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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#10081    Abramelin

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:18 AM

View PostKnul, on 09 February 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

What's wrong with the English translation by Sandbach ?  You make a mess of your translation.

Well, Puzz's translation is more of a poetic interpretation.

But I agree we should refrain from doing that and stay as close as possible to the original text.

My translation:
"Don't walk too hastily for here lies Adela."

Sandbach's:
"Tread softly, for here lies Adela.""

Sandbach's translation is also a poetic interpretation, and not close to the original text.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 February 2012 - 11:29 AM.


#10082    Knul

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:20 AM

View PostScepticus, on 08 February 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

Maybe avatars?

When they [be]came blue, Wr-alda ate her/them with his breath.

When Frya was born, our mother stood naked and blue, unprotected from the rays of the sun.

:D


It must have been cold ! Or Frya was a smurf.


#10083    Abramelin

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:23 AM

View PostKnul, on 09 February 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

It only shows that Cornelis over de Linden overestimated himself like he did in a letter to the Province of Friesland.

Yeah. To me it's like I, as the amateur I am, would correct a Rolf Bremmer : http://en.wikipedia....ki/Rolf_Bremmer

I would only contradict such a professor/learned man if I was a 100 % sure he was wrong.

And how could I be a 100% sure he was wrong? Because I knew where the word really came from.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 February 2012 - 11:31 AM.


#10084    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:09 PM

View PostKnul, on 09 February 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

What's wrong with the English translation by Sandbach ?  You make a mess of your translation.
Why?
It's the exact same words in Frisian as the OLB has, if that's a messed up translation....

Mine is not poetic either Abe, it does not use any words that are not the same as the Frisian dictionary, yours is poetic if anyone's is, because you have come out of the OLB Frisian to get 'don't walk' when it is really 'never run/step'.

I stayed EXACTLY to the original text Abe, what else do you want?

NE=NEVER
HLAP=RUN,STEP

The only one changing it into a more poetic version is YOU.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#10085    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:12 PM

View PostKnul, on 09 February 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

What's wrong with the English translation by Sandbach ?  You make a mess of your translation.
What's wrong with it?
It's not what the Fryan words say, if they translate into Frisian. Like Abe said, it's too poetic.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#10086    Abramelin

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 09 February 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Why?
It's the exact same words in Frisian as the OLB has, if that's a messed up translation....

Mine is not poetic either Abe, it does not use any words that are not the same as the Frisian dictionary, yours is poetic if anyone's is, because you have come out of the OLB Frisian to get 'don't walk' when it is really 'never run/step'.

I stayed EXACTLY to the original text Abe, what else do you want?

NE=NEVER
HLAP=RUN,STEP

The only one changing it into a more poetic version is YOU.

No Puzz, 'hlapa' should not be translated with 'run' but with 'lopen'. And 'lopen' = to walk.

Oh, and you did not stay EXACTLY to the original text. You added words and changed the composition of the sentence.

I must add that the etymology of "hlapa" is about running, true.

But it's obvious that the translation of "hlapa" is simply the Dutch for 'to walk': lopen.

And why add "hastily"? Running can be seen as walking hastily, right?

If "hlapa" meant 'to run' in this sentence there would have been no need to add "hastily" (hastich/haastig).

+++++

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela

Dutch (=almost exactly the same):
Nie loop niet (= double negative) te haastig want hier leit Adela.

English:
Don't walk too hastily for here lies Adela.

++

You also added 'step' for 'hlapa'. That would be better, but why introduce 'step' when we have 'lopen', or 'to walk'?


.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 February 2012 - 02:27 PM.


#10087    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:38 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 February 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

No Puzz, 'hlapa' should not be translated with 'run' but with 'lopen'. And 'lopen' = to walk.

Oh, and you did not stay EXACTLY to the original text. You added words and changed the composition of the sentence.

I must add that the etymology of "hlapa" is about running, true.

But it's obvious that the translation of "hlapa" is simply the Dutch for 'to walk': lopen.

