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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#10411    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:08 AM

View PostOtharus, on 23 February 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Aha, you're right. Thanks for that. No problems with the word stupid, just assumed that the English "dumb" would be equal to the Dutch "dom" and the German "dumm".

I was thinking about the movie "dumb & dumber", about two nitwits (but I never saw it).

Lol, ok, I stand corrected.


#10412    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:21 AM

Knul mentioned "Occo Scarlensis" recently, and we have discussed the Frisian mythology he is supposed to have 'invented' though there are those who say others may have done so and claimed they had only copied these myths from this same Occo.

Because of all that it is suggested this Scarlensis (or in Dutch, "van Scarl") is the "Okke" in the beginning of the OLB ("Okke, my son"), the son of Hidde over de Linden.

What does the name mean?

Åke är ett mansnamn av varierande ursprung. De nordiska varianterna (Aake, Aage, Áki, Oke, Ocke, Ooke, Åke) anses vara en en gammal diminutivform av ett ord som betydde anfader, áki på fornnordiska eller anihho på fornhögtyska. Namnet skulle alltså kunna uttolkas som lillefar eller liknande. De frisiska varianterna (Aage, Age, Hauke, Ocke, Ocko, Oke, Okke, Okko) är smeknamn för namn som börjar på förstavelsen "Ot-", vilket betydde egendom eller rikedom på fornhögtyska.

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ke

Ake is a male name of various origins. The Scandinavian variants (Aake, Aage, Aki, Oke, Ocke, Ooke, Ake) is considered an old diminutive of a word that meant ancestor, Aki in Old Norse or anihho in Old High German. The name could thus be interpreted as "little father", "daddy" or the like. The Frisian variants (Aage, Age, Hauke, Ocke, Ocko, Oke, Okke, Okko) is the nickname for names beginning with the prefix "Ot-', which meant property or wealth in the Old High German.

If you go check the origin of the name "Okke" or Occo, Ocke and so on, than often you will read it is possibly derived from "Otto".

What else could it mean?

De naam komt waarschijnlijk van de mansnaam Okke of Ox die is afgeleid van os of stier.
The name probably comes from the male first name "Okke" or "Ox" that is derived from "ox" or "bull".


http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okswerd

So we have "daddy", "bull" and "wealth/property" as possible meanings for "Okke". "Ox/bull" as cattle was equal to "property/wealth".

======

EDIT:

An Occo in a document - see photocopy -  from 1245:

http://www.cartago.n...kla0006_001.jpg

Oldermannen en universitas van Groningen verklaren dat de weduwe Alfgerdis en Occo en Gerhardus, haar beide zoons, hebben verkocht aan het klooster te Jesse (and not "Essen" as the website says!) al hun goederen, geheten Bona Ebedingonum.

Aldermen and universtas of Groningen declare that the Alfgerdis widow and both her sons Occo and Gerhardus, have sold all their property, the Ebedingen estate, to the Jesse monastery.

Aldermans ac universitas in Groninge omnibus presentem paginam inspec-
turis salutem in domino. Cum secundum varietatem temporis statuta varientur humana
ideo provida modernorum decrevit industria, quique sui temporis ista facta describere et
ea sic perpetue memorie commandare. Unde notum esse volumus universis quod Alf-
gerdis vidua et duo filii eius Occo et Gergardus cives nostri bona ipsorum quae Jesse
habuerunt cum omnibus attinentiis suis quae bona Ebedingonum nuncupantur
conventui de Jesse pro mille et quadringentis libris vendiderunt libere et absolute.
Ne vero inde ulla ambiguitas oriatur hanc paginam sigilli nostri munimine
fecimus roborari. Nomina vero testium qui presentes erant hec sunt: Willem Hamingus,
Occo Hornecinge, Nicolaus Papa, Thidmarus, Uuddi, Remgerus aurifaber, Dodo Ebbinga
scultetus, Ado, Alaydus Lupus, Andreas Oircke, Sigebertus, dominus Jacobus, deinde Thizo, domini
Bartoldi Huginge filius, Laurencius, Henricus, Egbertus decanus, Jacobus Lupus, Alardus filius
domini Alburgis, Brundo filius domini Enonis, Herdricus de Lare, Rodolfus de Bilrebeke, Ger-
ardus Bogecinga, iuvenis Eno, Winricus domini Johannis filius et omnes aldermanni et cives
nostri et cives de Heltmen. Acta sunt hec Groninge anno domini MCCXLV, XVIII kalendas decembris.


http://www.cartago.n...nde/kla0006.xml


No, actually 2 Occo's : there's also a witness, ""Occo Hornecinge".

