11638 replies to this topic

[Riaan]

I was recently contacted by Alewyn Raubenheimer, a fellow South African, who has just published a new theory about the Great Flood in a book called Survivors of the Great Tsunami. He based his theories on the so-called Oera Linda Book, which I in fact had never heard of before. If you are interested, you can read more about its contents on his website (here). Although I do not necessarily agree with his theories, you may find it an interesting read. The book can be purchased here.

[Abramelin]

Riaan, on 22 June 2010 - 07:41 PM, said:

I was recently contacted by Alewyn Raubenheimer, a fellow South African, who has just published a new theory about the Great Flood in a book called Survivors of the Great Tsunami. He based his theories on the so-called Oera Linda Book, which I in fact had never heard of before. If you are interested, you can read more about its contents on his website (here). Although I do not necessarily agree with his theories, you may find it an interesting read. The book can be purchased here.

OMG, the Oera Linda Bo(o)k is a known hoax.

Just go to the Wiki page about that book, and you will know.

But any Dutch person with something resembling brains could have told you long ago; the etymology portrayed in that book is simply ridiculous.

You never heard of it before?? Well. I have mentioned it many times on this site in connection with Doggerland (sorry Spartan...).

[Riaan]

Abramelin, on 22 June 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

OMG, the Oera Linda Bo(o)k is a known hoax.

Just go to the Wiki page about that book, and you will know.

But any Dutch person with something resembling brains could have told you long ago; the etymology portrayed in that book is simply ridiculous.

You never heard of it before?? Well. I have mentioned it many times on this site in connection with Doggerland (sorry Spartan...).

I had only a very quick look at the book, but read the Wiki page carefully. It indeed seems to be a hoax, although the author of the book evidently does not think so. Thought I'd introduce you to the book. That's all.

[Abramelin]

Riaan, on 22 June 2010 - 09:52 PM, said:

I had only a very quick look at the book, but read the Wiki page carefully. It indeed seems to be a hoax, although the author of the book evidently does not think so. Thought I'd introduce you to the book. That's all.

I am convinced many here will know about that book already.

Maybe it only seems to be a hoax if your don't speak Dutch or Frisian, but if you do, you will know.

It's like a clever 12 years old kid concocted the story..

[The_Spartan]

Abramelin, on 22 June 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

You never heard of it before?? Well. I have mentioned it many times on this site in connection with Doggerland (sorry Spartan...).

[TheSearcher]

Riaan, on 22 June 2010 - 09:52 PM, said:

I had only a very quick look at the book, but read the Wiki page carefully. It indeed seems to be a hoax, although the author of the book evidently does not think so. Thought I'd introduce you to the book. That's all.

Mate, I'm sorry to say that Abramelin is quite correct, it is a hoax. The etymology is totally wrong for the claims it makes, it uses wordings that are too contemporary to be correct, etc.
Most dutch speakers know this to be a hoax, with the exception of some neo-nazi groups, that use it for their own propaganda.

Sorry mate, but if the research is based on it, it's just based on a hoax and subsequently worthless.

[ShadowSot]

Time line of events for that book throw of the known history by a good deal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2100_BC

[TheSearcher]

ShadowSot, on 24 June 2010 - 04:08 PM, said:

Time line of events for that book throw of the known history by a good deal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2100_BC

If it were not a hoax...but alas.....

[Alewyn]

TheSearcher, on 23 June 2010 - 07:58 AM, said:

Mate, I'm sorry to say that Abramelin is quite correct, it is a hoax. The etymology is totally wrong for the claims it makes, it uses wordings that are too contemporary to be correct, etc.
Most dutch speakers know this to be a hoax, with the exception of some neo-nazi groups, that use it for their own propaganda.

Sorry mate, but if the research is based on it, it's just based on a hoax and subsequently worthless.

Many, but not all, are convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Oera Linda Book is a hoax. Nevertheless, please consider the following few randomly selected facts (of many):

1. The Oera Linda Book(OLB)(1867) claims that their civilization in Europe was destroyed in 2193 BC by a massive natural disaster. The book mentions earthquakes, volcanic activity, fires, tsunamis, etc. that lasted for 3 years. Archaeologists and historians agree that the Old Kingdom in Egypt came to an end in ca. 2200 BC; the Harrapan (Indus Valley) civilization came to an end in ca.2200 BC; The Hongsan Culture in China came to an end in ca 2200 BC and Professor Harvey Weiss stated that the Akkadian Empire in Syria was destroyed in 2193 BC. In addition, the last Mammoths on Wrangle Island in the Arctic became extinct at the same time. In fact, carbon dating on one of the Mammoths indicated that the animal died about 2192 BC. Non of this information was available 140 years ago when the OLB surfaced.(Except possibly for the Old Kingdom in Egypt)

