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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#10786    Otharus

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:35 PM

 Otharus, on 24 March 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

OLB: Toads (POGA) blow up themselves, frogs (FORSKA) say "work, work".
In fact, the fragment is interesting, because it points to the solution of a mystery that 'official' etymology never explained:

The etymology of "pochen" (dutch for 'to bluff'), the origin of the word 'poker'.

[031/18]
POGA BLSATH HJARA SELVA VPPA.
ND HJA NE MGATH NAWET THN KRUPA.
FORSKA HROPATH WRK - WRK.
ND HJA NE DVATH NAWET AS HIPPA ND KLUCHT MKJA.


Oldfrisian dictionary Wiarda (1786):
Pogge - Frosch (frog)
(no frosk or forsk)

Oldfrisian dictionary Hettema (1832):
Pogge - kikvorsch (frog)
(no frosk or forsk)

Oldfrisian dictionary Richthofen (1840):
(no frosk, forsk or pogge)

Newfrisian dictionary (1896):
Froask, frosk - frog
Pod, podde - padde (toad)
Pogge, pge - as podde, west-Dutch for frog

Westfrisian dictionary (1984):
Pog - 1) bladder or bag that precedes the birth of a calf. Compare 'voetpog' en 'waterpog'. 2) bag under the eyes; "wat kroigt ze toch lilleke pogge onder d'r ouge".
Voetpog - membrane filled with liquid and slime that brakes after the 'waterpog' at the birth of a calf.
Waterpog - membrane filled with water that precedes the 'voetpog' at the birth of a calf.

It seems as if the word "pog" is no longer used in the modern NW-European languages (maybe still in some dialects):

frog - english
kikker, kikvors - dutch
frosch - german
frosk - norwegian, icelandic
Frer - danish
groda - swedish
froask, kikkert - newfrisian

toad - english
krte - german
krt - icelandic
pad - dutch
padde - danish, norwegian
padda - swedish
podde - newfrisian


#10787    Knul

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:50 PM

 Otharus, on 24 March 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

In fact, the fragment is interesting, because it points to the solution of a mystery that 'official' etymology never explained:

The etymology of "pochen" (dutch for 'to bluff'), the origin of the word 'poker'.

[031/18]
POGA BLÉSATH HJARA SELVA VPPA.
ÀND HJA NE MÜGATH NAWET THÀN KRUPA.
FORSKA HROPATH WÀRK - WÀRK.
ÀND HJA NE DVATH NAWET AS HIPPA ÀND KLUCHT MÁKJA.


Oldfrisian dictionary Wiarda (1786):
Pogge - Frosch (frog)
(no frosk or forsk)

Oldfrisian dictionary Hettema (1832):
Pogge - kikvorsch (frog)
(no frosk or forsk)

Oldfrisian dictionary Richthofen (1840):
(no frosk, forsk or pogge)

Newfrisian dictionary (1896):
Froask, frosk - frog
Pod, podde - padde (toad)
Pogge, pôge - as podde, west-Dutch for frog

Westfrisian dictionary (1984):
Pog - 1) bladder or bag that precedes the birth of a calf. Compare 'voetpog' en 'waterpog'. 2) bag under the eyes; "wat kroigt ze toch lilleke pogge onder d'r ouge".
Voetpog - membrane filled with liquid and slime that brakes after the 'waterpog' at the birth of a calf.
Waterpog - membrane filled with water that precedes the 'voetpog' at the birth of a calf.

It seems as if the word "pog" is no longer used in the modern NW-European languages (maybe still in some dialects):

frog - english
kikker, kikvors - dutch
frosch - german
frosk - norwegian, icelandic
Frøer - danish
groda - swedish
froask, kikkert - newfrisian

toad - english
kröte - german
kört - icelandic
pad - dutch
padde - danish, norwegian
padda - swedish
podde - newfrisian



Over de uitspraak van het Landfriesch,

door

Dr. J.H. HALBERTSMA.

Aan Dr. L.A. te Winkel.


Nl. vorsch, oud Eng. frosk, heden verbasterd in frog, Sf. frósk, Lf. froásk;
bron: L.A. te Winkel en J.A. van Dijk(red.), De Taalgids, Tijdschrift tot uitbreiding van de kennis derNederlandsche taal, Negende jaargang. pag. 23. C. van der Post Jr., Utrecht 1867.

So Halbertsma knew the word from Stadfries (Sf) and Landfries (Lf).

Edited by Knul, 24 March 2012 - 12:54 PM.


#10788    Abramelin

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:58 PM

 Knul, on 24 March 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Over de uitspraak van het Landfriesch,

door

Dr. J.H. HALBERTSMA.

Aan Dr. L.A. te Winkel.


Nl. vorsch, oud Eng. frosk, heden verbasterd in frog, Sf. frsk, Lf. frosk;
bron: L.A. te Winkel en J.A. van Dijk(red.), De Taalgids, Tijdschrift tot uitbreiding van de kennis derNederlandsche taal, Negende jaargang. pag. 23. C. van der Post Jr., Utrecht 1867.