Not saying that one of these 2 Occos must be our OLB "Okke", but it's possible.

Hiddo was of course alive at 1256 AD, and here we read about a widow. She could have remarried, not uncommon already in those days.

++++++++++

EDIT:

The monastery is called "Jesse" in the document, but it was also spelled as "Yesse" and later as "Essen":

http://82.168.69.203... bij Haren.html

http://nl.wikipedia..../Klooster_Yesse

http://www.kloosteryesse.nl/

.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 February 2012 - 10:51 AM.


#10413    Otharus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:34 AM

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDON" / "BILDON" (statues or images) - fragment 6 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[077/22]-[079/10]: written on wall Fryasburg 1200 BC (copied 600 BC), about Athénia's decline

TOFÁRA WRDON ALLE SÉKUM BINN ÁTHÉNJA IN VSA TÁL BITHONGON
ÀFTERNÉI MOSTET IN BÉDE TÁLA SKÉN
ÀND TO LESTA ALLÉNA INTHA LANDIS TAL.

IN THA ÉROSTA JÉRA NAM THAT MANFOLK TO ÁTHÉNJA ENKEL WIVA FON VS AJN SLACHT
MEN THAT JONGKFOLK VPWOXEN MITHA MANGÉRTA THÉR LANDSÁTON NAMON THÉR ÁK FON.

THA BÁSTERA BERN THAM THÉROF KEMON
WÉRON THA SKÉNSTA ÀND SNODSTA JN WRALDA
MEN HJA WÉRON ÁK THA ÀRGSTA.
~
TO HINKANDE VR BYDE SÍDA.
TO MÁLANDE HER VM SÉDA NER VM PLÉGA
HIT NE SY THAT ET WÉRE FOR HJARA AJNE HELD.

ALSA NÁKA THÉR JETA.N STRÉL FON FRYA.S GÁST WELDANDE
WÉRE WÀRTH AL ET BVW.SPUL TO MÉNA WERKA FORWROCHTEN
ÀND NIMMÀN NE MACHT EN HUS TO BVWANDE
THÀT RUMER ÀND RIKKER WÉRE AS THÀT SINRA NÉSTUM.

THA THÁ SVME VRBASTERE STÉDJAR RIK WÉRON
THRVCH VS FÁRA ÀND THRVCH ET SULVER
THÀT THA SLÁVONA UTA SULVER.LÔNA WNNON
THÁ GVNGON HJA BUTA VPPA HELLINGA JEFTA INDA DÉLA HÉMA.

THÉR BEFTHA HÁGA WALLUM FON LÁF THA FON STÉN
BVWADON HJA HOVA MITH KESTLIK HUSARK.
ÀND VMBE BY THA WLA PRESTRUM INEN GODA HROP TO WÉSANDE
STÀLDON HJA THÉR FALSKA DROCHTEN LIKANDA ÀND VNTUCHTIGA BILDA IN
.

BY THA WLA PRESTRUM ÀND FORSTUM
WRDON THA KNÁPA ALTOMET MÁRA GÉRT AS THA TOGHATERA.
ÀND FÁKEN THRVCH RIKA JEFTA THA THRVCH WELD
FON ET PAD THÉRE DÜGED OF HLÉID
.

NÉIDAM RIKDOM BY THÀT VRBRÚDE ÀND VRBASTERDE SLACHT FÉR BOPPA DÜGED ÀND ÉRE JELDE.
SACH MÀN ALTOMET KNÁPA THAM HJARA SELVA MITH RUMA RIKA KLÁTAR SÍRADON
.
HJARA ALDRUM ÀND FÁMNA TO SKÔNDA ÀND HJARA KUNNA TO SPOT.
~
KÉMON VSA ÉNFALDA ALDERA TO ÁTHÉNJA VPPE THÉRE MÉNA ACHT
ÀND WILDON HJA THÉRVR BÁRE SÁ WARTH THER HROPEN

HARK - HARK THÉR SKIL EN SÉ.MOMMA KÉTHA.