2. The OLB stated that before the disaster "the sun rose higher". This would indicate that they were closer to the equator. The book of Enoch (Noah's Great-Grandfather) stated that the "pillar of the earth shook from its foundation" and "the earth was violently shaken and became inclined" Various ancient scribes described the unmistakable effects of a cosmic impact.(Ipuwer, Neferti, etc.) Very prominent scientists such as Dr. Dallas Abbott et al have actually found evidence of this in 2005 (Please check the "Burckle Crater")

3. Professor Timo Niroma , on his website “The Third Millennium BC¬ (3100-2100 BC)” states “During the years 2200-2100 BC  the saltines of the soil rose markedly, possibly because of sea floods” at the time of the destruction of Akkadian Sumer (present day Syria). He also states:
“ Mesopotamia and other above-mentioned places were not the only victims of the 2200 BC event. As far away as in China, the Hongsan culture fell in pieces at this same time. This, if not anything else, is an indication of the mighty character of the event, and bolsters us to consider it as global. ”

4. The OLB tells the story of a "Sea King" (not a monarch) by the name of Minnos that settled on Crete in ca. 1630 BC. In the 19th century nobody even knew that a "Minoan Civilization" ever existed. Archaeological work during the 20th century confirms everything that the OLB stated regarding the Middle Minoan period - even the date of ca 1600 BC. This date was only established in the latter half of the 20th century.

5. The OLB mentions the destruction of Troy in 1188 BC. In the beginning of the 21st century (140 years after the OLB) archaeologists concluded that Hellenic Troy (Troy VIIa) was destroyed in ca 1188 BC. In the 19th century Troy was still regarded as a myth.

6. The OLB claims that “Nef Tunis” from Frisia founded Tyre (in Lebanon) in 2000 BC. The Bible refers to tyre as having been “inhabited by seafaring men” and “inhabited from across the sea” (Afrikaans Translation)

7. The OLB described how some of them was expelled from Athens in ca 1550 BC and fled to India. This ties up exactly with the Avesta and Rig-Veda scriptures(Dating back to ca. 1500 BC). This also exactly the time when iron working commenced in India, (and the Caste System!)

8. During the 1980's archaeologists discovered naturally mummified Caucasian bodies in the Tarim Basin in Western China. They dated these mummies to ca 1500 BC.

I have tested the OLB against genetics, linguistics, theology, volcanism, climatology and many other modern discoveries and information that was not available in the 19th century and in every case the OLB was vindicated. Even ancient scribes such as Homer, Tacitus, Herodotus, Arrian, Ovid, Josephus and others support the claims made in the OLB.

The OLB was essentially declared a hoax by linguists who felt that the language was too modern. That is about the same as saying that the King James Bible is a hoax because the Jews did not speak Victorian English. The original translator of the OLB, Dr. Ottema, was a very prominent linguist and he believed to the day of his death that the book was authentic.

The Dutch rejects the book (understandably) because it was abused by the Nazis and, still today, by neo-Nazi groups and others; but then, so is the Bible. It still does not detract from the historical value of the book.

People like to quote Wikipedia as the “ultimate truth”. Wiki can, however, only publish what is out there at any given time.
Remember, the Plate Tectonics Theory was ridiculed for 70 years before it was accepted and it took 10 years before scientists accepted that the dinosaurs could have been wiped out by an asteroid impact. There was a time when people thought they did the world a favour by burning anybody who said that the world was not flat. The list goes on.

I am convinced that we are talking about a hoax here but it is definitely not the Oera Linda Book and yes, you guessed correctly, I am the idiot that wrote “Survivors of the Great Tsunami”

[DieChecker]

Alewyn. Thanks for posting that. I guess the book is perhaps worth a read. If it is real, then where did its information come from? Atlantis??

Be welcome to these Forums!

[Mattshark]

Just to point something out (this is not the only error, but it is a glaring one

Quote

3. Professor Timo Niroma , on his website “The Third Millennium BC¬ (3100-2100 BC)” states “During the years 2200-2100 BC the saltines of the soil rose markedly, possibly because of sea floods” at the time of the destruction of Akkadian Sumer (present day Syria). He also states:
“ Mesopotamia and other above-mentioned places were not the only victims of the 2200 BC event. As far away as in China, the Hongsan culture fell in pieces at this same time. This, if not anything else, is an indication of the mighty character of the event, and bolsters us to consider it as global. ”

Timo Niroma is not a professor, he has no academic link outside of sending e-mails. He is a pseudo-scientist.