So Halbertsma knew the word from Stadfries (Sf) and Landfries (Lf).

Did Halbertsma also mention "POGA" or a word similar to that?


#10789    Knul

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:58 PM

 The Puzzler, on 24 March 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

Also, why would they? Rome was built by troops (Far Krekalanders) who had returned from Troy - it was never Frisian.

Rome was built by the Etruscans.


#10790    Knul

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:14 PM

  •  Abramelin, on 24 March 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

    Did Halbertsma also mention "POGA" or a word similar to that?


    The word might be related to boha (=Dutch poeha - pochen, snoeven, druk- of dikdoenerij). OLB Page 239: Nu zal men zien, waarop al dat boha uitgeloopen is. - Hjud skil maen sjan hwêr vppa al thaet bâ hêi ûthlâpen is.

    Een niet meer bekend woord in het Oera Linda Boek is boha (= boeha, meer bekend als poeha - drukdoenerij, drukte om niets, ophef, enz.) in de zin: Nu zal men zien, waarop al dat boha uitgeloopen is. Het woord wordt niet door J.G. Ottema vertaald of uitgelegd. Het komt voor in het verouderde spreekwoord 'Het is beter, eens een groot boha te maken, dan alle dagen met gevouwen handen te liggen' (ca. 1860). Het woord boha brengt ons in elk geval bij Joost Halbertsma. Op 10 juli 1822 schreef hij in Vaderlandsche Letteroefeningen: 'Het Vriesche geyen stemt in klank en beteekenis overeen met het IJslandsche gèyen, blaffen, uitlagchen, bespotten; en, wat hier alles afdoet, de Zuidhoekers gebruiken het in die beteekenis: te Warns althans zegt men nog, wat he'st' ien gegey! 'wat hebt gij een gepoch, gesnork of gelach! wat maakt gij daar een boha over!' Joost Halbertsma zal wel niet de enige zijn geweest, die het woord boha gebruikte, maar diens relatie met de volkstaal in het Oera Linda Boek valt wel zeker te leggen.

    poeha
    ` poe - ha , poe` ha de -woord (mannelijk) & het -woord ophef, drukte
    Gevonden op http://www.woorden.org/woord/poeha
  • poeha
    bombarie, drukte, ophef
    Gevonden op http://www.woorden-boek.nl/woord/poeha
  • poeha
    1) Ambras 2) Bluf 3) Bombari 4) Bombarie 5) Dikdoenerij 6) Drukte 7) Drukte om niets 8) Grootspraak 9) Koele drukte 10) Koude drukte 11) Leven 12) Omhaal 13) Omslag 14) Onnodige drukte 15) Ophef ...
    Gevonden op http://www.mijnwoord...lwoordenboek/po


Edited by Knul, 24 March 2012 - 01:29 PM.


#10791    Otharus

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:16 PM

 Knul, on 24 March 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Nl. vorsch, old Eng. frosk, currently bastardised in frog, Sf. frósk, Lf. froásk
...
So Halbertsma knew the word from Stadfries (Sf) and Landfries (Lf).
AHA! Now you're contradicting yourself.

You have stated before that Halbertsma loved old-English and he obviously loved Frisian.
He did not think much of Dutch (Hollandic or Netherlandic).

In your quote, Halbertsma mentions varieties in language for "frog":

Old-english: frosk, bastardised into frog
City-Frisian: frósk
Land-Frisian: froásk
(not mentioned; German: frosch)
Dutch: vorsch

Note that (19th century) Dutch ('Netherlandic') is the only variety where R is placed after O!

Also note that the Oldfrisian dictionaries from 1786, 1832 and 1840 did not include "frosk" or "forsk".

Now look at the spelling in OLB: "FORSKA".

This spelling suggests that the Dutch spelling is more authentic than Old-english, German and (both city- and land-) Frisian.

This (using Knul's own 'logic') is proof against Halbertsma's supposed involvement in the supposed creation of the OLB.

Edited by Otharus, 24 March 2012 - 01:26 PM.


#10792    Otharus

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:38 PM

 Knul, on 24 March 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

The word might be related to boha
Could be, but the OLB spelling "BÁHÉI" does not suggest this.

POG = bag, bladder
POGA, POGGA = blow up, bluff (dutch: pochen), exaggerate
POHA, BOHA = exaggeration

Most probably related too: "pokken" (pox).

Edited by Otharus, 24 March 2012 - 02:00 PM.


#10793    Abramelin

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

 Otharus, on 24 March 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Could be, but it the OLB spelling "BHI" does not suggest this.