ALSA IS ÁTHÉNJA WRDON
É.LIK EN BROKLAND ANDA HÉTE LANDA.
FOL BLODSÚGAR POGGA ÀND FENINIGA SNÁKA.
HWÉR IN NÉN MÀNNISK FON HERDE SÉDUM SIN FOT NAVT WÁGA NE MÉI.


- - - - -

Ottema p.109

Te voren werden alle zaken binnen Athene in onze taal bepleit,
naderhand moest het in beide talen geschieden,
en ten laatste alleen in de landstaal.

In de eerste jaren nam het manvolk te Athene enkel vrouwen van ons eigen geslacht,
maar het jongvolk opgewassen met de meisjes der landzaten namen daar ook van.

De basterd kinderen die daarvan kwamen,
waren de schoonste en schranderste van de wereld,
maar zij waren ook de slechtste.

Hinkende over beide zijden,
zich bekreunende noch om wet, noch om gewoonte,
tenzij dat het was voor hun eigen belang.

Alzoo lang er nog een straal van Fryas geest opwelde,
werd al de bouwstof tot gemeene werken verarbeid,
en niemand mocht een huis bouwen,
dat ruimer en rijker was als dat van zijn buurman.

Doch toen sommige verbasterde stedelingen rijk waren
door onze zeevaart en door het zilver,
dat de slaven uit de zilverlanden wonnen,
gingen zij buiten op de hellingen (der bergen) of in de dalen wonen.

Aldaar achter hooge wallen van loof of van steen,
bouwden zij hoven (paleizen) met kostbaar huisraad,
en om bij de vuile priesteren in een goeden dunk te wezen,
plaatsten zij daar op valsche goden gelijkende en ontuchtige beelden in
.

Bij de vuile priesteren en vorsten
werden soms de knapen meer begeerd, als de dochteren,
en vaak door rijke giften of door geweld
van het pad der deugd afgeleid
.

Naardien rijkdom bij het verwende en verbasterde geslacht ver boven deugd en eere gold,
zag men altemet knapen, die zich met wijde prachtige kleederen versierden
,
hunne ouders en de maagden tot schande en hunne sekse ten spot.

Kwamen onze eenvoudige ouders te Athene op de algemeene volksvergadering,
en wilden daar zich beklagen, dan werd er geroepen:

hoor, hoor, daar zal een zeegedrocht spreken.

Zoo is Athene geworden,
gelijk een moeras in de heete landen
vol bloedzuigers, padden en vergiftige slangen,
waarin geen mensch van strenge zeden zijn voet kan wagen.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.109

Formerly all the cases in Athens were pleaded in our language,
but afterwards in both languages,
and at last in the native language only.

At first the men of Athens only married women of our own race,
but the young men as they grew up with the girls of the country took them to wife.

The ba$t@rd children of this connection
were the handsomest and cleverest in the world;
but they were likewise the wickedest,

wavering between the two parties,
paying no regard to laws or customs
except where they suited their own interests.

As long as a ray of Frya's spirit existed,
all the building materials were for common use,
and no one might build a house
larger or better than his neighbours;

but when some degenerate townspeople got rich
by sea-voyages and by the silver
that their slaves got in the silver countries,
they went to live out on the hills or in the valleys.

There, behind high enclosures of trees or walls,
they built palaces with costly furniture,
and in order to remain in good odour with the nasty priests,
they placed there likenesses of false gods and unchaste statues
.

Sometimes the dirty priests and princes
wished for the boys rather than the girls,
and often led them astray from the paths of virtue
by rich presents or by force
.

Because riches were more valued by this lost and degenerate race than virtue or honour,
one sometimes saw boys dressed in splendid flowing robes
,
to the disgrace of their parents and maidens, and to the shame of their own sex.

If our simple parents came to a general assembly at Athens
and made complaints, a cry was raised,

Hear, hear! there is a sea-monster going to speak.

Such is Athens become,
like a morass in a tropical country
full of leeches, toads, and poisonous snakes,
in which no man of decent habits can set his foot.


Edited by Otharus, 23 February 2012 - 10:48 AM.