And why add "hastily"? Running can be seen as walking hastily, right?

If "hlapa" meant 'to run' in this sentence there would have been no need to add "hastily" (hastich/haastig).

+++++

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lid Adela

Dutch (=almost exactly the same):
Nie loop niet (= double negative) te haastig want hier leit Adela.

English:
Don't walk too hastily for here lies Adela.

++

You also added 'step' for 'hlapa'. That would be better, but why introduce 'step' when we have 'lopen', or 'to walk'?


.
I don't give a toss if hlapa goes to lopen in Dutch which then means to walk, the word means in FRISIAN run/step. You can be told not to STEP hastily, which might be walk but it is not walk, it's step or run according to the Frisian dictionary.
THAT is why mine is more correct and true to the original meaning.

The word is not lopen, the word is hlapa.

Ne is never in Frisian, whatever you want to it to be in Dutch is not correct imo.


Quote

But it's obvious that the translation of "hlapa" is simply the Dutch for 'to walk': lopen.

English has a word too, lope, lope along, lope (lp)
intr.v. loped, loping, lopes
To run or ride with a steady, easy gait.


I could stick in this meaning too, it's not OBVIOUS at all that hlapa is simply Dutch for 'to walk' and then place that meaning in. I could say oh, it's obvious it means lope, which it does but changing it to walk is not staying true to the text imo.

That's the whole problem with the translation, it's being taken out of Frisian and replaced with Dutch meaning, or English, it is changing the whole text.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#10088    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:44 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 February 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

No Puzz, 'hlapa' should not be translated with 'run' but with 'lopen'. And 'lopen' = to walk.

Oh, and you did not stay EXACTLY to the original text. You added words and changed the composition of the sentence.

I didn't add any words and where exactly is the composition changed?

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela.

TREAD SOFTLY, FOR HERE LIES ADELA

Never run nor hurry as here lies Adela

---------------

Even closer then would be:

Never run/step not too forceful because/as here layed Adela.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry I sound a bit cross, I've had a long day.

Edited by The Puzzler, 09 February 2012 - 02:53 PM.

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#10089    Abramelin

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:46 PM

not, n-, n-â-we-t 70 und häufiger?, ne 150 und häufiger?

Like I said: the sentence uses a double negative.

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela.


http://www.koeblerge...h/ne-afries.pdf


hlâp-a 22, afries., st. V. (7)=red. V.: nhd. laufen, gehen, rinnen, treten; ne. run
(V.), go (V.), step (V.); Vw.: s. gad-er-, tæ-, up-; Hw.: vgl. got. *hlaupan, an.
hlaupa, ae. hléapan, anfrk. loupan, as. *hlôpan?, ahd. loufan; Q.: E, H, F, R, W,
S; E.: germ. *hlaupan, st. V., laufen; idg. *køelp- (1), *køelb-, *kø¢p-, *kø¢b-,
*klup-, *klub-, V., stolpern, traben, Pokorny 630?; W.: nfries. ljeappen, V., laufen;
W.: saterl. lopa, V., laufen; L.: Hh 44b, Rh 818a

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-H.pdf

In case you don't know: Saterlands is a Frisian dialect.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 February 2012 - 02:47 PM.


#10090    Abramelin

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:51 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 09 February 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

I didn't add any words and where exactly is the composition changed?

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela.

TREAD SOFTLY, FOR HERE LIES ADELA

Never run nor hurry as here lies Adela

---------------

Even closer then would be:

Never run/step not too forceful because/as here layed Adela.

You introduce "hurry" when "hasty" or "hastily" would be much closer to the original.

You introduce 'never' but 'ne - navt' is nothing but a double negative.

never, n-â (1) 4, n-â-m-mê-r 2
http://www.koeblerge...h/ne-afries.pdf

And 'forceful'??

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Edited by Abramelin, 09 February 2012 - 02:56 PM.


#10091    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:11 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 February 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

You introduce "hurry" when "hasty" or "hastily" would be much closer to the original.