POG = bag, bladder
POGA, POGGA = blow up, bluff (dutch: pochen), exaggerate
POHA, BOHA = exaggeration

Most probably related too: "pokken" (pox).

pock
O.E. pocc "pustule," from P.Gmc. *puh(h)- "to swell up, blow up" (cf. Du. pok, Low Ger. poche), from PIE root *bhu- "to swell, to blow."

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

The OLB "POGA" is a frog. I had to think of the Latin "bucca" or the Spanish "boca" meaning 'mouth'. A wide mouth (think about this: "to have a big mouth" or to bluff) is one of the typical characteristics of a frog (and of a toad).


#10794    Otharus

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:59 PM

 Abramelin, on 24 March 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

The OLB "POGA" is a frog.
So what would be the difference between POGA (in other fragment spelled as POGGA) and FORSKA?

IMO it makes more sense that POGA means toads (padden) here.

Edited by Otharus, 24 March 2012 - 02:07 PM.


#10795    Abramelin

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 02:04 PM

 Otharus, on 24 March 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

So what would be the difference between POGA (in other fragment spelled as POGGA) and a FORSKA?

Sandbach used "toad", not "frog" for his translation of POGA.

Poga blsath hjara selva vppa, aend hja ne mgath nawet than krupa.
The toad blows himself out, but he can only crawl.


And that is actually toad behaviour: a frog will jump off when threatened, a toad will inflate itself because it can't jump like a frog and is quite slow.

So POGA = toad, FORSKA = frog ('Du: 'vors').


#10796    Otharus

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 02:59 PM

 Otharus, on 24 March 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

You have stated before that Halbertsma loved old-English and he obviously loved Frisian.
He did not think much of Dutch (Hollandic or Netherlandic).
...
Now look at the spelling in OLB: "FORSKA".

This spelling suggests that the Dutch spelling is more authentic than Old-english, German and (both city- and land-) Frisian.

This (using Knul's own 'logic') is proof against Halbertsma's supposed involvement in the supposed creation of the OLB.
No! Don't tell, Knul, let us guess...

Over de Linden and Stadermann will have changed FROSKA into FORSKA?

:w00t:


#10797    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:48 PM

 Knul, on 24 March 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Rome was built by the Etruscans.
Well I mean in the OLB. Why confuse things more than they are already? It says that a troop of Far Krekalanders from Troy came and nestled in and built Rome.

"The agony and the irony, they're killing me"
Flagpole Sitta - Harvey Danger

#10798    Abramelin

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 04:14 PM

 The Puzzler, on 24 March 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Well I mean in the OLB. Why confuse things more than they are already? It says that a troop of Far Krekalanders from Troy came and nestled in and built Rome.

Herodotus already said the Etruscans came from Lydia:

Posted Image

And genetics has finally proven him right:

Origins of the Etruscans: Was Herodotus right?
http://www.nytimes.c....1.5127788.html

The enigma of Italy's ancient Etruscans is finally unravelled
http://www.guardian....taly.johnhooper

Discussion here:

http://www.usmessage...-etruscans.html


#10799    Knul

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 04:31 PM

 Otharus, on 24 March 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

AHA! Now you're contradicting yourself.

You have stated before that Halbertsma loved old-English and he obviously loved Frisian.
He did not think much of Dutch (Hollandic or Netherlandic).

In your quote, Halbertsma mentions varieties in language for "frog":

Old-english: frosk, bastardised into frog
City-Frisian: frósk
Land-Frisian: froásk
(not mentioned; German: frosch)
Dutch: vorsch

Note that (19th century) Dutch ('Netherlandic') is the only variety where R is placed after O!

Also note that the Oldfrisian dictionaries from 1786, 1832 and 1840 did not include "frosk" or "forsk".

Now look at the spelling in OLB: "FORSKA".

This spelling suggests that the Dutch spelling is more authentic than Old-english, German and (both city- and land-) Frisian.

This (using Knul's own 'logic') is proof against Halbertsma's supposed involvement in the supposed creation of the OLB.

I told you before that Halbertsma wrote the OLB in DUTCH and then tranlated it into Oldfrisian using both Dutch and Frisian words and expresions. No contradiction at all. By the way pod, podde, pogge and poge are modern Frisian words for Dutch pad..That the Dutch spelling would be more authentic is purely nonsens. Did you ever hear about the liquidae l and r ?

Edited by Knul, 24 March 2012 - 04:37 PM.


#10800    Otharus

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 05:26 PM

 Knul, on 24 March 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Halbertsma wrote the OLB in DUTCH and then tranlated it into Oldfrisian using both Dutch and Frisian words and expresions.
Following your train of thoughts, I imagine Halbertsma translating his Dutch version into (a reconstruction of) Oldfrisian.

You have argued before that he was a Frisian nationalist who loved Old-english.

Now why would he spell FORSK (like Dutch 'vorsch') and not FROSK, as in Frisian and Old-english?

There are many more examples in the OLB where words are more similar to Dutch, when an obvious Frisian version was also available. Within your 'theory', this does not make sense at all.