#10414    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:11 AM

Did anyone notice those 'thingies' that look like the OLB tildes in the document in my former post?

A screenshot:

ANNODOMINI_1245.jpg

http://www.cartago.n...kla0006_001.jpg

And you will see the document is full with corrections. Wouldn't it be nice if the -X- in MCCXLV was also a mistake??  :P  In that case the date would be MCCLV = 1255, the date the OLB almost got destroyed by a flood. But our Hiddo would have had serious health problems, his wife being a widow and all that...


#10415    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:27 AM

View PostOtharus, on 23 February 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDON" / "BILDON" (statues or images)

Otharus, when I read your latest posts, I have to think of this:

Iconoclastic Fury or "Beeldenstorm", 1566:

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Beeldenstorm

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 23 February 2012 - 11:31 AM.


#10416    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:42 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 February 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Did anyone notice those 'thingies' that look like the OLB tildes in the document in my former post?

A screenshot:

Attachment ANNODOMINI_1245.jpg

http://www.cartago.n...kla0006_001.jpg

And you will see the document is full with corrections. Wouldn't it be nice if the -X- in MCCXLV was also a mistake??  :P  In that case the date would be MCCLV = 1255, the date the OLB almost got destroyed by a flood. But our Hiddo would have had serious health problems, his wife being a widow and all that...

I hope someone is willing to read the document because my Latin is a 'bit' rusty.

But the next line looks quite interesting (assuming Google Translator did not make a mess out of it):

pro mille et quadringentis libris vendiderunt libere et absolute

for fourteen hundred books sold and absolutely free.

Fourteen hundred books???

.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 February 2012 - 11:43 AM.


#10417    Otharus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:45 PM

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDA" (statues or images) of "DROCHTNE" (idols or false gods) - fragment 7 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[100/02] - [101/20]: Appollanja's book; 2nd part of Formlér

EMONG FINDA.S FOLK SEND WAN.WÍSA.
THÉR THRVCH HJARA OVER.FINDINGRIKHÉD AL SA ÀRG SEND EWERDEN
THÀT HJA HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA ÀND THA INEWIDA BITJUGA
THÀT HJA THET BESTA DÉL SEND FON WR.ALDA.
THET HJARA GÁST THET BESTE DÉL IS FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST
ÀND THET WR.ALDA ALLÉNA MÉI THÀNKJA THRVCH HELPE HJAR.IS BRYN.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ .
THÀT AIDER SKEPSLE EN DÉL IS FON VVR.ALDA.S VNENDLIK WÉSA
THÀT HÀVON HJA FON VS GÁBAD.
~
MEN HJARA FALXE RÉDNE ÀND HJARA TÀMLÁSE HÁCH.FAREN HÉD
HETH RA VPPEN DWÁLWÉI BROCHT.

WÉRE HJARA GÁST WR.ALDA.S GÁST
SÁ SKOLDE WR.ALDA ÉL DVM WÉSA
IN STÉDE FON LICHT AND WIS.

HWAND HJARA GÁST SLÁVTH HIM SELVA IMMER OF VMBE SKÉNE BYLDA TO MÁKJANDE
THÉR Y ÀFTERNÉI ANBID.

~
MEN FINDAS FOLK IS EN ÀRG FOLK.
HWAND AFSKÉN THA WAN.WÍSA THÉRA. HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA
THÀT HJA DROCHTNE SEND.
SA HÀVON HJA TO FÁRA THA VN.EWIDA FALXA DROCHTNE.ESKÉPEN.
TO KÉTHANDE ALLER WÉIKES
THÀT THISSA DROCHTNE WRALDA ESKÉPEN HÀVE.
MITH AL HWAT THÉR INNE IS.
~
GÍRIGA DROCHTNE FVL NÍD ÀND TORN.
THAM ÉRATH ÀND THJANATH WILLATH WÉSA.
THRVCH THA MÀNNISKA.
THÉR BLOD ÀND OFFER WILLA ÀND SKÁT ASKJA
.
~
MEN THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA
THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA.
BÜRATH ÀND SÁMNATH ÀND GETTHATH ALDAM TOFARA DROCHTNE
THÉRER NAVT NE SEND
VMBET SELVA TO BIHALDANDE.

