeptic is just waiting to see something, then decide based on the evidence. basically neutral.
the believer sees and automatically judges what they saw (could be seen as the paranormal, or what they want to see)

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Ryegrog, on 21 June 2010 - 03:34 AM, said:

My sister died a few years before my great neice was born. When my great neice was 2 yrs. old, My nephew claimed that when she was in bed at night,
He can hear her talking and giggle and said the word grandma. Also, Animals like small children seem to have a 6th sense. When my dad died, My dog
was lying on the couch, then suddenly rose up and looked to her right starring into space. As if someone sat down next to her. My nephew had a
simular situation with his dog shortly after dad died. It is always said that when a family member dies, they hang around awhile and observe family.

Once again, kids have great imaginations. Why would you make the far fetched leap to kids talking to dead people. Don't get it.   :

[Gummug]

"no. the skeptic is just waiting to see something, then decide based on the evidence. basically neutral.
the believer sees and automatically judges what they saw (could be seen as the paranormal, or what they want to see)"

Fine. If your "decide based on the evidence" though, seems to always a priori exclude any supernatural explanation, or even the possiblity of a supernatural explanation, isn't this biased?

[Agent. Mulder]

Gummug, on 22 June 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

"no. the skeptic is just waiting to see something, then decide based on the evidence. basically neutral.
the believer sees and automatically judges what they saw (could be seen as the paranormal, or what they want to see)"

Fine. If your "decide based on the evidence" though, seems to always a priori exclude any supernatural explanation, or even the possiblity of a supernatural explanation, isn't this biased?

no, its not biased and doesnt exclude it. going with logic first, and then turning the the unknown isnt biased.
not considering loical explanations is though.

[Gummug]

"no, its not biased and doesnt exclude it. going with logic first, and then turning the the unknown isnt biased.
not considering loical explanations is though. "

I agree completely. Not considering logical explanations would be horribly, even criminally biased, perhaps. Still, I think the idea of having to define every phenomena as explainable in terms of what we currently understand about science seems to me to be stretching logic to the very limits of its ability to be stretched, to say the least.
There are so many reports of ghosts and other paranormal events...even if you concede that 99.9% of these are hoaxes, outright lies, or misunderstood natural phenomena,which they well could be, that still leaves .1 % to contend with...that would be very hard to explain in a logical framework, imo, if at all...

[crisb]

I have two that have been seeing dead people for over 3 years. The second born started seeing one man in a white 1920s style physicians jacket since before he was 3, he's now 6. He now has seen one "bone man" (have no idea what this means) one child, and another man that he insists has blood on his face. This is just on our property. He has also seen spirits at the fairgrounds, in consignment stores, at estate sales, just about everywhere. My grand-daughter, the first born began seeing the man in the white coat last summer. The youngest, age 2, spends several minutes, just talking and laughing with someone in the center closet. My daughter also had her first experience at seeing the man in the white jacket last summer. She has also channeled at the cemetery where my father is buried. I, infortunately, have only seen the shadow people. Not solidly formed but just shadows walking through our property and through the house. According to all the people that have lived here as this area was being built, say there was nothing here but range land. However, I did find out about the old house, grainery, and barn that was built some 100 years ago, at least. It was built about 3 blocks from our house. It was torn down years ago, around 1963. I've also heard that after the Sand Creek Massacure, the Native Americans went on the rampage and most of the people out here were ordered to Fort Lupton,or Brighton for their own safety. I have no idea what's going on but I do know that we all have seen strange things and have had strange happenings for years. I'm just wondering if maybe some didn't make it to safety in time or possibly we may be living on what used to be a family burial plot.

So, I completely understand those that see unusual things or have children that see dead people. I do have sympathy.  I do know what it's like, believe me.

[Gummug]

I for one believe you crisb.  

[snappydragon]

I am going back to the other forum where at least the skeptics had manners. Jeesh! I also beleive that a child should be checked if he or she is of age to supposedly not have imaginary friends and such, because the chance it could be medical, and they didn't get hlep, could be bad for them. Below that age, it's hard to say, they have alot of imagination. Alot of things are scary to them.  I am not ruling out the possibility of psychic experiences, but you allways want to check for non paranormal things first. It's just a wise idea.
If you are seeing the same things they are, that's a whole different ball game. I have heard of the fearcage thing, you should look at that, and other enviromental things, just to be on the safe side. Could be paranormal. could be something in the enviroment.

Edited by snappydragon, 25 June 2010 - 04:31 AM.