You introduce 'never' but 'ne - navt' is nothing but a double negative.

never, n-â (1) 4, n-â-m-mê-r 2
http://www.koeblerge...h/ne-afries.pdf

And 'forceful'??

.
1. Because I used haste first, it translated into Frisian to: hõ-st-a 1 und häufiger?, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. hasten, eilen; ne. hurry (V.); E.: s.
hâ-st (1); L.: Hh 40a
I chose hurry but yes hasten would have been fine, IF the OLB word was HASTA, which it is NOT.

OK, I meant 'forcible' (not forceful) because the word is HASTICH in the OLB.

hõ-st-ich 1, afries., Adj.: nhd. gewaltsam; ne. forcible; Hw.: vgl. mnd. haestigen;
Q.: Jur; E.: s. hõ-st-e, *ich; W.: saterl. hastich, Adj., gewaltsam; L.: Hh 40a, Rh
797b

Hastich is not hasty, it's forcible.

2.Never equates to the first word: NE

navt/naut is a word.

NAUT in the Frisian Dictionary takes you to:
n-â-we-t 70 und häufiger?, n-ô-we-t, n-â-u-t, n-â-t (3), afries., Pron., Adv.: nhd.
nichts, nicht; ne. nothing, not;

nothing, not.


Never step not forcibly - makes sense, double negative or not, you might forget how close Frisian is to English. "Never go not far" = never go far away

Edited by The Puzzler, 09 February 2012 - 03:12 PM.

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#10092    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:18 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 February 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

not, n-, n--we-t 70 und hufiger?, ne 150 und hufiger?

Like I said: the sentence uses a double negative.

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lid Adela.


http://www.koeblerge...h/ne-afries.pdf


hlp-a 22, afries., st. V. (7)=red. V.: nhd. laufen, gehen, rinnen, treten; ne. run
(V.), go (V.), step (V.); Vw.: s. gad-er-, t-, up-; Hw.: vgl. got. *hlaupan, an.
hlaupa, ae. hlapan, anfrk. loupan, as. *hlpan?, ahd. loufan; Q.: E, H, F, R, W,
S; E.: germ. *hlaupan, st. V., laufen; idg. *kelp- (1), *kelb-, *kp-, *kb-,
*klup-, *klub-, V., stolpern, traben, Pokorny 630?; W.: nfries. ljeappen, V., laufen;
W.: saterl. lopa, V., laufen; L.: Hh 44b, Rh 818a

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-H.pdf

In case you don't know: Saterlands is a Frisian dialect.

.
I do know that.

WHat's it matter if lopa is there, we know it's a word that is related to lopa and lopen and lope, but the word is HLAPA, that is not lopen or lope. Like I said I can easily slip in "To run or ride with a steady, easy gait" where hlapa is because that's what lopa/lope means, just like lopen means walk to you but that is not the word and Dutch NOR English is the language of the OLB.

And that is my whole point.

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#10093    Abramelin

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:21 PM

Double negative or not? But it is, and that is why I use it in my translation.

And the double negative is formed by two Old Frisian words meaning NOT: NE and NEWET/NEVT.


#10094    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:24 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 February 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

Double negative or not? But it is, and that is why I use it in my translation.

And the double negative is formed by two Old Frisian words meaning NOT: NE and NEWET/NEVT.

I just gave an example where I said it sounds right anyway.

I'm using never and not anyway so what's the problem.

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#10095    Abramelin

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:30 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 09 February 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

I just gave an example where I said it sounds right anyway.

I'm using never and not anyway so what's the problem.

The problem is your translation is wrong in a literal sense, not that it is wrong explaining what the sentence is all about.

Anyway, about that word "HASTICH":

You say I can't use Dutch, but then you should read this:

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...VMNW&id=ID48292

It's almost the same word - HAESTICH - , and meaning hasty, premature, fast acting, thoughtless; quick, sudden.

And one of the alternative spellings is HASTICH.

Coincidence??

.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 February 2012 - 03:44 PM.