ALDAM BIDRÍWATH HJA MITH EN RUM EMOD.
THRVCHDAM HJA HJARA SELVA DROCHTNE WÁNE
THÉR AN NINMAN ANDERT SKELDICH NE SEND.

SEND THÉR SVME THAM HJARA RENKA FRODA ÀNDET BÁR MAKJA
ALSA WRDON HJA THRVCH HJARA RAKKERA FÀT ÀND VMBIRA LASTER VRBARNAD
ELLA MITH FÉLO STÁTSKA PLÉGUM
HJARA FALXA DROCHNE TO.N ÉRE.
MEN IN TRVTH. ALLÉNA THÉRVMBE THÀT HJA.RA NAVT SKÁDA NE SKOLDE.
~
TILTHJU VSA BERN NW WÉPNED MÜGE WÉSA TOJENST HJARA DROCHTEN LIKA LÉRE
ALSA HÁGON THA FÁNNA HJAM FON BUTA TO LÉRANDE
HWAT HÍR SKIL FOLGJA.


- - - - -

Ottema p.139

Onder Findas volk zijn wanwijzen,
die door hunne overvindingrijkheid zoo boos zijn geworden,
dat zij zich zelven wijs maken en de ingewijden doen gelooven,
dat zij het beste deel zijn van Wralda;
dat hun geest het beste deel is van Wralda’s geest,
en dat Wralda alleen kan denken door hulp van hun brein.

Dat ieder schepsel een deel is van Wralda’s oneindig wezen,
dat hebben zij van ons gestolen.

Maar hunne valsche redeneering en hunne toomelooze hoovaardigheid
heeft hen op een dwaalweg gebracht.

Ware hun geest Wraldas geest,
dan zoude Wralda heel dom wezen,
in plaats van verstandig en wijs.

Want hun geest slooft zich altijd af om schoone beelden te maken,
die zij naderhand aanbidden.


Maar Findas volk is een boos volk,
want ofschoon de wanwijzen onder hen zich zelven wijsmaken,
dat zij goden zijn,
zoo hebben zij voor de oningewijden valsche goden geschapen,
en verkondigen allerwege
dat deze afgoden de wereld geschapen hebben,
met alles wat daar in is;

gierige afgoden vol nijd en toorn,
die gediend en geëerd willen wezen,
door de menschen;
die bloed en offer willen en schatting eischen.


Maar die wanwijze valsche mannen,
die zich zelf godsdienaren of priesteren laten noemen,
beuren en zamelen en vergaderen dat alles voor afgoden,
die niet bestaan,
om het zelf te behouden.

Dat alles bedrijven zij met een ruim gemoed,
naardien zij zich zelven goden wanen,
die aan niemand antwoord schuldig zijn.

Zijn er sommigen die hunne ranken bevroeden en openbaar maken,
zoo worden zij door hunne rakkers gevat en om hunnen laster verbrand,
alles met vele statelijke plegtigheden
ter eere der valsche goden.
Maar in trouwe, alleen opdat zij hun niet schaden zouden.

Opdat onze kinderen gewapend mogen wezen tegen hunne afgodische leer,
zoo behooren de maagden hen te doen van buiten leeren,
wat hier zal volgen.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.139

Among Finda's people there are false teachers [pseudo-wise],
who, by their over-inventiveness, have become so wicked
that they make themselves and their adherents believe
that they are the best part of Wr-alda,
that their spirit is the best part of Wr-alda's spirit,
and that Wr-alda can only think by the help of their brains.

That every creature is a part of Wr-alda's eternal being,
that they have stolen from us;

but their false reasoning and ungovernable pride
have brought them on the road to ruin [in a labyrynth].

If their spirit was Wr-alda's spirit,
then Wr-alda would be very stupid,
instead of being sensible and wise;

for their spirit labours to create beautiful statues,
which they afterwards worship.


Finda's people are a wicked people,
for although they [the pseudo-wise] presumptuously pretend among themselves
that they are gods,
they proclaim the unconsecrated false gods,
and declare everywhere
that these idols created the world
and all that therein is—

greedy idols, full of envy and anger,
who desire to be served and honoured
by the people,
and who exact [demand] bloody sacrifices and rich offerings;


but these presumptuous and false men,
who call themselves God's servants and priests,
receive and collect everything in the name of the idols
that have no real existence,
for their own benefit.