Also, Troy was found in 1865 and was inhabited and attack at least 4 times between the 13th and 10th century BCE, not to mention all they other time because that is just Troy VII.

Edited by Mattshark, 26 June 2010 - 07:58 AM.

[Alewyn]

Mattshark, on 26 June 2010 - 07:55 AM, said:

Just to point something out (this is not the only error, but it is a glaring one

Timo Niroma is not a professor, he has no academic link outside of sending e-mails. He is a pseudo-scientist.

Also, Troy was found in 1865 and was inhabited and attack at least 4 times between the 13th and 10th century BCE, not to mention all they other time because that is just Troy VII.

Thanks for your info on Timo Niroma. I accept it.
As for your comment on Troy, it seems to me that you are confirming my view. You mention the founding of Troy while I am talking about the destruction of Troy VIIa. Our "trusty" Wikipedia says the following:
"The city of the archaeological layer known as Troy VIIa, which has been dated on the basis of pottery styles to the mid- to late-13th century BC, lasted for about a century, with a destruction layer at ca. 1190 BC. It is the most often-cited candidate for the Troy of Homer and is believed to correspond to Assuwan Wilusa known from Hittite sources dating to the period of roughly 1300–1250 BC."
My info was based on Archaeological sources but in this case Wikipedia says exactly the same.
Have a nice day.

[Mattshark]

Alewyn, on 26 June 2010 - 10:31 AM, said:

Thanks for your info on Timo Niroma. I accept it.
As for your comment on Troy, it seems to me that you are confirming my view. You mention the founding of Troy while I am talking about the destruction of Troy VIIa. Our "trusty" Wikipedia says the following:
"The city of the archaeological layer known as Troy VIIa, which has been dated on the basis of pottery styles to the mid- to late-13th century BC, lasted for about a century, with a destruction layer at ca. 1190 BC. It is the most often-cited candidate for the Troy of Homer and is believed to correspond to Assuwan Wilusa known from Hittite sources dating to the period of roughly 1300–1250 BC."
My info was based on Archaeological sources but in this case Wikipedia says exactly the same.
Have a nice day.

But you are not accepting that is was found in 1865 and even with just a rough idea it woudl be easy to guess one of the dates for Troy VII and there is over 4 centuries to work with.

Just to add for point 1, not a chance, Europe with "earthquakes, volcanic activity, fires, tsunamis, etc. that lasted for 3 years" I find that a little unlikely and if it had happened as it would have left considerable geological evidence across Europe.

Edited by Mattshark, 26 June 2010 - 10:41 AM.

[Alewyn]

DieChecker, on 26 June 2010 - 07:46 AM, said:

Alewyn. Thanks for posting that. I guess the book is perhaps worth a read. If it is real, then where did its information come from? Atlantis??

Be welcome to these Forums!

Hi "DieCheker",
Thanks for welcoming me.

I am afraid there is nothing mystical about the old Oera Linda Book although it does contain some very short references to some of their old myths which I ignored. They were definitely not some superhuman race although their history is very fascinating. In fact, I don't believe we can understand European and world history unless we accept the OLB as a credible document. My research was based on accepted scientific and historical facts and especially information that was not available in the 19th century. I must admit that I indulged in some "deductive" speculation here and there but that was mostly outside the Oera Linda book eg. the"Sea People", "Barbarians", "Hyksos", etc. I would like to believe that in such instances I provided sufficient back-up information. All my sources are stated very clearly so anyone can verify it. The Bibliography is 3 pages; I left out the less important ones.

I am amazed that the Dutch chose to deny this important part of their history and decided that everything only started with the Roman occupation. The old chronicles, however, deals extensively with the history of the greater Europe and the world at large and therefore should not be confined to the Netherlands only.
Regards,
Alewyn

[SlimJim22]

Hi and welcome Alewyn, I have discussed the OLB with Abramelin in regrads to Doggerland and I was not totally convinced of the fradulence of it, if that is the right word. The paper dated from 1865 but this does not outlaw the possibility of it being copied from an earlier text on my thinking.

However, what it contains could have been deduced from historical if not archeological records of the time. For the destroyed nation, we should look to Thera but there is a small chance it refers to the much older Black sea flood also. from the Black sea region we find the most ancinet proto writing in the Tartaria tablets. From this region survivors could have dispersed along the rivers particularly the Danube and settled much of Europe becoming the la Tene among other cultures. A culture I found in the region of Holland was the Swifterbank but they did not have writing to my knowledge, still the possibility of a semi secretive culture living a naturalistic way of life drawing a line of descent along way back in time.

Here is a link that I like that discusses the sea or river people not just in Europe but across the world and is one explanation for many of the myths that survive today.

http://mermaid-willi...d.blogspot.com/