They do all this with an easy conscience,
as they think themselves gods
not answerable to any one.

If there are some who discover their tricks and expose them,
they hand them over to the executioners to be burnt for their calumnies,
with solemn ceremonies
in honour of the false gods;
but really in order to save themselves.

In order that our children may be protected against their idolatrous doctrine,
the duty of the maidens is to make them learn by heart
the following:


Edited by Otharus, 23 February 2012 - 12:47 PM.


#10418    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:08 PM

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..." (King James Bible, Exodus 20:4,5).

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." —Isaiah 42:8

"Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made." —Isaiah 2:8


http://www.lovethetr...dol_worship.htm

:w00t:


+++++++++++

On the Germanic tribes, the Roman historian Tacitus writes the following: "They don't consider it mighty enough for the Heavens to depict Gods on walls or to display them in some human shape.".

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Iconoclasm

.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 February 2012 - 01:27 PM.


#10419    Otharus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:30 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 February 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God" (King James Bible, Exodus 20:4,5).

"I am the LORD: that is my name" —Isaiah 42:8
Interestingly, nowhere in the OLB is it suggested that Wralda would speak to people in any way, it is not even suggested Wralda is anything humanlike.

It is typical for the sort of priests that were so much hated by the OLB-Fryans, to suggest they knew what "God" would think or say.

According to the OLB, Wralda is all (the whole), and humans are only a part of it.

Edited by Otharus, 23 February 2012 - 01:32 PM.


#10420    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:39 PM

View PostOtharus, on 23 February 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Interestingly, nowhere in the OLB is it suggested that Wralda would speak to people in any way, it is not even suggested Wralda is anything humanlike.

It is typical for the sort of priests that were so much hated by the OLB-Fryans, to suggest they knew what "God" would think or say.

According to the OLB, Wralda is all (the whole), and humans are only a part of it.

Yes, and what many Christians object to is the Catholic way of 'creating' saints, holy people, and the whole circus around it.

Btw, these Fryans did indeed suggest they 'knew' what Wralda wanted and desired; it's all over the OLB.


#10421    Otharus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:53 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 February 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

Btw, these Fryans did indeed suggest they 'knew' what Wralda wanted and desired; it's all over the OLB.
You mean things like:

[012/10] Tex Frya's
5. FJUWER THINGA SEND TO JVWE NOT JÉVEN. MITH NÁMA. LÔFT. WÉTER. LÁND ÀND FJUR.
MEN WR.ALDA WIL THÉR ALLÉNA BÍSITTAR OF WÉSA.


It's merely suggested that Wralda controls the elements (air, water, land, fire).

Nothing like "I am your god, you have to serve and obey me."

Or can you give an example of what you mean?

Edited by Otharus, 23 February 2012 - 01:54 PM.


#10422    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:58 PM

View PostOtharus, on 23 February 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

You mean things like:

[012/10] Tex Frya's
5. FJUWER THINGA SEND TO JVWE NOT JVEN. MITH NMA. LFT. WTER. LND ND FJUR.
MEN WR.ALDA WIL THR ALLNA BSITTAR OF WSA.


It's merely suggested that Wralda controls the elements (air, water, land, fire).

Nothing like "I am your god, you have to serve and obey me."

Or can you give an example of what you mean?

I don't mean to say Wralda speaks anywhere, only that people assume that Wralda approves of this or doesn't appove of that, or that something is not according to the will of Wralda... as though they know what Wralda wants and so on.


#10423    Otharus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:01 PM

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDA" (statues or images) of "DROCHTNE" (idols or false gods) - fragment 8 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[114/04]-[115/08]: Frethorik's book, ca. 300 BC; another bad time

IN MIN JGED HRD.IK GRDWIRD ALOMME.
RGE TID KM
RGE TID WAS KVMEN
~
FRYA HD.VS LTEN.
HJRA WK.FMKES HDE HJU ABEFTA HALDEN.
HWAND DROCHTEN-LIKANDA BYLDA WRON BINNA VSA LND.PLA FVNDEN.
~
IK BRNDE FON NYS.GR. VMBE THI BYLDA TO BISJAN.
~
IN VSA BRT STROMPELE EN LD.FMKE TO THA HUSA UTA IN.
IMMER TO KTHANDE VR RGE TID.
~
IK GRDE HJA LING.SDE.
HJU STRIK MI OMME KIN TO.

NW WRD.IK DRIST
ND FRJE JEF HJU MI RGE TID ND THA BYLDA RIS WISA WILDE.
HJU LAKTE GODLIK
ND BROCHT MI VPPER BURCH.
~
EN GRVA.MN.FRJE MY JEF IK AL LSA ND SKRVA KV.
N SID.IK.
THN MOST ROST TO GA ND LRA SIDER
OWERS NE MI.T JOW NAVT WYSEN NI WRDE.
~
DYSTIK GVNG IK BI THA SKRIWER LRA.
~
ACHT JR LTTER HRD.IK
VSA BURCHFM HDE HORDOM BIDRYVEN
ND SVME BURCH.HRA HDON VRRD PLGAD MITH THA MG.

ND FLO MNNISKA WRON VP HJARA SDA.
VVRAL KM TWISPALT.
THR WRON BERN THR VPSTANDON AJEN HJARA ELDRUM.
~
INNA GLUPPA WRDON THA FRODA MNNISKA MORTH.
THET ALDE FMK THR ELLA BR MKADE
WRTH DD FVNDEN IN.EN GRUPE.

MIN TT THR RJUCHTER WRE
WILDE HJA WRKEN H.
NACHTIS WRHT.ER IN SIN HUS VRMORTH.

THRJU JR LTTER WR THENE MG BS. SVNDER STRID.
THA SAXMNNA WRON FROME ND FROD BILYWEN.
NI THAM FLJUCHTON ALLE GODE MNNISKA.


- - - - -

Ottema p.159

In mijne jeugd hoorde ik klachten alomme:
booze tijd kwam;
booze tijd was gekomen;

Frya had ons verlaten;
zij had hare waakmeisjes terug gehouden;
want gedrochtelijke (afgods)beelden waren binnen onze landpalen gevonden.

Ik brande van nieuwsgierigheid om die beelden te zien.

In onze buurt strompelde een oud vrouwtje de huizen uit en in,
altijd roepende over de booze tijd.
Ik draaide haar op zijde.
Zij streek mij om de kin.

Nu werd ik vrijmoedig
en vroeg haar of zij mij de booze tijd en de beelden eens wilde toonen.
Zij lachte goedaardig,
en bragt mij op de burgt.

Een grijsaard vroeg mij of ik al lezen en schrijven kon.
Neen, zeide ik.
Dan moet gij eerst heengaan en leeren, zeide hij,
anders mag het u niet getoond worden.

Dagelijks ging ik bij den schrijver leeren.

Acht jaren later hoorde ik,
dat onze burgtmaagd ontucht had bedreven
en dat sommige burgtheeren verraad gepleegd hadden met den Magy.

En vele menschen waren op hunne zijde.
Overal kwam tweespalt.
Er waren kinderen, die opstonden tegen hunne ouders.

In t geheim werden de brave menschen vermoord.
Het oude vrouwtje, dat alles openbaar maakte,
werd dood gevonden in een gruppel.

Mijn vader, die rechter was,
wilde haar gewroken hebben.
Bij nacht werd hij in zijn huis vermoord.

Drie jaren later was de Magy meester zonder strijd.
De Saxmannen waren vroom en braaf gebleven.
Naar hen vluchtten alle goede menschen.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.159

In my youth I heard complaints on all sides.
The bad time was coming;
the bad time did come

Frya had forsaken us.
She withheld from us all her watch-maidens,
because monstrous idolatrous images had been found within our landmarks.

I burnt with curiosity to see those images.

In our neighbourhood a little old woman tottered in and out of the houses,
always calling out about the bad times.
I came to her;
she stroked my chin;

then I became bold,
and asked her if she would show me the bad times and the images.
She laughed good-naturedly,
and took me to the citadel.

An old man asked me if I could read and write.
No, I said.
Then you must first go and learn, he replied,
otherwise it may not be shown to you.

I went daily to the writer and learnt.

Eight years afterwards I heard
that our Burgtmaagd had been unchaste,
and that some of the burgtheeren had committed treason with the Magy,

and many people took their part.
Everywhere disputes arose.
There were children rebelling against their parents;

good people were secretly murdered.
The little old woman who had brought everything to light
was found dead in a ditch.

My father, who was a judge,
would have her avenged.
He was murdered in the night in his own house.

Three years after that the Magy was master without any resistance.
The Saxmen had remained religious and upright.
All the good people fled to them.



#10424    Otharus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:03 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 February 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

I don't mean to say Wralda speaks anywhere, only that people assume that Wralda approves of this or doesn't appove of that, or that something is not according to the will of Wralda... as though they know what Wralda wants and so on.
Here's two OLB-fragments about Wralda.

The first initially did not make sense to me, and I didn't like it,
until I realised that those 'books' have to be ment metaphorically.

The second fragment makes a lot of sense and is one of my favorite fragments.
I think it pretty much sums up how the Fryans related themselves to Wralda.

1) From: Form-lére (Apol-lánja) p.[099/07]

WR.ALDA IS THJU WISHÉD
ÀND THA ÉWA THÉR HJU TAVLIKT HETH.
SEND THA BOKA WÉRUT WY LÉRA MÜGE.
ÀND THÉR NIS NÉNE WISHÉD TO FINDANDE
NER TO GARJANDE BUTA THAM.


2) From: Other part of Form-lér (Apol-lánja) p.[103/05]

WY FRYA.S BERN SEND FORSKINSLA THRVCH WR.ALDA.S LÉVA.
~
BY T.ANFANG MIN ÀND BLÁT.
THACH IMMER WÀRTHANDE ÀND NÁKANDE TO FVLKVMENLIKHÉD.
SVNDER Á SA GOD TO WRDA AS WR.ALDA SELVA.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
VSA GÁST NIS NAVT WR.ALDAS GÁST.
HI IS THÉRFON ALLÉNA EN AFSKINSLE.
~
THA WR.ALDA VS SKOP HETH ER VS IN THRVCH SINE WISHÉD.
BRYN. SINTÚGA. HÜGJA ÀND FÉLO GODA AINSKIPA LÉNAD.
HÍRMÉI MUGON WY SINA SKEPSELA ÀND SIN ÉWA BITRACHTA.
THÉROF MÜGON WY LÉRA ÀND THÉRVR MÜGON WY RÉDA.
ELLA ÀND ALLÉNA TO VS AIN HELD.
HÉDE WR.ALDA VS NÉNE SINNA JÉVEN
SA NE SKOLDE WY NARNE OF NÉTA
ÀND WY SKOLDE JETA REDDALASER AS EN SÉ.KWALE WÉSA.
THÉR FORTH DRYVEN WÀRTH.
THRVCH EBBE ÀND THRVCH FLOD.


Edited by Otharus, 23 February 2012 - 05:04 PM.


#10425    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:07 PM

View PostKnul, on 17 February 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

But you were the pirate captain, which is nothing less than a sea warlord.

Well, like I already said: nothing but some hooligan who owned a boat and was able to pay some buddies to row it.

And you won't believe what I am now going to tell you, and it's quite silly to say the least, lol.

Anyway, I was browsing through a Dutch book I have about the Phoenicians, and I noticed that I had scribbled that name, "Reshitskal Tsellordo" in a margin, but with a difference: it was spelled "ReshitsGal Tsellordo".

Then I did a bit of OLB-style of hacking words to pieces, and tried to Google this: "Resh Its Gal Tsel Lordo/Ordo".

Heh, and then I found this:

The founder of the sect was Anan ben David, a member of the princely family of the Resh Galuta ("Head of the Exile," or "Exilarch"). Who lived in Babylon about 130 years before Saadia was born.

http://www.chabad.or...Saadia-Gaon.htm

Resh Galuta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exilarch

Then:

The Hebrew word 'tsel' means "shade" or "shadow."
http://arabicclass.w...ess.com/?s=tsel

The Phoenicians and ancient Hebrews didn't use letters for vocals, so the ordo could also have meant ardo or arda.

Ard: a descendant of Benjamin
http://concordances.org/hebrew/714.htm
http://topicalbible.org/a/ardites.htm

OK, so "Reshitsgal Tsellordo" is maybe this: "Resh Galuta Tsel Ard", or, Shadow of the Benjamins/Ardites, Head of the Exiles."

Bwahahaha !! Cool or what??